The terrifying anti-LGBT backlash in America

Links234

I'm more than a little shocked that this isn't being discussed much at all on boards, as Georgia is set to introduce an extreme anti-LGBT law under the guise of "Religious Liberty" which is seeing a lot of major companies threaten to move their business elsewhere if it goes into effect (including the producers of The Walking Dead). Or the recently passed law in North Carolina that prohibits local governments from passing their own LGBT protections.

This should be cause for concern, because if such an aggressive backlash is happening this soon after marriage equality, it shows that marriage is far from the be all and end all of LGBT equality and it will still be an uphill struggle. I don't think the Iona crowd and their US funders will be far behind either, and we may see a backlash here in Ireland too.

Annasopra

We may see a backlash here in Ireland but I don't see it being strong or happening just yet. Iona types are too concentrated on saving the 8th amendment at the moment.

The racist far right are very unorganised
The religious far right are better organised but mostly very unpopular

baby and crumble

We may, but luckily by being bound by EU equality law it is unlikely that the backlash will be quite as intense.

What this has done though is make me wary or holidaying or perhaps living in the US for a period of time. It's always been a dream of mine but as someone who doesn't fit a lot of people's gender perceptions I would find it difficult in many states.

Links234

baby and crumble wrote: »

What this has done though is make me wary or holidaying or perhaps living in the US for a period of time. It's always been a dream of mine but as someone who doesn't fit a lot of people's gender perceptions I would find it difficult in many states.

I know what you mean, I was in Seattle last year and thought it was an absolutely wonderful place, extremely LGBT friendly. Now I'm hearing some absolute horror stories from friends over there, and I'm not just shocked, but would be having second thoughts about going back. Or at least waiting to see how things pan out.

Ten of Swords

Links234 wrote: »

Georgia is set to introduce an extreme anti-LGBT law under the guise of "Religious Liberty"

HB757 is an appalling piece of legislation, it was passed 34-18 on March 16th. It allows any individual or “faith-based” business, non-profit entity, or taxpayer-funded organization to ignore laws that conflict with their religious beliefs about marriage.

On that basis any person, business, or taxpayer-funded organization could refuse anyone rights, services, and benefits to someone if they are,

part of a same-sex couple
part of an interracial couple
part of an interfaith couple
a single mother
divorced
remarried
living with, or have lived with, a partner without being married

Georgian rights campaigners have put together a list of hypothetical scenarios that could arise as a result of this legislation. I don't know how likely any of these would be but the possibilities are very alarming

a single mother and her child being denied safety at the domestic violence shelter
a hospital denying a man the opportunity to say goodbye to his dying husband;
a cemetery corporation denying an interracial couple a shared cemetery plot;
a restaurant refusing to allow a child’s birthday party because his parents are divorced;
an unmarried couple and their child being denied a room at a hotel late at night if they find themselves stranded

J_E

Elliot Roger wrote: »

If I was gay I'd be more worried about Muslims beheading me than some parochial state in America.

Real sound logic there, cheers. You might want to actually talk to a Muslim and see what their opinion on this is.

Did people really think introducing gay marriage was going to make these problems vanish? It can't be solved that way. You will only stop it with a Supreme Court ruling. With every forceful decision like that made though you only stand to incite more hatred though. It's difficult.

Annasopra

don't bother responding to Eliot he's site banned for trolling

feardeas

It was done here by popular vote of the people, not a court decision. Let none of us think that a similar question would have passed in Georgia or North Carolina. Just look at the election over there.

Referendum not the end of the road but not is there any u turn up the way either.

fran17

Links234 wrote: »

I'm more than a little shocked that this isn't being discussed much at all on boards, as Georgia is set to introduce an extreme anti-LGBT law under the guise of "Religious Liberty" which is seeing a lot of major companies threaten to move their business elsewhere if it goes into effect (including the producers of The Walking Dead). Or the recently passed law in North Carolina that prohibits local governments from passing their own LGBT protections.

