Advice for a non interested son of a farmer

feardeas

Hey,

Doubt if the following is atypical but maybe it is. Early 30s, only son in the family. No interest in farming, never had. Spent any amount of time on it when I was in school in Summers and weekends and disliked it. Haven't spent much time on it since.

Went to college and got a job away from where I'm from. Used to go back very often but less so now. Here now for the Easter weekend.

My father is in his late 60s now and has a young man employed on the farm to help and that is working very well in fairness. This is a busy time with the lambing and calving. Take note any other person at my father's age is retired now. But of course as far as he is concerned unless a person is farming it can't be considered work. I'm my whole life listening to it. Yet he's a contradiction because he values education and would have dissuaded us from farming full time. I know his ideal would have been for someone,probably me, to be around to give a hand whenever he wanted and all that.

Tonight when he came in the lament about what its all for etc. what will become of it and all the rest. Now I hat these because you feel like a disappointment for actually having built a life and career away from the farm. So I challenge him and say I don't have an interest and then he says that he would run me if I wanted to go at it full time and I'm far better at what I'm at.

Now I know it reads like some bad soap. I also don't want to sound like a prick. I admire all he's done and how hard he has worked, I always will. However there has always been a fair amount of tension between us and this doesn't help. He then asked would I sell it, of course I wouldn't. I have no interest in farming it myself but I would rent it out instead to someone who would be interested and look after it rather than let it fall in to rack and ruin.

I think I'm right in saying that his generation of farming people are like what I have described. I understand why he is.

I've said that he needs to have a plan for what he wants to do when he may no longer be able to do what he is at now i.e. over 200 sheep and up on 60 cows with 30 odd calving.

Does anyone know if there's such a thing as him renting it but having some small input to keep him occupied. I can't imagine there is and God knows I'd say it would be a recipe for disaster. I think the lad working for him would be ideal if it could work but I can't see my father standing aside completely. Can't imagine anyone setting out on an enterprise wanting someone there all the time.

Also has anyone been in a similar situation as me? Any advice on what one can do? I know growing a pair is probably the best option but i've spent my life plamásing my parents and habits die hard.



PS
I know this is the farming forum so please don't think i'm being rude posting this here, none of what I've said should be taken as devaluing farming. I know how hard ye work especially this time of the year.

pablo128

Is there a hands off aspect to farming you could help out with? The paperwork end of it? He might appreciate some sort of contribution.

feardeas

Most of that is covered by either the accountant or the agricultural advisor. We were never really 'let in' to the workings of the whole business at all. It's only in the last couple of years my mother has become involved and that I'm asked to read over various documents. As an aside how they expect men like my father to figure out the detail is a mystery.

Also as I'm not around much and live a good bit away I'm not around too often, try to visit every three weeks or so.

Any time he asks me to do something I do, and my credit card is used to pay for tags, and that testing that has to be done on new born calves.

Cheers for the reply

greenpetrol

pablo128 wrote: »

Is there a hands off aspect to farming you could help out with? The paperwork end of it? He might appreciate some sort of contribution.

Go into partnership with someone ! You supply the land and they supply the labour ! Decisions and running are 50/50 after that if that suits

LaLa2004

I don't mean to be smart but have you any sisters? Would they or their partners have any interest in farming?

Lady lou

Is there even a small interest there but just need a little push???

Sounds to me like your dad sees potential but as I said just need that push. Try it out for a while. Spend a few long days on the farm with your dad. You might even get to know him better.

farmerjj

greenpetrol wrote: »

Go into partnership with someone ! You supply the land and they supply the labour ! Decisions and running are 50/50 after that if that suits

Don't do a partnership, will not end well. Rent out the land if you want to hold onto the land, but cant see why you and your family would not seriously consider selling it and let your parents retire with ease of mind when it comes to the financial side.

greenpetrol

farmerjj wrote: »

Don't do a partnership, will not end well. Rent out the land if you want to hold onto the land, but cant see why you and your family would not seriously consider selling it and let your parents retire with ease of mind when it comes to the financial side.

