Factory query

tismesoitis

Sent 5 u 16 bulls to a factory last week these were weighed every month during finishing. Problem is I am very disappointed with their kill out %. Normally our u grade Bulls would kill out about 58 or 59% . A u= ch bull killed at 54% two u+ bb Bulls did 57 while a poor R- lim did just over 57%. All fats were 2+ up to 3=. The agent is going to "check it out for me on Tuesday " where do I stand folks?? Thanks for replying.

CloughCasey1

tismesoitis wrote: »

Sent 5 u 16 bulls to a factory last week these were weighed every month during finishing. Problem is I am very disappointed with their kill out %. Normally our u grade Bulls would kill out about 58 or 59% . A u= ch bull killed at 54% two u+ bb Bulls did 57 while a poor R- lim did just over 57%. All fats were 2+ up to 3=. The agent is going to "check it out for me on Tuesday " where do I stand folks?? Thanks for replying.

You stand with the cheque in your hand and that's the only satisfaction you will get from them.

cute geoge

I am very green about what happens in meat factories but i know for sure they are all a bunch of gangsters!!!!
In any meat factories can you see your cattle dead weights as they come up the line ,i only kill small number and agent transports them to factory
anyway last year killed a nice wh heifer under 30 months that graded p+ and to insult me more they only gave me cow price for her until i contacted dept of ag. and confirmed that she had no calf.
With all the time and effort farmers put into breeding ,rearing and fattening cattle surely they should make some effort to follow there cattle into the factory to make sure of proper grading and weights

coolshannagh28

tismesoitis wrote: »

Sent 5 u 16 bulls to a factory last week these were weighed every month during finishing. Problem is I am very disappointed with their kill out %. Normally our u grade Bulls would kill out about 58 or 59% . A u= ch bull killed at 54% two u+ bb Bulls did 57 while a poor R- lim did just over 57%. All fats were 2+ up to 3=. The agent is going to "check it out for me on Tuesday " where do I stand folks?? Thanks for replying.

I assume you worked out the KO % from your own live weights as I have never had a live weight from a factory.

tismesoitis

Yes our own weights.

Kovu

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

I assume you worked out the KO % from your own live weights as I have never had a live weight from a factory.

I think you get live weight before KO with ICBF reports. It had me puzzled for a while last week with one animal.

coolshannagh28

tismesoitis wrote: »

Yes our own weights.

This is the main reason I no longer finish commercial cattle there are too many variables beyond the farmers control.
Its Hard to be sure of a reference point in this situation ie your scales could be slightly out or the factories and there is wastage in cattle between your farm and being killed ,however all being equal its ridiculous that factories don't weigh stock prior to slaughter to give an accurate KO, they may have their reasons!

tismesoitis

I know Cool . It's the same scales we always use and animals were killed within an hour of a 45 minute journey same as always! Thing that gets me the most is how could a R- kill out better than a u= and u+.

blue5000

When did you weigh them, are you estimating the LW from weighing them a month before they were killed? Or did you weigh them the morning they were killed? Gut fill can vary a lot. Has anyone locally got same problem?

mf240

Is it a factory you normally deal with or a new one.

Id say you'll get no hop of them either ways.

greenpetrol

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

This is the main reason I no longer finish commercial cattle there are too many variables beyond the farmers control.
Its Hard to be sure of a reference point in this situation ie your scales could be slightly out or the factories and there is wastage in cattle between your farm and being killed ,however all being equal its ridiculous that factories don't weigh stock prior to slaughter to give an accurate KO, they may have their reasons!

Exactly this !!! Absolutely powerless to the result ! They are killed and you have to take what you get ! We just sell at the mart now and let the factory be someone else's gamble

Sheep breeder

tismesoitis wrote: »

Sent 5 u 16 bulls to a factory last week these were weighed every month during finishing. Problem is I am very disappointed with their kill out %. Normally our u grade Bulls would kill out about 58 or 59% . A u= ch bull killed at 54% two u+ bb Bulls did 57 while a poor R- lim did just over 57%. All fats were 2+ up to 3=. The agent is going to "check it out for me on Tuesday " where do I stand folks?? Thanks for replying.

were the bulls finished or could they take more finish, a neighbour of mine was finishing bulls recently and getting poor killout and finish on the bulls and all down to the meal he was feeding it was not doing the job, the guy from the factory told to change his ration to improve and some difference in the last load of bulls due to feeding a better ration,

Sheep breeder

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

This is the main reason I no longer finish commercial cattle there are too many variables beyond the farmers control.
Its Hard to be sure of a reference point in this situation ie your scales could be slightly out or the factories and there is wastage in cattle between your farm and being killed ,however all being equal its ridiculous that factories don't weigh stock prior to slaughter to give an accurate KO, they may have their reasons!

the factory scales is checked and supervised by a independent body and can not be tampered with.