This should be cause for concern, because if such an aggressive backlash is happening this soon after marriage equality, it shows that marriage is far from the be all and end all of LGBT equality and it will still be an uphill struggle. I don't think the Iona crowd and their US funders will be far behind either, and we may see a backlash here in Ireland too.

So,in summary,you believe that pastors should be forced to preform SSM and that churches or religious schools should be forced to hold events associated with lgbt groups?Knowing full well that these goes against there beliefs and teachings.

uck51js9zml2yt

fran17 wrote: »

So,in summary,you believe that pastors should be forced to preform SSM and that churches or religious schools should be forced to hold events associated with lgbt groups?Knowing full well that these goes against there beliefs and teachings.

Dont worry, its coming soon. Just look at the reaction to Asher's Bakery.

fran17

Lyle Straight Supertanker wrote: »

Dont worry, its coming soon. Just look at the reaction to Asher's Bakery.

Ah I doubt that.But in layman's terms that is what this law will do.It will give a man or woman of faith the right to freedom of religion and freedom of speech,ie the first amendment.The lgbt lobby in the US is aggressively attacking religious freedoms and,like all freedoms,they need to be defended.

Annasopra

fran17 wrote: »

So,in summary,you believe that pastors should be forced to preform SSM and that churches or religious schools should be forced to hold events associated with lgbt groups?Knowing full well that these goes against there beliefs and teachings.

Where did links say any of that?

newacc2015

It is not being discussed OP, as the Governor of Georgia has already stated he will veto the law. The US is a country where the opinion of big money matters most. Many Fortune 500 companies have stated they will damage the Georgian economy if the law is passed. They will stop TV/Film production in Georgia which is important for the state. Arkansas tried to introduce similar laws in the past and Walmart (one of the largest companies in America and based in Arkansas) was entirely against it. The suggested laws were quickly dropped.

I dont know how you can suggest similar laws being introduced in Ireland. We have some of the strongest anti-discrimination laws within Europe(bar for teachers). There is no desire within the general public to discriminate against LGBT people in Ireland (there would be a sizeable minority in certain US states, but the same people would think allowing equal rights for African Americans is still not right). These laws cant happen here, as the American companies will lose their **** literally at them being suggested. Politicians won't risk losing hundreds of thousands of jobs here to please a minority who oppose LGBT rights.

People fail to realise that US is massive. If you look at it on a map it seems quite small. If you look at the state of Texas compared to Europe, it is pretty much the same size of Germany, most of France, BeNeLux, most of Austria, Switzerland,Czech Republic and a fair amount of Italy. A country the size of the US will have very different values, cultures and religions within it. Someone from Lousiana is almost completely different to a Californian. States are treated like their own country within the US. Only certain issues are dealt with a Federal level eg taxation, deference. Most things like state taxes, infrastructure, education, insurance coverage is dealt with at the state level. The different between states is massive.

Saying you wont go to the US due to anti-LGBT laws, is like looking at Russia introducing similar laws and not going to Europe for that reason. Tens of thousands of gay Irish people have moved to America for decades due to the far more welcoming society than here. Even Atlanta, Georgia is considered the LGBT centre of the deep south. People think Texas is super conservative, yet Austin is one of the most liberal cities in the US

America has had safe and legal abortion since 1973. There is plenty of opposition for abortion still in America. The SSM decision in the US has nothing to do with the anti-LGBT laws.

Ten of Swords

fran17 wrote: »

The lgbt lobby in the US is aggressively attacking religious freedoms and,like all freedoms,they need to be defended.

Sigh, a typical trope wheeled out periodically by politicians behind laws like these. People seeking equality and the legal protections that comes with it are equated to attackers of freedom and democracy :eek:

When you cut through all the bullѕhit it really boils down to "I don't like you/agree with you so I don't have to serve you", in any normal circumstances this is not OK but when that sentence is qualified with "because my religion says so" it suddenly becomes acceptable?

B_Wayne

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Where did links say any of that?

I suspect this is an instance of a user drawing a point from where there is no such claim.