Do not sell it ! It's something you may regret for ever more and that would be a decision that's irreversible

whelan2

feardeas wrote: »

Hey,

Doubt if the following is atypical but maybe it is. Early 30s, only son in the family. No interest in farming, never had. Spent any amount of time on it when I was in school in Summers and weekends and disliked it. Haven't spent much time on it since.

Went to college and got a job away from where I'm from. Used to go back very often but less so now. Here now for the Easter weekend.

My father is in his late 60s now and has a young man employed on the farm to help and that is working very well in fairness. This is a busy time with the lambing and calving. Take note any other person at my father's age is retired now. But of course as far as he is concerned unless a person is farming it can't be considered work. I'm my whole life listening to it. Yet he's a contradiction because he values education and would have dissuaded us from farming full time. I know his ideal would have been for someone,probably me, to be around to give a hand whenever he wanted and all that.

Tonight when he came in the lament about what its all for etc. what will become of it and all the rest. Now I hat these because you feel like a disappointment for actually having built a life and career away from the farm. So I challenge him and say I don't have an interest and then he says that he would run me if I wanted to go at it full time and I'm far better at what I'm at.

Now I know it reads like some bad soap. I also don't want to sound like a prick. I admire all he's done and how hard he has worked, I always will. However there has always been a fair amount of tension between us and this doesn't help. He then asked would I sell it, of course I wouldn't. I have no interest in farming it myself but I would rent it out instead to someone who would be interested and look after it rather than let it fall in to rack and ruin.

I think I'm right in saying that his generation of farming people are like what I have described. I understand why he is.

.

I dont know of any retired farmers in their 60's, yes some of them might start taking things a bit easier but there is no real retirement in farming

feardeas

Thanks for replies. I do have a sister but her level of interest would be similar to mine.

He would never sell it at all. And without sounding rude I spent long days and nights on it. He knows there's no interest there. It's a thing that only comes up now and again. Not a real worry in the scheme of things and I suppose these things have a habit of sorting themselves out.

You have to live your own life. He could rent the land out, but he would have to distance himself from it's operating, as he may not approve of the methods of his tenant. It's a very tricky situation. As other posters have mentioned, have you any sisters or cousins who may have an interest in taking it over.

But mainly, you have to put yourself first. You cannot live his life or his dream for him and he has to accept that.

JeffKenna

To be honest I'd try not to worry about it, as simple as it may sound things do have a habit of working themselves out.

Do you enjoy your work? I think this would be a big factor in any decision. Are you on a career ladder going well? Can you see yourself working in that job forever?

Also, probably a harder question but are you sure you dislike farming or do you dislike farming with your dad. Normally we tend to enjoy things more when we're given responsibility and ownership. It doesn't sound like you've ever got that so
Perhaps a consideration as well.

jimini0

1. You or your sister have no interest in farming.
2. You don't want to sell.
3. Your father is not ready to retire
.

Talk to your parents see what they want to do. Since no family have an interest in farming the land. Maybe suggest splitting up the land. Without knowing the acreage if you split the farm in two. 2/3 to rent out and 1/3 for your father to keep some sheep and cows. He then has his freedom to farm on a smaller scale. He should be happy to see the land being productive and he will be even happier to be farming some of the land himself.
Then in the future when your father thinks its time for himself to retire. The land can be turned back into one plot to with sell or continue to rent out

tractorporn

whelan2 wrote:

I dont know of any retired farmers in their 60's, yes some of them might start taking things a bit easier but there is no real retirement in farming

My dad is in his 70s and shows no sign of stopping. It's only recently that he's started taking things easier and let me in a bit more but that's only down to necessity not want.

Is there any way you could rent out say half the land and keep some around the house? You could keep the sheds and cut cow numbers but still leave something for your father to have an interest in?

whelan2

whelan2 wrote: »

I dont know of any retired farmers in their 60's, yes some of them might start taking things a bit easier but there is no real retirement in farming

I think he meant that non - farming people would have retired.