Sheep breeder

cute geoge wrote: »

I am very green about what happens in meat factories but i know for sure they are all a bunch of gangsters!!!!
In any meat factories can you see your cattle dead weights as they come up the line ,i only kill small number and agent transports them to factory
anyway last year killed a nice wh heifer under 30 months that graded p+ and to insult me more they only gave me cow price for her until i contacted dept of ag. and confirmed that she had no calf.
With all the time and effort farmers put into breeding ,rearing and fattening cattle surely they should make some effort to follow there cattle into the factory to make sure of proper grading and weights

the factory check the cmms for a calving not the dept of ag and have to go by the cmms, where was your agent to fight your case, and did you follow her up the line.

kk.man

I'm not suggesting your agent would do or has done this.

I know of a case where a farmer was like you not happy with weights of his cattle. So after a few disappointing loads followed the cattle to the plant where tag numbers were changed. Let's just say the proverbial hit the fan and it's far from over!

patsy_mccabe

kk.man wrote: »

I'm not suggesting your agent would do or has done this.

I know of a case where a farmer was like you not happy with weights of his cattle. So after a few disappointing loads followed the cattle to the plant where tag numbers were changed. Let's just say the proverbial hit the fan and it's far from over!

Were the tags switched before they got to the factory or were they switched there?

rangler1

greenpetrol wrote: »

Exactly this !!! Absolutely powerless to the result ! They are killed and you have to take what you get ! We just sell at the mart now and let the factory be someone else's gamble

I've never got on better in the mart than the factory, dealers always underestimate the KO of cattle/sheep when they're buying them.

kk.man

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Were the tags switched before they got to the factory or were they switched there?

Before. ..factory not all complicit

cute geoge

Sheep breeder wrote: »

the factory check the cmms for a calving not the dept of ag and have to go by the cmms, where was your agent to fight your case, and did you follow her up the line.

Dont worry i got paid the heifer price after a few calls ,dont have the time to carry the cattle to factory myself even the nearest factory is over 40 miles away .
Wondering do any lads that deliver there cattle to factory ever get to see the dead weights?

Base price

tismesoitis wrote: »

I know Cool . It's the same scales we always use and animals were killed within an hour of a 45 minute journey same as always! Thing that gets me the most is how could a R- kill out better than a u= and u+.

Was the R carcass graded manually or by the "machine".

tismesoitis

Machine . Grades and fat scores are what I was expecting. The last time we weighed them was 15 days before slaughter and their final weight was calculated the same way it always is. The ration is the exact same as the last 5 or 6 batches of bulls sold (we mix our own straights)

tismesoitis

Sheep with the exception of the R- bull they were well finished. He got a bit of a set back and we considered holding on to him for another fortnight but reckoned the extra feed time and expense to deliver 1 on his own to factory wouldn't justify. So again the poorest finished Han the best KO%

QA1

Mainly bullocks here mostly weighed before slaughter and have seen a few times cattle that have got a set back sick lame etc always kill out exceptionaly %wise it make no sense had a lame bullock in feb r grade did near 60 % all the rest 54 to 57% he should be worse% wise not better

coolshannagh28

Sheep breeder wrote: »

the factory scales is checked and supervised by a independent body and can not be tampered with.

As are the grading machines which are a constant bone of contention re proper cleaning maintenance and grading consistency

Bass Reeves

tismesoitis wrote: »

Sheep with the exception of the R- bull they were well finished. He got a bit of a set back and we considered holding on to him for another fortnight but reckoned the extra feed time and expense to deliver 1 on his own to factory wouldn't justify. So again the poorest finished Han the best KO%

QA1 wrote: »

Mainly bullocks here mostly weighed before slaughter and have seen a few times cattle that have got a set back sick lame etc always kill out exceptionaly %wise it make no sense had a lame bullock in feb r grade did near 60 % all the rest 54 to 57% he should be worse% wise not better

Bone weights and cattle that have a set back or lame may not hydrate properly. They can have lower gut fill etc. This could increase killout.