L1011

Lyle Straight Supertanker wrote: »

Dont worry, its coming soon. Just look at the reaction to Asher's Bakery.

I know a (recently enough out, albeit I doubt that's too significant) gay, atheist as possible, man who is 100% in support of Ashers. Don't interpret that support as being equal to support for workplace discrimination legislation.

uck51js9zml2yt

L1011 wrote: »

I know a (recently enough out, albeit I doubt that's too significant) gay, atheist as possible, man who is 100% in support of Ashers. Don't interpret that support as being equal to support for workplace discrimination legislation.

Ashers were refused the right to freedom of religion which is a right uner the Irish Constitution - I know Ashers comes under UK law.
Everyone is shouting about their rights to equality but refused to accept they had rights. There was another business in Ireland recently IIRC in the same boat.
Its animal farm again...4 legs good, 2 legs bad except if we have a snout and a tail.

fran17

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Where did links say any of that?

But in essence Joey that is the protection the bill would give to men,women or organisations of faith.The legal protection to respectfully refuse SSM and such requests on the grounds of their religious beliefs.Links234 is,by admittance,more than shocked and terrified by this bill so the logical assumption is Links234 believes that these men and women should not have this protection.No?

Annasopra

fran17 wrote: »

But in essence Joey that is the protection the bill would give to men,women or organisations of faith.The legal protection to respectfully refuse SSM and such requests on the grounds of their religious beliefs.Links234 is,by admittance,more than shocked and terrified by this bill so the logical assumption is Links234 believes that these men and women should not have this protection.No?

So Links didn't say that basically

The Randy Riverbeast

There is a large difference between doing something against your religion and discriminating against someone who does something which is against your religion. We tend to reduce religious freedoms when it comes to harming others.

Links234

newacc2015 wrote: »

America has had safe and legal abortion since 1973. There is plenty of opposition for abortion still in America.

I think this is the nub of the issue right here, America has legal abortion on paper, but access to clinics and doctors has been steadily chipped away over the years, through well malicious laws and obstructive regulation that have forced the closure of many clinics. So in a lot of places, while abortion might be legal, in practice it's another matter. A recently article on Bloomberg states that "At least 162 providers have closed since 2011." And a Guardian article from last year highlights how it's not just happening in conservative states.

Likewise, the intent behind these disingenuous "Religious freedom" bills is aiming to achieve a somewhat similar outcome. Same sex marriage could be legal on paper, but if no county clerk will issue a marriage license and can legally refuse to do, it becomes the same situation: SSM being legal on paper, but in practice it could become impossible for many people.

While I certainly cede your points about the difference between states being huge, there is still a similar backlash in many liberal states. Lets not forget that Prop 8 was passed in California, and that there was a very strong, concerted effort in what was a very liberal state. Likewise what's happening in Washington state, which had laws protecting trans people for over a decade, but has recently seen an extreme push to have them repealed. Plenty of friends of mine in Seattle have been quite shocked at the recent rise in LGBT attitudes even there, including one friend who had moved there from Florida. I may come across a little alarmist, but talking to friends about what's happening in the states, it really does give me cause for concern. Especially when a lot of the anti-LGBT legislation is specifically targetting trans people as a way of undermining broader anti-discrimination protections. That's something that I certainly wouldn't put past the Iona crowd here, turning towards trans people as their target.

Gremlinertia

Have to say the situation worries me too. What's legal isn't what is practiced by the populace in some areas. We have equality laws here which are turned a blind eye to at times. Refusal of service generally is used.. What worries me about it is that younger generations see this behaviour, similar with certain states in America and think it's permissable to bend or ignore rules/laws. Links used abortion clinics as an example and it's pretty much spot on.. If they can't fight one way, they will go another, perhaps more insidious, way.

baby and crumble

Why is one type of "discrimination" ok (religious folks right to refuse to serve people they believe go against Gods teachings) but another (people being obligated to respect the laws everyone else has to abide by- ie serve people in shops) not ok?

newacc2015

Links234 wrote: »

I think this is the nub of the issue right here, America has legal abortion on paper, but access to clinics and doctors has been steadily chipped away over the years, through well malicious laws and obstructive regulation that have forced the closure of many clinics. So in a lot of places, while abortion might be legal, in practice it's another matter. A recently article on Bloomberg states that "At least 162 providers have closed since 2011." And a Guardian article from last year highlights how it's not just happening in conservative states.

