MAIZE V BEET V WHOLE CROP WHEAT/BARLEY V BREWERS/DISTILLERS GRAINS V RATION V HIGH QU

keep going

The way I see things panning out there is going to be something bought in whether it be silage off rented ground or whatever.so I have been trying to evaluate feeds that can be purchased in terms of price per kg dm and how they would fit into a system and what they would mean for labour.so what experience s do you have of different feeds and what sort of costings.any input from tillage guys would be appreciated

visatorro

keep going wrote: »

The way I see things panning out there is going to be something bought in whether it be silage off rented ground or whatever.so I have been trying to evaluate feeds that can be purchased in terms of price per kg dm and how they would fit into a system and what they would mean for labour.so what experience s do you have of different feeds and what sort of costings.any input from tillage guys would be appreciated

Have you a spare pit?
Handiest labour wise would be maize or whole crop and just feed out as normal with grab. I feed alot of rations here but it's fairly clear you don't get value for money . I've nowhere to store straights
The more educated lads will help on costings

RightTurnClyde

image.jpg
The figures are questionable but might give an indication

blue5000

Can you get maize grown on contract, pit it at your place at harvest? I don't know who has the contract with murphys for BG, it used to be Mcdonnells in Fermoy. If you could organize to have fresh BG in the yard when maize arrives, mix it in layers in the pit, brings up the CP in the maize a nice bit, feed it out with a grab.

alps

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

image.jpg
The figures are questionable but might give an indication

I would suggest the figures are incorrect on all counts....again no land charge included.

As this industry progresses, every new drop of milk will come from feed that has a land charge. Why this continuance by teagasc of avoiding it?

Grazed Grass 14c
Maize 16c
Silage 14/20c
Zero Graze 22/22c.

Milked out

Buy maize in contract in to the pit here and depending on year and yield it has come in at between 15c and 18c kgdm approx. Issue with maize is waste if not using enough and fecking crows. you get more bang from your buck feeding or buffering milkers with it so a long narrow pit would be ideal to reduce waste if using small amounts. Used the bag before found it difficult to protect from rats and birds and it also mulched the maize. Other issue is it is harvested too late for autumn buffering at grass unless kept from previous year.

RightTurnClyde

alps wrote: »

I would suggest the figures are incorrect on all counts....again no land charge included.

As this industry progresses, every new drop of milk will come from feed that has a land charge. Why this continuance by teagasc of avoiding it?

Grazed Grass 14c
Maize 16c
Silage 14/20c
Zero Graze 22/22c.

Alps I agree 99%. The only change I'd make to your list is I don't think zg is as expensive as is made out. Maybe MJ would have figures for the hire of a ZGer per kgDM and a portion of that could be added to grass costs to get a figure.
I think their issue with adding land charges is the same as the labour charges issue, if they include those they'll show that the emperor might not be wearing any clothes.

Mehaffey1

Where does Palm Kernel and harvested Fodder Beet come in at price per kgDM?

freedominacup

keep going wrote: »

The way I see things panning out there is going to be something bought in whether it be silage off rented ground or whatever.so I have been trying to evaluate feeds that can be purchased in terms of price per kg dm and how they would fit into a system and what they would mean for labour.so what experience s do you have of different feeds and what sort of costings.any input from tillage guys would be appreciated

I would say to avoid renting land to produce any forage yourself. Most grass rents aren't going to be in anything like the order your own ground is in fertility or award quality wise. You'll end up with very expensive poor quality feed.

Unless you're tooled up and skilled up renting arable ground to produce forage atm would be a complete loss making exercise. Your tillage farming neighbour can do it cheaper. You will not break even at current prices without any charge for your own work. One example of this was that my tillage farming neighbour was able to supply and apply sprays to my crops cheaper than I could buy the spray and apply it myself. There's at least as much skill and knowledge involved in growing grain as there is in running an efficient dairy farm. You should be able to establish a symbiotic relationship with your grower where they'll take your excess slurry/fym. They won't have much interest in paper exercises though. Afaik there are new regs relating to soil om levels in constant tillage ground so they'll be more than anxious to get as much slurry as you need to give them.

blue5000

freedominacup wrote: »

I would say to avoid renting land to produce any forage yourself. Most grass rents aren't going to be in anything like the order your own ground is in fertility or award quality wise. You'll end up with very expensive poor quality feed.

