Where now for Antrim hurlers?

cms88

What are the Antrim hurlers to do now? Manager gone after less than 6 months. Disaster of a league campaign. They've gone from being probably the strongest of the second tier teams to maybe 5th behind Offaly, Kerry, Westmeath etc

Has this been coming for a while though? 2014 and 2015 they won no game in the league, made little to no impact in the championship since 2010 when they beat Dublin. Their underage teams have taken some big beatings the last few years also.

On the other hand less than two weeks ago they had yet another team make the club finals and only in 2012 were champions. Added in a few intermediate and junior titles. Also of course they made the U21 final not so long ago.

Whos at fault here? The county board? The GAA? Or is it the players?

armaghlad

cms88 wrote: »

What are the Antrim hurlers to do now? Manager gone after less than 6 months. Disaster of a league campaign. They've gone from being probably the strongest of the second tier teams to maybe 5th behind Offaly, Kerry, Westmeath etc

Has this been coming for a while though? 2014 and 2015 they won no game in the league, made little to no impact in the championship since 2010 when they beat Dublin. Their underage teams have taken some big beatings the last few years also.

On the other hand less than two weeks ago they had yet another team make the club finals and only in 2012 were champions. Added in a few intermediate and junior titles. Also of course they made the U21 final not so long ago.

Whos at fault here? The county board? The GAA? Or is it the players?

I'm an outsider looking in but I'd say it's a combination of factors.

Firstly there is a strong, healthy club scene in Antrim. With this comes rivalries that begin to impact on the county team negatively (Loughgiel/Cushendall I think but stand to be corrected). Players don't take the county jersey seriously as has been seen with the recent betting scandal. Playing for Antrim imo isn't really seen as an honour, or it is at least tainted, when you have certain individuals who are only there for the free gear, ego etc.

Secondly the GAA. If they can pump x amount of millions of €€€s into Dublin (a county that was always strong anyway) and create the power house monster that they now have, why can't they do it in Ireland's second city, in a county where IT IS ACTUALLY NEEDED. You look at the size of Belfast and the lack of clubs is worrying. Apart from a handful they're all from West Belfast.

Finally there was something of a coup recently in Antrim and there has been a lot of talk around this new county board actually putting words into action. They've done so with the "resignation" of the hurling boss so it shows they are actually serious compared to the laissez faire attitude of the previous crowd. Antrim footballers aren't a bad bunch and seem to be quietly getting their act together in Division 4 having won all their games and achieved promotion. When you compare the investment football gets v hurling in the county that is no mean feat. Maybe if the county board stopped "spoilling" the hurlers there might actually be a change in attitude.

The raw ingredients are there in Antrim, they've clubs capable of winning AIs, it's a case of changing the culture of inter county hurling back into an honorary, disciplined accolade rather than a wee gravy train to massage egos

CrabRevolution

I know Antrim's population is massive, but wouldn't a huge number of those be unionist?

I expect people will make noise that we only need to reach out to them and before you know it we'll have Sandy Row Carsons GAA club, but that's a very naive way of handwaving the huge hurdle they face in harnessing their large population.

armaghlad

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I know Antrim's population is massive, but wouldn't a huge number of those be unionist?

I expect people will make noise that we only need to reach out to them and before you know it we'll have Sandy Row Carsons GAA club, but that's a very naive way of handwaving the huge hurdle they face in harnessing their large population.

That's a whole different ball game and shouldn't just be confined to Antrim GAA to tackle. The other 5 county boards should also have to make more efforts in that regard. Antrim GAA has been poorly administered and even forgetting the Unionist population; they still have huge numbers that aren't being catered for properly (north Belfast)

LeinsterDub

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I know Antrim's population is massive, but wouldn't a huge number of those be unionist?

I expect people will make noise that we only need to reach out to them and before you know it we'll have Sandy Row Carsons GAA club, but that's a very naive way of handwaving the huge hurdle they face in harnessing their large population.

To truly reach out to the unionist population you'd need to drop the flag and anthem at the minimum. Also consider renaming a number of clubs, trophys and grounds

CrabRevolution

LeinsterDub wrote: »

To truly reach out to the unionist population you'd need to drop the flag and anthem at the minimum. Also consider renaming a number of clubs, trophys and grounds

I'd imagine even if that did happen the number who'd change their minds would be minimal.

Kristopherus

LeinsterDub wrote: »

To truly reach out to the unionist population you'd need to drop the flag and anthem at the minimum. Also consider renaming a number of clubs, trophys and grounds

You're deluded if you think will have any effect on the loyalists/unionists. Reaching out to anything the GAA does is not in their vocabulary. That, unfortunately, is the reality of life up North.

armaghlad

Kristopherus wrote: »

You're deluded if you think will have any effect on the loyalists/unionists. Reaching out to anything the GAA does is not in their vocabulary. That, unfortunately, is the reality of life up North.