Likewise, the intent behind these disingenuous "Religious freedom" bills is aiming to achieve a somewhat similar outcome. Same sex marriage could be legal on paper, but if no county clerk will issue a marriage license and can legally refuse to do, it becomes the same situation: SSM being legal on paper, but in practice it could become impossible for many people.

While I certainly cede your points about the difference between states being huge, there is still a similar backlash in many liberal states. Lets not forget that Prop 8 was passed in California, and that there was a very strong, concerted effort in what was a very liberal state. Likewise what's happening in Washington state, which had laws protecting trans people for over a decade, but has recently seen an extreme push to have them repealed. Plenty of friends of mine in Seattle have been quite shocked at the recent rise in LGBT attitudes even there, including one friend who had moved there from Florida. I may come across a little alarmist, but talking to friends about what's happening in the states, it really does give me cause for concern. Especially when a lot of the anti-LGBT legislation is specifically targetting trans people as a way of undermining broader anti-discrimination protections. That's something that I certainly wouldn't put past the Iona crowd here, turning towards trans people as their target.

Except states are allowed to restrict abortion. A supreme court case in the early 1990s allowed it. This not a state issue, it is a ruling from the Federal level. Abortion is legal in all states. States are within their rights to restrict these rights. This issue is currently going through the courts.

Except a county clerk cant deny a person a marriage license. That is a federal issue and Federal level decision trump state issues. Look at Kim Davis who refused to issue a marriage license. The Federal Government stepped in and dealt with her. Religious freedom laws will not matter,as you must follow Federal laws.

Prop 8 was marginally passed and was funded by the LDS church in Utah. It had nothing do with the value of Californians. Most American actually now support SSM.

I can understand your concern with your anecdotal stories about LGBT rights in the US. But the Federal US Government has never so tolerant to LGBT individuals. Gayborhoods are disappearing, as America as a whole is far more accepting and there is no need for LGBT people to segment themselves from society.

The actions of a few US state can't tar the entire US. Parts of the US are far more liberal than even Dublin is eg NYC actually is trying to eliminate MSM HIV infections versus our Government who barely fund 2 STI clinics in Dublin. US States are entitled to do whatever they want unless the Federal Government says underwise. You may not agree with it. But that is just how the US is governed.Saying they shouldnt be allowed to goes against the how principle of how the United States were formed. The Federal Government in the US has changed hugely in the last decade eg repealing DOMA, allowing SSM, giving more federal adoptive rights to the Same sex couples, etc.

fran17

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

So Links didn't say that basically

Well Joey if you review my post you'll see it was a question I asked,as it ended with a question mark.I'm merely trying to ascertain if the lgbt community believe that men and women of faith should,if refusing to do so on religious beliefs,be forced by law to comply with these requests.

baby and crumble

fran17 wrote: »

Well Joey if you review my post you'll see it was a question I asked,as it ended with a question mark.I'm merely trying to ascertain if the lgbt community believe that men and women of faith should,if refusing to do so on religious beliefs,be forced by law to comply with these requests.

None of us individual posters on a message board can speak for the entire community. So everything here are individual opinions.

Personally, I believe that all citizens should be bound by the exact same laws and no one should be exempt from following a law because of a belief they hold. Whether that belief is of a religious nature or not is of no consequence. Why should I be treated differently in a shop or hotel than my brother, because someone I have no connection to believes that someone thousands of years ago said something that cannot be proven?