RobinBanks

tismesoitis wrote: »

Sent 5 u 16 bulls to a factory last week these were weighed every month during finishing. Problem is I am very disappointed with their kill out %. Normally our u grade Bulls would kill out about 58 or 59% . A u= ch bull killed at 54% two u+ bb Bulls did 57 while a poor R- lim did just over 57%. All fats were 2+ up to 3=. The agent is going to "check it out for me on Tuesday " where do I stand folks?? Thanks for replying.

That's great fat score for 16 month old bulls. What carcass weight were they?

danjoe

Advice needed please,took stock bull to factory after getting 2 quotes from different factories, when I received cheque it was 30 cent a kilo less than originally quoted, and getting nowhere with factory, ??

blue5000

danjoe wrote: »

Advice needed please,took stock bull to factory after getting 2 quotes from different factories, when I received cheque it was 30 cent a kilo less than originally quoted, and getting nowhere with factory, ??

This sounds like they penalised you for him being over weight, what weight was he? Goalposts are constantly on the move......

Bass Reeves

danjoe wrote: »

Advice needed please,took stock bull to factory after getting 2 quotes from different factories, when I received cheque it was 30 cent a kilo less than originally quoted, and getting nowhere with factory, ??

Did an agent see him before you sold him. What breed of bull was he and how did he grade. Did he lack flesh

blue5000 wrote: »

This sounds like they penalised you for him being over weight, what weight was he? Goalposts are constantly on the move......

Not for stock bulls the more flesh and heavier they weight the more the factory's make out of them. It is similar to cows. Only reason they might cut them if they were under fleshed and were FS1.

danjoe

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Did an agent see him before you sold him. What breed of bull was he and how did he grade. Did he lack flesh



Not for stock bulls the more flesh and heavier they weight the more the factory's make out of them. It is similar to cows. Only reason they might cut them if they were under fleshed and were FS1.

No agent,booked in myself, graded u2+,limo bull

danjoe

danjoe wrote: »

No agent,booked in myself, graded u2+,limo bull

Edit, ko 595 kgs

Bass Reeves

danjoe wrote: »

No agent,booked in myself, graded u2+,limo bull

danjoe wrote: »

Edit, ko 595 kgs

One of the advantages of using an agent. See no reason he should be penalised as a stockbull. Stockbulls will always kill heavier than young bulls. Even AA and HE bulls kill over 400kgs if they have flesh on them.

Have you talked to the lad who quoted the price. This may be where the issue arises. There can often be mix up with single animals if he was not put in on the day you originally said, But you are entitled to the price quoted.

danjoe

Bass Reeves wrote: »

One of the advantages of using an agent. See no reason he should be penalised as a stockbull. Stockbulls will always kill heavier than young bulls. Even AA and HE bulls kill over 400kgs if they have flesh on them.

Have you talked to the lad who quoted the price. This may be where the issue arises. There can often be mix up with single animals if he was not put in on the day you originally said, But you are entitled to the price quoted.

Trying to get a third party involved to try and sort the issue as im getting nowhere myself, the main thing is that there was very little between the 2 factory quotes initially, though nearly€200 now

tellmeabit

sorry, to butt in, can one ring factory and get quote so? you don't have to use an agent. ring a book them in?
always used an agent, he pays us. but saw a huge difference in the kill weight and the cheque we got last year from one animal.
thanks,

tanko

tellmeabit wrote: »

sorry, to butt in, can one ring factory and get quote so? you don't have to use an agent. ring a book them in?
always used an agent, he pays us. but saw a huge difference in the kill weight and the cheque we got last year from one animal.
thanks,

Of course you can, I've done it both ways but the cheque always came direct from the factory even when an agent booked the cattle in. Is the agent giving you the kill sheet with the weights and grades?

tellmeabit

No. This was a hurt cow. Was advised that I wouldn't get her in, she had dislocated shoulder I say. So he brought her away and gave a cheque week later. At time I was happy but see in Icbf the weights at slaughter. He made more that I on it. Lesson learned. Have couple of stock Bulls to move on so will ring factory and sus out myself tomorro.

Base price

tellmeabit wrote: »

No. This was a hurt cow. Was advised that I wouldn't get her in, she had dislocated shoulder I say. So he brought her away and gave a cheque week later. At time I was happy but see in Icbf the weights at slaughter. He made more that I on it. Lesson learned. Have couple of stock Bulls to move on so will ring factory and sus out myself tomorro.

Factory must issue the cheque in the name of the herd owner not an agent or anyone else. The change was brought in to prevent money laundering a few years ago.

tellmeabit

Ya. Like I said I thought it was good at time spared me cost of vet and or the knackery truck, seeing the animal suffer too long, until I saw what she made after.