I am in a similar position to you OP except the farm is smaller and I live nearby.

I think that whatever happens is your father's decision. He can keep farming, rent it out, give it to you. If/when you inherit the farm it will be your decision.

I won't sell but I won't be farming either.

TeaBagMania

greenpetrol wrote: »

Do not sell it ! It's something you may regret for ever more and that would be a decision that's irreversible

This, don’t sell it.
If the bottom falls out of your profession or we hit another recession you can always fall back to farming. Even if it’s not your forte, it’ll pay the bills.
In the future one of your kids might want to be a farmer and won’t they be lucky to have the land to do it.
Personally I wouldn’t want to work with livestock, crops I could handle

handlemaster

What ever you do . Keep an eye on the money. Lots would take advantage of your father

Bass Reeves

At a guess this farm is 130+ acres. OP have you no interest in farming or have you no interest in being tied to the farm. I see lots of lads in there 20's and 30's have no interest. it is generally that when they were younger farming was slavery and they were not machinery jockeys. They were interested in playing Soccer, GAA or both but the farm was in the way. It was too late by the time they got to appreciate it. Is your job miles away from the farm and have you a family.

If your father changed from cows to rearing drystock whether to stores or finish would you be interested. Less time tied to the farm an operation like this with a good setup can be run in 20 hours a week. Split between you and him it would be very manageable.

The other choice to to lease all or part of it. Your father can lease it. At a guess there is a SFP of 25K+. Leasing 3/4 farm and 3/4 SFP would yield a lease of 20-25K and more if a few dairy farmers were interested. However your father and you would have to understand that as long as the renter obeys the terms of the lease it is his to run as he wants. Know a lad that had a bit of ground taken and as he put it owner wanted the rent but would have liked the person renting the land not to come onto the farm at all.

patsy_mccabe

OP, fair play for knowing your own mind. Too many sons/daughters pressurised into taking over a farm they don't want. Too many end up with mental health issues and become alcoholics as a result.
Whatever you do, best of luck. You only get to live your life once, might as well make the most of it.

Milked out

Well if you are sure you or none of your siblings have an interest in taking over and farming, perhaps if possible when the topic comes up ye should suggest to the parents that they should start thinking of what they want from it to make their own lives comfortable and not to be planning to set it up for one of ye to operate it. They've farmed all their lives and reared and educated ye so they should be working out what they want for themselves and how to achieve it be that thru partial or full sale or rental or whatever else. It won't be worked out in one conversation or in a short time but be patient and as much as ye can don't fall out over it.

Best of luck

bogman_bass

Why are people trying to change thisguys mind and make a farmer out of him when he clearly doesn't want to.
I love farming but I couldn't think of a worse job of your heart isn't in it.

Reading lads saying "don't sell. You never know when you might suddenly want to be a farmer" is nonsense.

However you don't want to sell so either look at a long term lease. The tax benefits are substantial over renting. Also with security of tenure the farmer renting can afford to invest in fencing etc and keep the place right.

The other option is a partnership. This can be tailored to suit both parties. Have a chat with the macra land mobility service.

The single most important thing is open and frank discussion between the two of you.
And remember that the Bull McCabe was determined to hold onto the land and look how it turned out for him. Do what's best for you

feardeas

Thanks for replies one and all.

I live and work a 2 hour drive from where I'm from and where the farm is heading back tomorrow and won't be around again for a few weeks. In relation to retiring I was talking about non farm people retiring at 66. I know full well that farmers don't retire really until death or ill health and hopefully both of those are a long way off for him.

My mother worked off farm and ran the house etc. she has a pension and is comfortable, they both are really. I suppose last night I was just thinking about the future. I know I won't be farming in any capacity, my career is elsewhere, I'm lucky that it is stable and won't be going anywhere unless people stop reproducing!!