By the way, please don't take what I am saying as a dismissal of faith. I have no problem whatsoever with individuals having faith in a religious being. However, if by doing so they break the democratically sanctioned law of the land which all other citizens who do not share that particular belief are made to obey then that is wrong.

fran17

baby and crumble wrote: »

None of us individual posters on a message board can speak for the entire community. So everything here are individual opinions.

Personally, I believe that all citizens should be bound by the exact same laws and no one should be exempt from following a law because of a belief they hold. Whether that belief is of a religious nature or not is of no consequence. Why should I be treated differently in a shop or hotel than my brother, because someone I have no connection to believes that someone thousands of years ago said something that cannot be proven?

By the way, please don't take what I am saying as a dismissal of faith. I have no problem whatsoever with individuals having faith in a religious being. However, if by doing so they break the democratically sanctioned law of the land which all other citizens who do not share that particular belief are made to obey then that is wrong.

Well thank you for both your opinion and your respect for peoples religious beliefs.I must say,from this forum,that is a breath of fresh air.
I was very curious about this topic as throughout our own SSM referendum last year the lgbt groups and those in this forum went to great lengths as to allay peoples fears of this issue arising.They spoke very clearly regarding how they never could see,or never would wish to see,something like this forced on people of religious beliefs.
On this thread as a whole,well making an assertion that this could be replicated,or a backlash seen,in Ireland is scaremongering at best.There is absolutely no appetite in any section of Irish society to pursue such an issue.And considering the shocking statistics about young lgbt peoples mental health which we received last week,well threads like this and the emotive language used,i feel,is unhelpful.

baby and crumble

fran17 wrote: »

I was very curious about this topic as throughout our own SSM referendum last year the lgbt groups and those in this forum went to great lengths as to allay peoples fears of this issue arising.They spoke very clearly regarding how they never could see,or never would wish to see,something like this forced on people of religious beliefs.

I think it's important though to see the difference between providing for civil marriage (which was the actual issue in the referendum) and forcing religions to marry those outside the church teachings. I think it's kind of sad that religions which preach forgiveness and love cannot see that preaching hate and advocating fellow human beings are treated less than might actually go against their true religion. But that's for a different thread. However, I do have a problem with a bakery, or a hotel, or any business refusing service because the person who wants to use that service is gay. I don't honestly see how anyone could argue that's it's ok to refuse to serve a black person if they are neo-nazi white supremacists (which may be as strong a belief for them as religion is for others). Why would that then be ok for a Christian to do so for a gay person?

fran17 wrote: »

On this thread as a whole,well making an assertion that this could be replicated,or a backlash seen,in Ireland is scaremongering at best.There is absolutely no appetite in any section of Irish society to pursue such an issue.And considering the shocking statistics about young lgbt peoples mental health which we received last week,well threads like this and the emotive language used,i feel,is unhelpful.

I think it's important to understand that unless you are gay or trans yourself it would be very easy to say that "that could never happen". As someone who is cisgender but is often misgendered in bathrooms etc I can really understand the fear that trans individuals in particular may be feeling because of developments around bathroom use in North Dakota, for example. It's not enough to think that homophobia doesn't exist anymore because we can get married. It's just not that simple.

Ten of Swords

Georgian governor Nathan Deal has confirmed he will veto HB757

In light of our history, I find it ironic that today some in the religious community feel it necessary to ask government to confer upon them certain rights and protections. If indeed our religious liberty is conferred by God and not by man-made government, we should need the “hands-off” admonition of the First Amendment to our Constitution. When legislative bodies attempt to do otherwise, the inclusions and omissions in their statues can lead to discrimination, even though it may be unintentional. That is too great a risk to take.

Link

Leonard Hofstadter

baby and crumble wrote: »

I think it's important to understand that unless you are gay or trans yourself it would be very easy to say that "that could never happen". As someone who is cisgender but is often misgendered in bathrooms etc I can really understand the fear that trans individuals in particular may be feeling because of developments around bathroom use in North Dakota, for example. It's not enough to think that homophobia doesn't exist anymore because we can get married. It's just not that simple.