Unless you're tooled up and skilled up renting arable ground to produce forage atm would be a complete loss making exercise. Your tillage farming neighbour can do it cheaper. You will not break even at current prices without any charge for your own work. One example of this was that my tillage farming neighbour was able to supply and apply sprays to my crops cheaper than I could buy the spray and apply it myself. There's at least as much skill and knowledge involved in growing grain as there is in running an efficient dairy farm. You should be able to establish a symbiotic relationship with your grower where they'll take your excess slurry/fym. They won't have much interest in paper exercises though. Afaik there are new regs relating to soil om levels in constant tillage ground so they'll be more than anxious to get as much slurry as you need to give them.

Only problem with this is that OP is in west Cork so might not have any tillage neighbours beside him. The big tillage lads around here are reducing rented ground and some even talking about selling a combine. Barley price at €110-120 not adding up. Maize on contract could be a good break crop, especially with free slurry involved, will the dairy farmer be able to pay for it though?

keep going

A friend is getting maize bales delivered at 67 e a bale and reckons each one is a ton and from what I understand its about 20 c a kilo dm and says they very handy as you can feed maize one day and not the next..would be a nice hop from tillage but there is some going on but more barley /beet than maize.i reckon I can get enough silage to do the dry period but its feed to cover the shoulders.one small problem with beet /maize is restricted feed space but that could coverd with splitting the herd.i like the idea of buying something today and milk in the tank tomorrow versus paying out for renting and growing a crop long before you get to feed it

freedominacup

blue5000 wrote: »

Only problem with this is that OP is in west Cork so might not have any tillage neighbours beside him. The big tillage lads around here are reducing rented ground and some even talking about selling a combine. Barley price at €110-120 not adding up. Maize on contract could be a good break crop, especially with free slurry involved, will the dairy farmer be able to pay for it though?

My neighbour who was doing the work for us is moving most of his grain farm to farm. Definitely a horses for courses job. He also crimps a lot of grain on contract and does a good bit of complete contract where you give him the field and the fert, he does the work and the agronomy and supplies the spray and gives you your pit of crimped grain. Also does several versions of partnership jobs as well. It's an area more livestock and tillage farmers should be looking at instead of competing with each other for every square yard of ground that comes available.

whelan2

Not growing wholecrop here this year. Will see what's on offer in the autumn. Contractor could grow maize or whatever for me if I asked him to.

keep going

whelan2 wrote: »

Not growing wholecrop here this year. Will see what's on offer in the autumn. Contractor could grow maize or whatever for me if I asked him to.

Theres a neighbour that would give us ground for nearly nothing(would be in poor shape fertility wise) only to set a crop but I cant make sense o f it on a monatery or a labour basis in the current climate

Milked out

keep going wrote: »

Theres a neighbour that would give us ground for nearly nothing(would be in poor shape fertility wise) only to set a crop but I cant make sense o f it on a monatery or a labour basis in the current climate

Have you new ground taken recently? Would whole crop fit in with a reseeding programme? Either under sown or if straight u would have time to set grass after harvest?

joejobrien

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Alps I agree 99%. The only change I'd make to your list is I don't think zg is as expensive as is made out. Maybe MJ would have figures for the hire of a ZGer per kgDM and a portion of that could be added to grass costs to get a figure.
I think their issue with adding land charges is the same as the labour charges issue, if they include those they'll show that the emperor might not be wearing any clothes.

plus 1 here.
its is in there intrest to dress the shop window.

keep going

Milked out wrote: »

Have you new ground taken recently? Would whole crop fit in with a reseeding programme? Either under sown or if straight u would have time to set grass after harvest?

Crossing my mind and have done alot of it over the years but let me tell you a story.last year I ploughed on monday, dung on tuesday tilling and picking stones on Wednesday and planted on thursday and rolling .when you look at it it is a week gone in april when your time is limited and other things to do.nevermind the struggle to get it sprayed.if I graze for the moment and maybe take a cut of silage off it later and try and do some sort of a reseeding job, its better than trying to get it done in april
I already have beet and reseeding to do

Milked out

keep going wrote: »

Crossing my mind and have done alot of it over the years but let me tell you a story.last year I ploughed on monday, dung on tuesday tilling and picking stones on Wednesday and planted on thursday and rolling .when you look at it it is a week gone in april when your time is limited and other things to do.nevermind the struggle to get it sprayed.if I graze for the moment and maybe take a cut of silage off it later and try and do some sort of a reseeding job, its better than trying to get it done in april
I already have beet and reseeding to do

