VW California / Hymer 314 / Benivan / Adria van

Agent_47

Looking at the above models for long touring stints (4 to 6 weeks) in Europe. I like the VW Cali for versatility of it but it has no shower / toilet for long stints or even short stints away from conveniences. It has Blue motion 4 wheel drive and a 200bhp engine is available.

I don't know much about the alternatives, the HYMER 314 is nice but only has a 130bhp engine. Have any on the above other than the VW decent strong engines and 4 wheel drive?

Any owners on here with experience of the pros and cons of any of the above. Where would one see the above models north or south of Ireland?

ianobrien

First, do you really need 4WD? The reason I'm asking is you won't be doing any real offroading as all vans have additional things hanging below the van (waste tanks, plumbing, etc). If it's winter you're thinking of, get a decent set of winter tyres.

Second, the VW is a LOT smaller than the Ducato. You won't fit lying across the back of a VW, but you will fit across the back of a Ducato.

Also, you've mentioned three high tops, and one narrow coachbuilt (Hymer), with three different layouts. When we at home are looking for a new 'van, we generally pick the layout first and work from that. What layout do you want?

I've a Laika high top at home, with the 130PS motor. With full tanks, its no problem sitting at 120kph all day. It's comfortable sitting at 90kph to 100kph all day, and returns an indicated 35mpg. As its for myself, it suits me grand.

Edit. Fiat are now doing a 4x4 camping car van. Also, Fiat also do a 180ps 3.0 engine option.

Agent_47

Winter Tyres will make up for 4x4.

The VW has a longitudal layout up top for a bed (and down below), that and the smaller dimension do not make it an ideal tourer. The layout in the Hymer is the one that appeals most, I will check out the Adria and Benimar separately. Thing is with the Hymer, once you get back wet from your excursion you have a shower room with clothes rack. In the VW you have no such luxury, fine if you are on your own, not if there are two drenched people .

Thanks for the info on the motor, will check out the Mercedes engine available on the Hymer 500 and the Fiat 4x4.

ianobrien

To be honest OP, I think you are focusing too much on the base vehicle. The 2.3 Ducato is more than adequate in either 130PS or 150PS for a small conversion. For the larger coachbuilt, the 150PS is better.The vast majority are built on the Ducato as Fiat build specific "Camping Car" vans and Chassis cabs. Also, they are one of widest vans (I won't fit lyng across the back of a Master or a Sprinter, but will fit across a Ducato). They are quite reliable, as long as you avoid the Ford/PSA sourced 2.2. Talking to mechanic friends, the 2.3 Ducato is much more reliable than the Sprinter or Transit.

You will spend more time living in the van than driving it, so focus on the layout rather than the base vehicle. There's no point in having the "best" engine if the accommodation layout is not suitable for your needs. From what you are saying, I'd say forget the Transporter based vans as they simply don't have the room for an extended trip. I'd be looking at layout, functional bathroom, water tank size, gas box size (for Gaslow drums), storage (if you enjoy hillwalking, storage for boots, backbacks, drying wet jackets & leggings, etc), cooking facilities (3 ring or full 4ring hob and oven if you're a foodie), etc.

Edit, you don't need a big motor for travelling in Ireland. The roads are so bad that the crockery would be rattling too much if you use the full power. If you're on the Continent, you'll be touring and you want to see the countryside. You don't want to race through Tuscany (for example). Also, half the fun is the journey, not the destination.

crabbypaddy

Stop thinking about horsepower for a start, usable torque is what matters in a diesel.

The 2.3 130ps ducato produces 320nm and is just as economical if not slightly more in the realworld hauling a lwb high roof as a t5 hauling its tiny self the quoted economy figures are bull. Have a look at some realword figures here:

http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/50-Volkswagen/461-Transporter.html?fueltype=1&minkm=15000&sort=3&powerunit=2
http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/16-Fiat/141-Ducato.html?fueltype=1&vehicletype=3&minkm=15000&powerunit=2

You definitely want at least a porta potti otherwise you'll end up paying €40 a night for a campsite when theres a perfectly good aire down the road or you'll be hiding in a ditch.

4-6 weeks in a t5 may be ok in good weather when your mostly outside it but if the weather goes against you you'll wish you had a bigger van.

Agent_47

Thanks all, thinking a coach built is best way to go unless going solo as SWMBO will want comfort, and I will want a garage. Thinking of a Benimar Mileo 201 as the kitchen is full size (oven, microwave and hob) and the shower room is better layout than the Hymer.
Agree with your thoughts on the warm weather usability of the T5 and the need for hook up at campsites for the basic necessities. Less reliance is better.
Thanks for the links, will explore further.

ianobrien

Agent_47 wrote: »

Thanks all, thinking a coach built is best way to go unless going solo as SWMBO will want comfort, and I will want a garage. Thinking of a Benimar Mileo 201 as the kitchen is full size (oven, microwave and hob) and the shower room is better layout than the Hymer.
Agree with your thoughts on the warm weather usability of the T5 and the need for hook up at campsites for the basic necessities. Less reliance is better.
Thanks for the links, will explore further.