QFT. For anyone who thinks we don't suffer from discrimination today, one only has to read any column by David Quinn, where he is still bitter that the haters lost and equality won in the marriage referendum. He always gets a snide reference in about equal marriage (even if the topic at hand had nothing to do with it).

People who think that LGBT individuals don't suffer from discrimination today are living in cloud cuckoo land. Of course it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be, but it's still there, people still say stuff like 'that's so gay'. Now I'm certainly not one for political correctness, but these kind of things can be very hurtful, especially for those in the closet. People are still worried about coming out to their families for fear they won't take it well. People are worried about being openly gay at work for fear it will impact on their chances of getting promoted, or if they do come out, some less supportive colleagues will say they're pushing the 'gay agenda', when all they want is to be able to bring their whole selves to work and not leave part of it behind.

There is still discrimination for LGBT teachers (I'm not sure what one's bedroom preferences have to do with the ability to teach, but someone obviously thinks they do), there is still massive discrimination against LGBT parents or parents who are not religious (just look at how many schools are still controlled by the Catholic Church and/or have a Catholic ethos), and gay men still cannot donate blood - something they can do in very conservative Poland for instance. The last time I checked, there still weren't any kind of educational programmes in schools trying to teach pupils that being LGBT is in fact OK, although I know most of the political parties promised to introduce some sort of initiatives to reduce the amount of homophobic and transphobic bullying that goes on in schools.

Of course the Ireland of 2016 is a far more progressive and tolerant place than I ever thought it would be (compared to even five years ago the change has been remarkable), and of course it is much easier to be openly LGBT in Ireland than in many other countries, but there's still plenty of inequality there.

Going back to America, I'm not so concerned about the rights for cisgender LGB people (Obama just appointed another liberal judge to the Supreme Court and I still believe that Trump will not win), but some of the things that the religious right are trying to do against the Trans community are truly terrifying for anyone with an interest in human rights. It's shocking stuff really.

pl4ichjgy17zwd

This one is so crazy I had to check it wasn't the onion

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2016/03/30/3764798/mississippi-anti-lgbt-bill/

PopePalpatine

Alice Orange Mothball wrote: »

This one is so crazy I had to check it wasn't the onion

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2016/03/30/3764798/mississippi-anti-lgbt-bill/

Mississippi never fails to live up to its stereotype.

Fleawuss

This US movement proves the danger that follows when religion is allowed to be taken seriously. These idiots believe that they have some "divine" sanction for their poisonous bigotry. It all flows from people expecting the state to take their private nonsense seriously in the public forum. The USA is in serious trouble: polarized racially, polarized economically and politically and polarized between science/ reason and the backward stupidity of its religious loons.

baby and crumble

Fleawuss wrote: »

This US movement proves the danger that follows when religion is allowed to be taken seriously. These idiots believe that they have some "divine" sanction for their poisonous bigotry. It all flows from people expecting the state to take their private nonsense seriously in the public forum. The USA is in serious trouble: polarized racially, polarized economically and politically and polarized between science/ reason and the backward stupidity of its religious loons.

The hilarious thing is that they have the whole "separation of Church and State" as this grand ideal, and they actually let more legislation be influenced by religion that we do, I reckon.

Calhoun

http://www.thejournal.ie/bruce-springsteen-cancels-north-carolina-gig-2706434-Apr2016/?utm_source=facebook_short

Great to see support from the boss on a serious topic like this. One of the stupidest laws i have ever heard existing, i don't even get how it is supposed to be policed.

Do people need to start dropping trousers going into the toilet now?

12Phase

I don't think you'll see any rollback on LGBT rights in the Republic of Ireland anyway as that isn't how politics is swinging here at all. It's moving towards centre / centre left all the time.

I would be more worried about Northern Ireland where you've at least one hardcore christian right party, the DUP, which has a lot in common with the US christian right and even the tea party type movements. Although even in NI that is heavily tempered by the rest of the political system which isn't leaning that way and the mainstream UK system which is absolutely not anti-LGBT.

