Minimum age stated in job ad

languagenerd

Can a shop state a minimum age in a job ad? A clothes shop I pass regularly has a sign looking for shop assistant that says "MUST HAVE FLUENT ENGLISH AND BE OVER 25".

I've seen ads for jobs involving driving say similar because the insurance only covers those aged 25+, but surely you can't openly discriminate by age for a shop assistant role?

(For clarity, I'm not planning to do anything about this, it just annoys me when I see it!)

GM228

languagenerd wrote: »

Can a shop state a minimum age in a job ad? A clothes shop I pass regularly has a sign looking for shop assistant that says "MUST HAVE FLUENT ENGLISH AND BE OVER 25".

I've seen ads for jobs involving driving say similar because the insurance only covers those aged 25+, but surely you can't openly discriminate by age for a shop assistant role?

(For clarity, I'm not planning to do anything about this, it just annoys me when I see it!)

Yes it falls under discrimination on age grounds.

10.—(1) A person shall not publish or display, or cause to be published or displayed, an advertisement which relates to employment and which—

(a) indicates an intention to discriminate, or

(b) might reasonably be understood as indicating such an intention.

Shelflife

Afaik they cant openly discriminate by age. But many do discretely as it would be economically unsound not to do so (in the insurance costs in the case you mentioned)

Last year we wanted someone to work in the off licence, you legally have to 18 to serve alcohol but we werent allowed to put over 18s only in the ad.

So we had to waste our and the applicants time and money letting a 17yr apply for a job that legally they couldnt do.

GM228

Shelflife wrote: »

Last year we wanted someone to work in the off licence, you legally have to 18 to serve alcohol but we werent allowed to put over 18s only in the ad.

So we had to waste our and the applicants time and money letting a 17yr apply for a job that legally they couldnt do.

You can advertise 18 in that case!

(3) Nothing in this section relates to an advertisement which, or to the extent to which it, specifies a requirement, restriction or other matter which relates to employment and which it would not be unlawful for the employer in question to impose, having regard to any other provision of this Part or of Part III or Part IV .

Shelflife

GM228 wrote: »

You can advertise 18 in that case!

Fas or whatever they are called now , refused to put the age condition into the ad on the grounds of age discrimination.

JimsAlterEgo

Shelflife wrote: »

Afaik they cant openly discriminate by age. But many do discretely as it would be economically unsound not to do so (in the insurance costs in the case you mentioned)

Last year we wanted someone to work in the off licence, you legally have to 18 to serve alcohol but we werent allowed to put over 18s only in the ad.

So we had to waste our and the applicants time and money letting a 17yr apply for a job that legally they couldnt do.

Could the Ad not be worded in such a way to give a reason, e.g. Must satisfy the legal requirements to sell alcohol.

Shelflife

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Could the Ad not be worded in such a way to give a reason, e.g. Must satisfy the legal requirements to sell alcohol.

Yes thats what we did in the end, just couldnt put must be over 18.

No logic to it at all.

GM228

Shelflife wrote: »

Yes thats what we did in the end, just couldnt put must be over 18.

No logic to it at all.

In this case as age discrimination dosn't apply as the age restriction was lawful.

I once saw an ad in a shop window for a Korean food store which required the applicants to be Korean men. Not speak Korean, be of Korean nationality. Now while I assume the majority of Korean speakers would Korean, I couldn't figure out why the sales assistant job was only advertised for men.

Again, not a job I was planning on applying for but I thought they must be breaking some equal opportunities legislation! :P

Victor

Shelflife wrote: »

Fas or whatever they are called now , refused to put the age condition into the ad on the grounds of age discrimination.

If it's Jobs Ireland, I made a recent data protection and equality complaint that may change things. They themselves were demanding age (not eligibility) and nationality (not eligibility) information from job applicants.

Age discrimination is possible against under 18s and over 65s.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/21/enacted/en/print.html

6.—(1) For the purposes of this Act, discrimination shall be taken to occur where, on any of the grounds in subsection (2) (in this Act referred to as “the discriminatory grounds”), one person is treated less favourably than another is, has been or would be treated.

(2) As between any 2 persons, the discriminatory grounds (and the descriptions of those grounds for the purposes of this Act) are—

...

(f) that they are of different ages, but subject to subsection (3) (in this Act referred to as “the age ground”),

...

(3) Where—

(a) a person has attained the age of 65 years, or

(b) a person has not attained the age of 18 years,

then, subject to section 12 (3), treating that person more favourably or less favourably than another (whatever that other person's age) shall not be regarded as discrimination on the age ground.

This was amended to http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/24/section/4/enacted/en/html

(3) (a) The age ground applies only in relation to persons above the maximum age at which a person is statutorily obliged to attend school.

(b) Notwithstanding subsection (1) and section 37(2), an employer may set a minimum age, not exceeding 18 years, for recruitment to a post.

(c) Offering a fixed term contract to a person over the compulsory retirement age for that employment or to a particular class or description of employees in that employment shall not be taken as constituting discrimination on the age ground.

(d) Subsection (1)(b) of section 2 (exclusions) of the Unfair Dismissals Act 1977 is amended by deleting ‘or who on that date was a person to whom by reason of his age the Redundancy Payments Acts 1967 to 1973, did not apply’ and inserting ‘or who on that date had not attained the age of 16 years’.

Also note: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/21/enacted/en/print#sec37

37 (2) Nothing in this Part or Part II applies to discrimination against C in respect of employment in a particular post if the discrimination results from preferring D on the ground that the relevant characteristic of D is or amounts to an occupational qualification for the post in question.

That would apply to the alcohol sales case (for age), employment as a changing room cleaner (for gender) or perhaps a variety of grounds for certain classes of social care work.

languagenerd

Yeah, that's what I thought. I can't see what insurance issues a shop assistant would have though (no driving involved). They probably just don't want students. Bit silly of them to leave themselves open to legal action like that!

Victor

Deleted User wrote: »

I once saw an ad in a shop window for a Korean food store which required the applicants to be Korean men. Not speak Korean, be of Korean nationality.

Some such ads are based on misunderstandings, some on discrimination.

They might simply be looking for someone who can speak Korean or knows a lot about Korean culture, so that the person can fulfill the needs of customers. There are discriminatory stereotypes as to the work of men and women.

There are lots of ads out there looking for "English teachers" and "Customer Service - German". They're stupid, unthinking ads, but discrimination isn't necessarily intended.

GerardKeating

Deleted User wrote: »

I once saw an ad in a shop window for a Korean food store which required the applicants to be Korean men. Not speak Korean, be of Korean nationality. Now while I assume the majority of Korean speakers would Korean, I couldn't figure out why the sales assistant job was only advertised for men.

Again, not a job I was planning on applying for but I thought they must be breaking some equal opportunities legislation! :P

Sometimes things get lost in the translations, some languages have the same work for his/her, so if Korean person whom wrote the add might have used "Korean Man" for "Korean Person".

I saw an job ad here once for a nanny, they specified only Filipina need apply, but later re-worked it to "Tagalog Fluency required", effectively same difference, but more legal.

wokingvoter

Shelflife wrote: »

Fas or whatever they are called now , refused to put the age condition into the ad on the grounds of age discrimination.

FAS ( now Solas) are a hopeless case

Victor

wokingvoter wrote: »

FAS ( now Solas) are a hopeless case

FÁS, always a dysfunctional organisation, was actually split in two. The training bit became SOLAS (with the training centres going to the ETBs). The job placement side became the DSP's Employment Services. They are unable to do their job, so they have hired in Seetec and Turas Nua.