Word to the wise. Most microwaves are 220V only, meaning sites and plugin. The 12V ones are useless.

For looking at 'vans, I'd focus first on the layout first and then the finish/equipment. Draw up a list of must haves, nice to haves and really nice to haves. From your posts, I'd say it's your first van based on posting about picking between a coachbuilt, High Top and a VW pop up roof (all are totally different). I'd go rent one for a week before you buy to see if you like that type of holiday. There's no point in spending €75k on a new van (you're talking about new vans here) if you don't know if you or the boss likes using them.

crabbypaddy

ianobrien wrote: »

There's no point in spending €75k on a new van (you're talking about new vans here) if you don't know if you or the boss likes using them.

Shhhhh. Someone has to provide a constant stream of extremely low mileage secondhand bargains for the rest of us :pac:

Know someone that bought a rollerteam with 1700 miles on the clock for 40% off new price, owners bought in germany, drove it home, vrtd it an wife said never again going in that yoke

Agent_47

crabbypaddy wrote: »

Shhhhh. Someone has to provide a constant stream of extremely low mileage secondhand bargains for the rest of us :pac:

Know someone that bought a rollerteam with 1700 miles on the clock for 40% off new price, owners bought in germany, drove it home, vrtd it an wife said never again going in that yoke

It'll be SWMBO who will be paying for it!

Agent_47

ianobrien wrote: »

Word to the wise. Most microwaves are 220V only, meaning sites and plugin. The 12V ones are useless.

Thanks for that info.

For looking at 'vans, I'd focus first on the layout first and then the finish/equipment. Draw up a list of must haves, nice to haves and really nice to haves. From your posts, I'd say it's your first van based on posting about picking between a coachbuilt, High Top and a VW pop up roof (all are totally different). I'd go rent one for a week before you buy to see if you like that type of holiday. There's no point in spending €75k on a new van (you're talking about new vans here) if you don't know if you or the boss likes using them.

Have the layout and the must haves, don't want half a van with no mod cons as it will not be used. Have settled on a Benimar Mileo 201. Irish price €70K, UK price new €46k! Will be looking at the UK second hand market, Rip off Ireland is alive and kicking!

ianobrien

Agent_47 wrote: »

Have the layout and the must haves, don't want half a van with no mod cons as it will not be used. Have settled on a Benimar Mileo 201. Irish price €70K, UK price new €46k! Will be looking at the UK second hand market, Rip off Ireland is alive and kicking!

You're wrong there. The UK price is GB £46k. Converting that to euro is €58k. Then add the VAT difference, and finally VRT and you'll get up to the €70k.

If you're looking for second hand, you'll still have to pay for the Sterling and VRT.

crabbypaddy

Agent_47 wrote: »

Have the layout and the must haves, don't want half a van with no mod cons as it will not be used. Have settled on a Benimar Mileo 201. Irish price €70K, UK price new €46k! Will be looking at the UK second hand market, Rip off Ireland is alive and kicking!

As above:
vrt = 13.3% or open market selling price = €9310

Take £46k add 3% for vat difference =£47.38k

At todays bank of ireland rates for <70k band = €59462

€59462 + €9310 = €68772

Then add fuel, ferry, temporary insurance to bring it home, vrt assessment fee and all the time and hassle.

Agent_47

ianobrien wrote: »

You're wrong there. The UK price is GB £46k. Converting that to euro is €58k. Then add the VAT difference, and finally VRT and you'll get up to the €70k.

If you're looking for second hand, you'll still have to pay for the Sterling and VRT.

As I say Rip off Ireland, extra Vat and VRT. Will not be paying either one way or another.

Agent_47

crabbypaddy wrote: »

As above:
vrt = 13.3% or open market selling price = €9310

Take £46k add 3% for vat difference =£47.38k

At todays bank of ireland rates for <70k band = €59462

€59462 + €9310 = €68772

Then add fuel, ferry, temporary insurance to bring it home, vrt assessment fee and all the time and hassle.

Sterling rate is looking better all the time!

crabbypaddy

Agent_47 wrote: »

As I say Rip off Ireland, extra Vat and VRT. Will not be paying either one way or another.

Goid luck with that. Nothing's as certain as death and taxes. If you weren't paying it in vrt we'd all be paying it out of our pay packets.