American right wing trends are largely coming from very far right christian ideas about selective interpretations of biblical texts. Most of Ireland doesn't really have anything like that going on.

It goes way beyond LGBT right in the US things like :

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/09/us/indiana-state-trooper-is-fired-for-proselytizing-during-traffic-stops.html?_r=0

An Indiana state trooper has been fired after drivers complained that he gave them more than tickets and a lecture about road rules after pulling them over — he also shared a little religion on the roadside, in one case asking a woman if she had “accepted Jesus Christ as her saviour.”

I honestly cannot see that happening in Ireland. An element of the US is taking the country back to a place we have moved very far away and they are forgetting why Church and State need to be separate things.

From what I can see the Republican Party (or an aspect of it) danced a very dangerous dance of populism with Christian fundamentalism and they've ended up with a situation now where religious laws are being pushed into the civil space.

It's EXTREMELY polarised though. You've a very liberal, progressive USA and one that would bring it back to the days of the inquisition never mind the 1950s and very little middle ground really.

The current presidential candidate selection battle in both parties would show you that fairly clearly!

There has also been a major issue in the US in recent decades where religious belief is a defence for absolutely everything and a firmly held religious belief is being granted some kind of protection from all criticism. That's a huge part of the problem as far as I can see.

What I'm seeing all the time is a bigoted view that is turned into a religious one (often with very questionable religious explanation) and is then put on a pedestal that cannot be knocked.

Links234

GOP cosponsor of anti-trans bathroom bill is a danger to ‘unsuspecting women’, probe finds

A Republican state lawmaker in Tennessee who is pushing to strip transgender people of bathroom rights has been found to be a danger to “unsuspecting women.”

Last week, Tennessee House Speaker Beth Harwell exiled state Rep. Jeremy Durham from his offices at the War Memorial Building and limited his access to other areas after Attorney General Herbert Slatery issued a warning that the lawmaker’s behavior posed “a continuing risk to unsuspecting women who are employed by or interact with the legislature.”

Slatery’s office is leading an investigation into multiple sexual harassment complaints against Durham. Although the investigation is not complete, Slatery said that the warning was necessary because of information learned during interviews with 34 different women.

Shocked, I tell you! Absolutely shocked.

12Phase

"The gentleman (in this case) doth protest too much, methinks"

Good old Shakespeare, he was always a great social observer.

donaghs

Links234 wrote: »

GOP cosponsor of anti-trans bathroom bill is a danger to ‘unsuspecting women’, probe finds

Shocked, I tell you! Absolutely shocked.

"Slatery’s office is leading an investigation into multiple sexual harassment complaints against Durham. Although the investigation is not complete, Slatery said that the warning was necessary because of information learned during interviews with 34 different women. "

And what if this Jeremy Durham were to announce the he wished to known in future as a woman? Perhaps an exception made for (suspected?) sex offenders/pests?

baby and crumble

donaghs wrote: »

"Slatery’s office is leading an investigation into multiple sexual harassment complaints against Durham. Although the investigation is not complete, Slatery said that the warning was necessary because of information learned during interviews with 34 different women. "

And what if this Jeremy Durham were to announce the he wished to known in future as a woman? Perhaps an exception made for (suspected?) sex offenders/pests?

What?

Annasopra

please stay on topic and do not enter an off topic discussion in response to trolling

BoatMad

The U.S. Is a much more oppressively rule orientated society with a virtual police state level of policing. There are myriads of laws on all subjects.

Europe and Ireland in particular is by contrast , more of a "what's not forbidden is allowed "'and Ireland in particular never has enough enforcement anyway ( thank god ) . I see no general anti-lgbt backlash or signs of one

12Phase

I think though sometimes, observing from the outside, people assume the USA is totally homogenous. It's absolutely not and the differences between states in terms of laws, customs and attitudes can be as big or bigger than the differences between EU countries. It's just that they all share the same language and a tighter federal system which makes it seem all more similar to us.

Effectively you're getting a divide that's still almost along civil war lines. The progressive Northeastern states, most of the developed Midwest (Chicago etc) and the very progressive West Coast vs what amount to the old Confederate States and a few really rural areas.