I was interested in the idea of letting some and not the rest. It is somewhere between 130 and 150 acres in size and that would mean it would keep him occupied in a sustainable way and the rest of it would be farmed well also.

As for the longer term future and assuming the current systems remain in place I think the long term leases are very tax efficient and genuinely see it as a good basis for farming into the future. I want to see it productively farmed and I think its size is fair enough to allow a good farmer, as my father undoubtedly is, make a good go of it. Also the infrastructure in terms of slatted shed, dry shed, crush is good and the farm apart from about 20 acres is all flowing into each other.

I won't sell it or rather the part that will be mine in the future. I read once that land changes ownership name every 180 years or so. It is amazing and yet I suppose, notwithstanding my lack of interest, I am a shining example as to why that's the case.

Last thing I want is to fall out over it but as a few have said these things sort themselves out, if he was happy farming a smaller bit in a way that wouldn't kill him out in the years to come and the rest could be rented out then that would be great but all of that is a decision for him and him alone.

L1985

I completely agree with bogman bass.hes in his 30s I think he knows what he wants-couldn't think of a worse career to feel forced into. dad's the same in his 70s would never retire. I'm big into improvements around the place to make his life easier (I work f/t). Even just making him spend money on simple things to make it easier (and safer) for him.we rented out some land as well.long term you need to chat to your father-let him know you won't want to sell it but see what he's thinking option wise.maybe something could be worked out with the guy working there?

shalom

Hi Im a female and was brought up on a farm. 100 acres we all had to work on it and it was given to my older brother. My father got sick (from drinking) and asked him would he take it. There is 10 acres left....... I worked in the Dept of Agriculture for 15 years and the amount of times I saw fellas given the farm and it was nothing but a noose around their necks . Some of them used a real noose unfortunately cause they were so unhappy. To me if you are farming you HAVE to have a LOVE of the land especially where one is only going to make a meagre amount of money. you would often see a wife working full time outside of these farms.They usually keep the house going etc.
Otherwise you have the bigger farmer where they treat it as a buisness, they love the land etc but not like the other fella. if they have to kill something , sell something or even poison lakes etc they will do it without hesitation. They are out to make money and they enjoy doing it on a farm. some of these farmers will also be shuttering cutting silage etc to make bucks.
Then you have the poor bastard who used to come into to the counter when we used to do the cards and his mother is with him. I would say 'shure Tommy can talk to me but my god there was no way she was going to let Tommy do this' cause he would probably make a balls of it (and she was probably right)he was brought in cause the farm was his and this outing was to make him feel useful etc and give him a grown up feeling but by god his mother did ALL of the talking, even though I would be looking at Tommy , to see if I could get him involved, there wasnt a hope he could. Usually these fellas married a cute woman who hated farming and sold bits and pieces of it here and there, hopefully both parents were passed on when this was done. I have seen a mother moved out to a mobile home to accommodate the new bride. Yes it does happen....
then you have the likes of your father who the land IS everything to him, hence his fear of you selling it, he probably know this is going to happen. He needs a few suckler cows or bullocks or whatever and a bit of a allotment to grow veggies if he is into that . But whatever you do let him have a couple for himself. I have seen many small farmers who has a couple of acres and this is what I call therapy to them , to be able to getup in the morning and have to go out and check the cows or whatever and the same throughout the day. If their wives are alive this gives them a gratjoy as well seeing the husband having something to do and there areusually someway stuck in it as well feeding calves etc.
Now I didnt read your thread only the first paragraph cause I have work in the morning , I'm in a completely different dept now (still a lowly grade but meh, Im earning) I do miss my farmers etc and I haave held a few hands etc when someone herd went down with TB or Brucellous (the shame these farmers feel is unreal)I have an absolutely Greatest respect for these older people, my own brother did not leave my father up the yard and for all he did wrong he gave him the bloody farm he shouldnt have treated him like that. It was a very cruel thing for him to do.
Now with regard to your Dad you could see if you could get him his own herd number, this would keep him busy. Now I know you have to have separate facilities etc but talk to a vet inside or agriculture officer etc . Do a bit of research first anyways. If you dont want the farm is their anybody at home that you know has a love of the land. Dont put a noose around your neckand if all comes to all say that to him . These things have a way of sorting itself out. Your father in encouraging you for an education was still hopeful you would come back to the farm. But my advise for you for your father dont shut him out. Give him something to do. and he will be too busy to stick his neck into your business. i hope i have answered a few things for you or given you a bit to chew on. You are probably very like your Dad (maybe not) and thats why the tension is there but just remember this was what he reared ye on . Im sure your mother was the first to heara cow calving in the middle of the night (the women seem to have an ear cocked all night when they expect the cow to calf) also your ways and quickness isnt your fathers ways, ease him out of it , don't throw him head first. Anyways good luck with whatever you do and I hope you make a decision you are happy with and your Dad.
Yes , i probably have a grat love of the land and always go tho the county fairs. I still remember being a very small child and my father ploughing with the chyslers horses( that is spelt wrong, sorry ) goodnight.

