Foundation for leaving cert.

Heart Break Kid

Hi,

So long story short I did foundation Irish and foundation maths(did ord course but scared on the day) for leaving certificate.

That was 9 years ago.

Since then I have been working FT for 5 years and PT for 4. I'm a expectant graduate of a level 8 BSc degree with an expect avg 2.1 or high 2.2. (59-63 range)

I've been looking at jobs in a few places and one example was a bank who require minnium ordinary passes in these subjects + my relevent degree.

My degree involves a decent ammount of financial understanding and hefty volume of work in relation to statistics and SPSS and research.

I know these jobs specifically ask about leaving cert results and however they only ask for a copy of your highest value education results which if the chance arose I'd present my degree results.

My worry is that I'd be automatically removed from the selection process if i tell them I did foundation and I was wondering if I should lie and try and fob the question off or hope for the best and tell the truth and hope they give me a chance.

Any advice or recommendations if i should just say yes i passed or no i failed but i got a 2.1/2.2?

Stheno

Include your degree results, if you get the results you expect, that's an impressive achievement

livedadream

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Hi,

So long story short I did foundation Irish and foundation maths(did ord course but scared on the day) for leaving certificate.

That was 9 years ago.

Since then I have been working FT for 5 years and PT for 4. I'm a expectant graduate of a level 8 BSc degree with an expect avg 2.1 or high 2.2. (59-63 range)

I've been looking at jobs in a few places and one example was a bank who require minnium ordinary passes in these subjects + my relevent degree.

My degree involves a decent ammount of financial understanding and hefty volume of work in relation to statistics and SPSS and research.

I know these jobs specifically ask about leaving cert results and however they only ask for a copy of your highest value education results which if the chance arose I'd present my degree results.

My worry is that I'd be automatically removed from the selection process if i tell them I did foundation and I was wondering if I should lie and try and fob the question off or hope for the best and tell the truth and hope they give me a chance.

Any advice or recommendations if i should just say yes i passed or no i failed but i got a 2.1/2.2?

Firstly dont lie, never lie, better to not get a job honestly than spend your time working there panicking you'll be found out.

The truth is you could be automatically removed thats just the way it is.

however not all companies screen like that.

what you need to think about is, am i capable of doing the job? you dont mention what you degree is in. Did you do foundation or ordinary level because you were not capable of Higher or because you are stronger in other areas.

you did pass so just said you did the subjects leave out higher, ordinary or foundation and just give your BSC marks, ive never come across a company that asks for leaving cert results or subjects from adults with degrees or MSc's before.

the harsh truth is, if you did foundation maths etc then you need to be prepared that you may not get past the screening process for a Bank.

Heart Break Kid

That you need to think about is, am i capable of doing the job? you dont mention what you degree is in. Did you do foundation or ordinary level because you were not capable of Higher or because you are stronger in other areas.

Without a doubt I definitely feel capable of doing the role. Its a Business/Marketing degree

I've never come across a company that asks for leaving cert results or subjects from adults with degrees or MSc's before.

A lot of firms I've looked at don't care but I do know its a question they ask you at the first stages for any role with this firm and they either ask for a transcript of your highest educational results.

Did you do foundation or ordinary level because you were not capable of Higher or because you are stronger in other area

Just got scared on the day, figured nuts, just drop down, foundation was the minimum accepted by the Guards at the time and it was what I was aiming for so many years ago.

thisistough

Would it be an option for you to do the LC ordinary level maths paper? You can sit the paper as an external candidate, it might take some of the worry out of the job hunt?

StupidLikeAFox

It might not be a popular answer but I would try blag my way through it. I would put down that you passed the leaving cert and have a copy of my degree ready as thats what they are looking for. Say you have no idea where your leaving cert actually is, and if they really press for it (which is highly unlikely) just bow out and say you found another job or something.

It would be stupid to lie about experience or degree results as you will most definitely be found out. But after all the work you have put in since then your leaving cert that you sat 9 years ago is so insignificant that I would be completely comfortable in leaving it out of the equation. They are unlikely to care about it too btw, that requirement is generally just a copy and paste job

PhoenixParker

Given you've a degree now that more then covers what's covered in LC maths I'd either lie on your CV or just leave your LC off altogether. If for some crazy reason they ask for a copy of your official leaving cert results, hand the cert over without comment. If questioned, you made a mistake and got your results wrong. It was 9 years ago so it's very unlikely it matters to anyone beyond being a screening question for people who've no experience.

With 9 years experience and a degree, your LC is irrelevant.

seamus

You're nine years in the workplace and have a degree, you don't even need to state whether you did a leaving cert. Leave it off altogether. Give the name of the school and the years you were there, nothing more.

Something like;

Leaving Cert: Gonzaga College, Dublin. 2000 - 2006.

Treat all job specs as suggested qualifications, not absolute ones.

livedadream

can you elaborate on the leaving cert results request a bit more it might help clarify things:

is it a form where they ask for your results by subject?

ie: Subject, Grade, Level?

or do they ask you to tick a box saying leaving cert?

or do you have to put in the level, i dont understand why they would ask for the subject, results and the level if they dont want to cert itself.

if you have to give your most recent qualification then do as the poster above says

Leaving Cert: Gonzaga College, Dublin. 2000 - 2006.

this is industry standard.

if i came across a CV of someone out of school for 10 years i would be very amused by them putting their leaving cert subjects and results and level on the page.