That's an unfair comment imo. I think there is a large section of mainly middle class "small u" Unionists who would be put off by certain trappings within the GAA but would otherwise be open to taking part. I think some concerted effort should be put into encouraging them to play our games and if it means losing the tricolour and anthem then so be it; I'd be all in favour for that if it meant another few thousand kids playing and enjoying our games.

cms88

So his reason this time is because he wasn't getting free gear. If thats what his biggest problem is then i think they could do without him

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0405/779664-watson-dissollousined-with-antrim-hurling-set-up/

emc2

cms88 wrote: »

So his reason this time is because he wasn't getting free gear. If thats what his biggest problem is then i think they could do without him

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0405/779664-watson-dissollousined-with-antrim-hurling-set-up/

In fairness to him I think the point he's trying to make is if they can't organise a couple of gearbags and gear how are the gonna start to manage anything else. As you mentioned a big club rivalery up there so the last thing you want is lads heading to training with club gear on. It's about getting the basics right and building from there. If the county board(s) can't be bother then what message does that give the players?

Orizio

cms88 wrote: »

So his reason this time is because he wasn't getting free gear. If thats what his biggest problem is then i think they could do without him

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0405/779664-watson-dissollousined-with-antrim-hurling-set-up/

...did you actually read what he said?

Dyr

I've often wondered if the lack of nearby rivals at county level hinders them, hence the intense club rivalry.

Mehapoy

I think what they need is to move to Leinster lock stock and barrel at underage, club, college, they have great potential but need it harnessed by proper competition at all levels...

cms88

Orizio wrote: »

...did you actually read what he said?

Yes i did

Orizio

cms88 wrote: »

Yes i did

Read it again with your glasses on then, he is clearly talking about the lack of financial support not given to the set up as a whole.

DuffleBag

cms88 wrote: »

Yes i did

Are you for real? His last words even say:

"I don't like complaining about it, because then people say, 'all you want is a tracksuit', but it's not. We want support."

Thick

DellyBelly

Hurling is dying a death I believe bar a few of the stronger counties. To make it more appealing I believe we need to create an Ulster team and a Connaught team (bar Galway) .I know it won't go down with tradionalists of the game but I think given time and resources it would give a great boost to hurling. If you had a pool of talent from the likes of Antrim, Down and Derry for example I think they could be competitive in a few years time and I also think the people in the provence would get behind them. There is nothing like success to harness support.

armaghlad

DellyBelly wrote: »

Hurling is dying a death I believe bar a few of the stronger counties. To make it more appealing I believe we need to create an Ulster team and a Connaught team (bar Galway) .I know it won't go down with tradionalists of the game but I think given time and resources it would give a great boost to hurling. If you had a pool of talent from the likes of Antrim, Down and Derry for example I think they could be competitive in a few years time and I also think the people in the provence would get behind them. There is nothing like success to harness support.

Antrim is a strong hurling county (at club level) with proper league infrastructure.

In Derry and Down you've probably less than 6 or 7 clubs in both. Same goes for the other Ulster counties. Hurling is just not popular enough. Creating an Ulster team would just be papering over the cracks. I don't think players would buy into it either. Antrim hurling is in a bad way, but look at Cavan, they don't even field a team. If you ask me where the Ulster council's priorities should lie, it would be with the latter. Ultimately their job is to promote the games, not give a county board preferential treatment because the senior team has slipped down the past number of years.

LeinsterDub

DellyBelly wrote: »

Hurling is dying a death

1/1/1887 First gaa hurling match played
2/1/1887 First declaration of "Hurling is dying a death"

HanaleiJ5N

DellyBelly wrote: »

Hurling is dying a death I believe bar a few of the stronger counties. To make it more appealing I believe we need to create an Ulster team and a Connaught team (bar Galway) .I know it won't go down with tradionalists of the game but I think given time and resources it would give a great boost to hurling. If you had a pool of talent from the likes of Antrim, Down and Derry for example I think they could be competitive in a few years time and I also think the people in the provence would get behind them. There is nothing like success to harness support.

A Connacht (bar Galway) team would be mid tier Ring Cup standard at most while an Ulster team would absolute best be maybe somewhere around the present level of Wexford and Offaly, at worst a strong Ring Cup team.

People often float this suggestion as though increasing the playing pool will automatically make result is strong competitive regions.

The reason the top 9/10 counties are stronger than most is because they have a large number of clubs, almost all GAA clubs in those counties play hurling, more players at club level means more competition means higher standards means a better standard of player.

The weakest counties are weak because hurling is very much a minority sport in those counties. Sometimes only about half a county's clubs play hurling, some counties only have between three and a dozen hurling clubs. With playing numbers that low, players from those counties will never reach the levels of players in counties where hurling is not a minority sport.

Which is why amalgamating clusters of smaller counties just completely misses the point. All you're doing is creating a larger pool of players whose hurling upbringing occurred in a county with low playing numbers and lower competitiveness and standards.

The amalgamations would never get off the ground because they would be a logistical mess (where to train, etc.) and they would not be all that more competitive, they would definitely not be strong McCarthy cup teams which means the support would be minimal at best, merely consisting of players/managements close friends/family and a small few mad fanatics.

Only way weaker counties will improve is if more clubs are created, more football-only clubs go dual, get young people playing the games and keep it up for about a decade. Increase the playing pool and increase the standards and competitiveness of a young player's hurling upbringing.

Way easier said than done of course, but that's the only real solution. Amalgamations would merely paper over the cracks without actually improving things at all at grass roots level.

cms88

Orizio wrote: »

Read it again with your glasses on then, he is clearly talking about the lack of financial support not given to the set up as a whole.

no