The US system also over-weights very rural areas in the Senate in particular, where each state gets 2 senators regardless of size.

I think given the way it operates, the US Senate is WAY too powerful as it's completely unrepresentative of the majority of Americans, who actually live in the heavily populated East and West Coast areas.

The result of a lot of that is that you're ending up with a huge over-representation of a very rural, religious, conservative aspect of the USA and under-representing of the cities and big population states.

There's a massive divide, a gulf in fact, between attitudes in somewhere like New York, Massachusetts San Francisco, LA etc and somewhere like rural Texas, North Carolina, Alabama etc etc.

American politics has always been hugely polarised. If you go back to the 1960s, the Civil Rights movement and the racist, apartheid regimes that existed in many of the same states that are now ranting and raving about homophobic issues. The same nonsense arguments were used back then as there are today.

Also bear in mind that hardly any developed country has had a president assassinated in office. Many of the theories about why JFK was shot conclude that it was likely because he was too progressive for some people on those issues.

But if you look at the number of assassinations and attempts:

Presidents assassinated: Abraham Lincoln, James A. Garfield, William McKinley, John F. Kennedy.
Attempted assassinations: Andrew Jackson, Lincon, William Howard Taft, Teddy Roosevelt, Herbet Hoover, F. D Roosevelt, Harry Truman, JFK, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, G Bush Senior, Bill Clinton, G W Bush and Barack Obama !

I don't really know *ANY* other Western country with a history like that.

American politics is far from stable and there's always an undercurrent of insane stuff going on and from what I can see a huge lack of consensus.

I don't think this homophobia stuff is anything new though, it's just an extension of a decades / centuries old nonsense between the 'two Americas.'

The rise of Trump as a serious political player is quite frightening. It's very reminiscent of populist rises in Europe of people who turned out to be leaders of authoritarian states and many his policies and much of his rhetoric is very much in that line.

There are plenty of nice, friendly, open minded Americans but there are equally plenty of extremely narrow minded, religious conservatives. I just wouldn't tar the whole country with the same brush.

donaghs

Sorry,

baby and crumble wrote: »

What?

Sorry, was far too vague, and slightly off topic, from the OPs post on the Mississipi Law. But others raised the SC law which refers to the gender/sex debate. I think that needs a separate thread to discuss the implications.

Going back to the OP, is it a backlash? The religious right since the 70s have been very consistant in their aims and beliefs. I think they are on the wrong side of history, but in a federal democracy where they dominate some states it will take time for them to fade into history.

Leonard Hofstadter

Never mind the US, we still have our own problems in Ireland. The thought of Katherine Zappone as a potential future Education Minister is driving Paddy Manning around the bend. I didn't know it was Christian to use such inflammatory language, or to 'organise and harrass' people. I wouldn't have much time for the Catholic Church, but that certainly wasn't the version of Roman Catholicism I was thought when I was younger. Some of the comments are a stark reminder that while we've won the battle, we haven't won the war for true equality yet.

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One eyed Jack

captainspeed wrote: »

Never mind the US, we still have our own problems in Ireland. The thought of Katherine Zappone as a potential future Education Minister is driving Paddy Manning around the bend. I didn't know it was Christian to use such inflammatory language, or to 'organise and harrass' people. I wouldn't have much time for the Catholic Church, but that certainly wasn't the version of Roman Catholicism I was thought when I was younger. Some of the comments are a stark reminder that while we've won the battle, we haven't won the war for true equality yet.

Img1.png

Familiar name jumped out at me from that image, and here's his tweetmap:


https://tweepsmap.com/!TheEvertBopp

L1011

I can't tell if the person making a comment about "one man one vote" is sexist or just thick.

Links234

US Justice Department: HB2 violates federal Civil Rights Act

Thankfully. HB2 was an absolutely monstrous law.

Leonard Hofstadter

You know things are bad when even 'The Donald' was criticising those awful bathroom laws.