Heart Break Kid

"The Minimum Education for entry is 5 Passes at Leaving Certificate to include a pass in English and Math’s at Ordinary or Honours Level-Confirmation of this will be sought if successful for the role."

I also know they ask if "Do you have a minimum of a pass at ordinary English and Maths "particular question on the phone stage.

In a second bullet point they also requirea business related BA/BSc seperately.

As it stands I just leave it on my cv as

"Leaving Certificate: School Name period attended."

Otherwise its completely irrelevant to anything I've done.

As for repeating ordinary maths, not a chance Ive since been looking at Master programmes and going back to the LC isnt an option.

I was thinking of simply just lieing and getting my foot in.

PCX

I would still apply for the job even though you don't have the Maths at Ordinary level.

It is normal in these processes that there is discretion with regards to the minimum spec that they have listed (in my experience). Although how much probably varies on the organisation and the seniority of the hiring manager.

I have gone for a job in the past and got it when I didn't have all of the minimum qualifications listed. At least one other applicant I know of did. I guess they took account of other qualifications and experience that I had and decided that they compensated and put me ahead.

I wouldn't volunteer my LC grades until asked but at that stage I would be honest. If you lie they might offer you the job and ask you to hand in your notice to your current employer before they have completed their background checks etc. They could then pull the plug at any stage before or after you start with them due to the fact that you lied. That'd be too big a risk for me.

A financial services company I worked for in the past used an external background checking company (who were very thorough!) and I had to submit all of my college and school certs.

Meteoric

I know in the company I work for a person was announced as hired to our department but then it didn't happen as they had said they had a qualification that they didn't. Having it had no bearing on them getting the job, or so we were told, but when there was proof they had lied them getting the job was no longer an option even though the department manager wanted to hire them. Maybe you could in application say you have a leaving cert (true) and at interview if it comes up say what you actually have. Even if the employer says something in the job description that earlier education is a minimum requirement, if you have higher qualifications they are more important, just don't lie about something you can easily be caught out in, I would think.

PhoenixParker

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

As for repeating ordinary maths, not a chance Ive since been looking at Master programmes and going back to the LC isnt an option.

Just a note because I think you might be over estimating the involvement level of sitting ordinary maths. You'd just have to apply as an external candidate for one subject. Think you have til April 29th this year to do it for June. All you'd need is the fee and sign off from a school to say you can sit the exam there (or you can use a designated external centre in Dublin).

You don't have to go back to school or anything more complicated then fill in two forms and spend a few hours looking over the syllabus.

livedadream

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

"The Minimum Education for entry is 5 Passes at Leaving Certificate to include a pass in English and Math’s at Ordinary or Honours Level-Confirmation of this will be sought if successful for the role."

I also know they ask if "Do you have a minimum of a pass at ordinary English and Maths "particular question on the phone stage.

In a second bullet point they also requirea business related BA/BSc seperately.

As it stands I just leave it on my cv as

"Leaving Certificate: School Name period attended."

Otherwise its completely irrelevant to anything I've done.

As for repeating ordinary maths, not a chance Ive since been looking at Master programmes and going back to the LC isnt an option.

I was thinking of simply just lieing and getting my foot in.

if they ask the question and you lie and they find out, you will be sacked.

are you sure its doesnt say something like The Minimum Education for entry is 5 Passes at Leaving Certificate to include a pass in English and Math’s at Ordinary or Honours Level-Confirmation of this will be sought if successful for the role- or equivalent?

Heart Break Kid

livedadream wrote: »

are you sure its doesnt say something like The Minimum Education for entry is 5 Passes at Leaving Certificate to include a pass in English and Math’s at Ordinary or Honours Level-Confirmation of this will be sought if successful for the role- or equivalent?

Came across another role and unsure how to answer it

"Do you hold 5 passes in Ordinary Level Leaving Certificate subjects, including Maths and English or equivalent qualification in another jurisdiction? "

Could equivalent also mean higher level such as a degree? Its rather fustrating.

RedemptionZ

OP I repeated ordinary maths on its own before and honestly it's very easy to get at least a D on it. I'm talking less than a month to study, although obviously I think doing it gradually over a longer period of time would be easier, but in general there's very little work if all you want is a pass. If you're finding it hard to find jobs with foundation then it may be worth it.

If you look at past papers you'd probably find yourself being able to get 20 maybe 30% already, just add in a small bit of work and you'd be laughing.

I do find it bizarre that you're being questioned about LC results 10 years on.

livedadream

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Came across another role and unsure how to answer it

"Do you hold 5 passes in Ordinary Level Leaving Certificate subjects, including Maths and English or equivalent qualification in another jurisdiction? "

Could equivalent also mean higher level such as a degree? Its rather fustrating.

yes, the leaving cert is FETAC/QQI level 5 your degree is level 7 minimum hons degree is level 8.
Masters is level 9.