Could you contract out most of it? The stone picking is a balls alright one job that can't be contracted out. Take your point enough to be doing in April esp this year with the weather so far

freedominacup

keep going wrote: »

Crossing my mind and have done alot of it over the years but let me tell you a story.last year I ploughed on monday, dung on tuesday tilling and picking stones on Wednesday and planted on thursday and rolling .when you look at it it is a week gone in april when your time is limited and other things to do.nevermind the struggle to get it sprayed.if I graze for the moment and maybe take a cut of silage off it later and try and do some sort of a reseeding job, its better than trying to get it done in april
I already have beet and reseeding to do

And if you're honest what losses did you incur running around like a blue arsed fly during such a busy period. I'm speaking as someone who has the t-shirt.

Timmaay

freedominacup wrote: »

And if you're honest what losses did you incur running around like a blue arsed fly during such a busy period. I'm speaking as someone who has the t-shirt.

Your either not a proper dairy farmer or in denial if you don't think you have that tshirt ha!

Brown Podzol

I'm in this space every year. Even at a stocking rate of 4/lu/ha I can make enough quality bales to last to Christmas. I need a quality forage for fresh calved cows in the spring to compliment pit grass silage. I have been using maize silage grown on contract,I'm moving away from it this year simply because of its inconsistency year to year. You can't depend on it. Beet I'm using this year was bought last May cheap enough as it was grown on a contract that wasn't honoured. I'll probably buy wheat whole cropped, should be value looking at the price of cereals, I'll certainly buy it cheaper than trying to grow it myself. The thing is straights will probably be better value than of the forages @ c.€150/ton dm.

freedominacup

Timmaay wrote: »

Your either not a proper dairy farmer or in denial if you don't think you have that tshirt ha!

We all incur losses during busy times. My point was that having been there, ie not really being properly equipped or staffed for tillage operations and running around doing this work organising seed, fert, sprays etc not to mention something as labourious and time consuming as stone picking while there's still calves being fed the last couple of cows to calf as well as breeding leads to unessecary losses. Everyone I was at it I lost stock. If you're dairy farming that has to be your main focus this time of year. 20-30 acres of corn you can buy cheaper than you can grow it is a ridiculous distraction.

whelan2

freedominacup wrote: »

We all incur losses during busy times. My point was that having been there, ie not really being properly equipped or staffed for tillage operations and running around doing this work organising seed, fert, sprays etc not to mention something as labourious and time consuming as stone picking while there's still calves being fed the last couple of cows to calf as well as breeding leads to unessecary losses. Everyone I was at it I lost stock. If you're dairy farming that has to be your main focus this time of year. 20-30 acres of corn you can buy cheaper than you can grow it is a ridiculous distraction.

I have zero knowledge of cereals, all work was done by contractor. Lad from goldcrop would walk the crop and tell me when to spray or put out fertiliser and when to get it cut. Cost of seed, fertiliser, spray and contracor was quite high and I am sure a feed could be bought in cheaper

freedominacup

whelan2 wrote: »

I have zero knowledge of cereals, all work was done by contractor. Lad from goldcrop would walk the crop and tell me when to spray or put out fertiliser and when to get it cut. Cost of seed, fertiliser, spray and contracor was quite high and I am sure a feed could be bought in cheaper

I had a little knowledge which as the saying goes was a dangerous thing.

keep going

freedominacup wrote: »

And if you're honest what losses did you incur running around like a blue arsed fly during such a busy period. I'm speaking as someone who has the t-shirt.

Ddnt know there was more than one of those shirts.we have become somewhat distracted with what would only be an one off situation as I dont see us having the room to grow a crop on what is the grazing block.whatever feed we are discussing will be landed in the yard for feeding on the shoulders of 4he grazing system. Know some one in winter milk who gets whole crop wheat on contract and while reasonably happy with it idont 4hink it is as good feed as maize or beet but its very simple shear grab the whole crop in and little worries about stopping and starting compared to beet.the beet thats being sown this year is part of reseeding but in the long term with higher stocking rate there wouldnt be room even though it comes in at 14 cent grazeddm

ted_182

I was thinking of pitting wholecrop with brewers in the summer, the brewers from macdonalds are 28% pro and 36 dm so they shouldn't be too messy, the pit has only one wall, would that do? Would it feed as good as 80dmd silage? All opinions greatly appreciated