melissak

Could you look into getting someone to manage the fArm?

thegreatgonzo

You could look up the land mobility service. I only heard about this lately but it's for young people who want to be farmers but have no land themselves. They get matched with a farmer to learn skills and presumably rent the land off the retiring farmer.

the_shark

Just to add my 2 cents on this , i spent my twenties living at home with zero interest farming. Now that I've hit 30 I'm on the other side of country dealing with farmers in my day job all day long and I'm so jealous when I hear calves or sheep in the background on the phone.most weekends I'm down home helping dad now and I've fallen in love with it. So OP let selling be the last option,you never know what might happen,as others have said leasing a chunk out would probably be the best route

pat25c

I'm in the same boat as the OP , zero interest in the farm & no other sibling in a position to take over . Renting would be my preferred option but I learned today that if the land is rented you lose your single payment.

Bass Reeves

pat25c wrote: »

I'm in the same boat as the OP , zero interest in the farm & no other sibling in a position to take over . Renting would be my preferred option but I learned today that if the land is rented you lose your single payment.

So???????

roosky

A farm partnership is what your father and the farm worker need. There will be no fall out once every term and condition is decided upon before any thing is signed

pillphil

bogman_bass wrote: »

...And remember that the Bull McCabe was determined to hold onto the land and look how it turned out for him....

Maybe not the best example, he was determined to hold onto land he was renting.

pat25c

Bass Reeves wrote:

So???????

Just to be aware

melissak

pillphil wrote: »

Maybe not the best example, he was determined to hold onto land he was renting.

was it not his field?

tanko

melissak wrote: »

was it not his field?

He thought it was his field but he was only renting it of the old woman who lived on her own and was being terrorised every night by the Bulls son. The Yank wanted to buy the field to build a nuclear power plant on it;)

C0N0R

pat25c wrote: »

Just to be aware

You can also lease your single farm payment out

patsy_mccabe

tanko wrote: »

He thought it was his field but he was only renting it of the old woman who lived on her own and was being terrorised every night by the Bulls son. The Yank wanted to buy the field to build a nuclear power plant on it;)

Pour concrete over that fine field. Your as foreign as any Yank.

tanko

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Pour concrete over that fine field. Your as foreign as any Yank.

Where is ''the field'', is it in Clare?

Miname

tanko wrote: »

Where is ''the field'', is it in Clare?

Set in leenane in Galway. The pub is still there beautiful part around there.

pat25c

Separate from the land?

TeaBagMania

Miname wrote: »

Set in leenane in Galway. The pub is still there beautiful part around there.

agreed, absolutely beautiful

patsy_mccabe

Miname wrote: »

Set in leenane in Galway. The pub is still there beautiful part around there.

I went to see the plays 'The Leenane Trilogy' a few years back.