An Post Dilemma

Phoenix Wright

So I ordered a piece of artwork that got delivered this morning. I requested the artwork specifically and waited two weeks for it to be completed before paying €18.

It was A3 and cardboard was put in the envelope to prevent it from being bent. In addition, the artist clearly wrote "Please do not bend" at the top of the envelope.

My postman decided to force it through my porch letterbox and now the artwork is ruined.

Should I complain to An Post? I want my money back, but of course it's not the artist's fault. On the other hand, if I were responsible for somebody losing their job I wouldn't feel too good about myself. He's left letters exposed to the rain before and is isn't on either. Is there any chance they'll reimburse me or is there nothing I can do?

stoplooklisten

If it was too big for your letterbox, it probably would have been better sent as a parcel.

ssmith6287

it prob should have been sent in a box

dudara

Speak to the postmaster at your post office

Del2005

Is this not an issue for the sender as opposed to the recipient? The OP has a contract with the sender not An Post. The sender has the contract with An Post.

marklazarcovic

Artwork was improperly packaged im afraid,should have paid more for postage so it would be done right, i see it all the time,books in flimsy paper wrapping,too large pakaging for a item leaving it loose inside,it moves around during sorting/transit and tears a hole in wrapping,sometimes people dont think about that stuff when posting

Phoenix Wright

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Artwork was improperly packaged im afraid,should have paid more for postage so it would be done right, i see it all the time,books in flimsy paper wrapping,too large pakaging for a item leaving it loose inside,it moves around during sorting/transit and tears a hole in wrapping,sometimes people dont think about that stuff when posting

Of course, I'd tend to agree with you in hindsight! Its a case of lesson learned in many ways, but I didn't foresee this happening because I had another picture sent to me with no problems.

But using a large envelope is a valid method of sending an item, it's stated by An Post themselves. http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/downloads/2015/GuidetoPostalRates.pdf

I would have happily picked it up from a depot, there was cardboard inside the envelope too protecting it but when he forced it through that got bent as well.

runawaybishop

Phoenix Wright wrote: »

Of course, I'd tend to agree with you in hindsight! Its a case of lesson learned in many ways, but I didn't foresee this happening because I had another picture sent to me with no problems.

But using a large envelope is a valid method of sending an item, it's stated by An Post themselves. http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/downloads/2015/GuidetoPostalRates.pdf

I would have happily picked it up from a depot, there was cardboard inside the envelope too protecting it but when he forced it through that got bent as well.

It should been put in a cardboard tube, problem is entirely the sellers tbh.

amtc

Either sender or addressee can complain. Basic rule is you should be put back in situation you should have expected. Fill out an m58

TheDriver

An post did what was asked of them -to deliver the item

Lavinia

If it was clearly written on the envelope "do not bend" than it is an An Post issue. I'd definitely go to the post office and ask about my rights about it and if i can lodge a complaint or something.

stoplooklisten

Lavinia wrote: »

If it was clearly written on the envelope "do not bend" than it is an An Post issue. I'd definitely go to the post office and ask about my rights about it and if i can lodge a complaint or something.

I wouldn't think that writing "do not bend" would give any sort of legal standing.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Writing 'Do not bend' is not the way to send something that should not be bent. Just writ g do not bend is a cop out. It was not correctly packaged.

Berberis

I would have thought that it is the vendor who is responsible for organising the delivery of the item to you in proper condition.
They choose to use an post and the item was damaged. So therefore the vendor should send you another one free of charge and ensure this time that they use a delivery method that it arrives in the condition it is suppose to be in.
If An Post cannot guarantee this then the vendor should review their delivery methods. If An Post do guarantee this then it is the vendor who should be the one who brings the problem to An Post.

DMcL1971

I don't get why anyone is blaming the sender. The sender packaged the item correctly. They have no idea what size letterbox you might have or whether you would be home or whether your postal carrier is a gorilla or not. Sure, they could have put it in a cardboard tube, they could have put it between 10 sheets of cardboard, they could have sent it by courier. But all those methods would have been overkill. I's not like they just threw it in a regular envelope and hoped for the best. They put it in an adequate envelope, sandwhiched against cardboard and clearly marked the envelope 'Do Not Bend'.

The postal carrier is entirely to blame. They arrived at your front door, realised that the item was slightly too big to fit, ignored the fact that it was marked 'Do Not Bend' and then proceeded to force the item through the letterbox thereby causing the damage. It might have been understandable if the item had not been marked 'Do No Bend' but seeing as how it was marked they have absolutely no excuse. Everything was perfectly fine with the packaging and delivery until the postal carrier forced it through your letterbox. I presume that their intention was good in that they didn't want to leave you a 'Sorry We Missed' you note and have you go to the sorting office to collect it. But they still should not have done it.

The best thing to do is to go to your local sorting office with the item and its packaging and show it to them. The manager at the sorting office will want to know about this. He will then talk to whoever delivered this. If it is a once off then the postal carrier will know better next time. If they do it regularly then the manager will definitely want to know about this. Seeing as how you say they have left letters sticking out in the rain before it sounds like you might have a lazy postal carrier. They can't improve poor service if no one ever tells them about it.

As for reimbursement, you can ask them but the postal service will more than likely refuse. They will tell you that if the item had been sent using 'Registered Post' then the sender could make a claim but with 'Standard Post' there is no comeback.

DMcL1971

Berberis wrote: »

I would have thought that it is the vendor who is responsible for organising the delivery of the item to you in proper condition.
They choose to use an post and the item was damaged. So therefore the vendor should send you another one free of charge and ensure this time that they use a delivery method that it arrives in the condition it is suppose to be in.
If An Post cannot guarantee this then the vendor should review their delivery methods. If An Post do guarantee this then it is the vendor who should be the one who brings the problem to An Post.

I would agree with this. Complain to the seller and insist on a replacement. The seller should send it again, this time using 'Registered Post' and maybe with stronger packaging to be on the safe side. They will probably insist that you pay for the more expensive postage though.

stoplooklisten

The op knows what size their own letter box is and the size of the painting that they ordered. They should have advised the vendor of same.

the_pen_turner

the post service is 100 % at fault. I think the sender took reasonable care sending the package.
short of putting plywood in there so it couldn't bend no matter what , what could they have done

I buy some woodworking magazines on occasion but a few years ago I decided to subscribe to an American magazine because I would miss it in the shop occasionally.

they would come in an a4 paper envelope. it was perfect for its job
the first 2 magazines were forced through the letterbox by folding the envelope in half . when I opened the magazine the bound edge was broken and the pages torn. the magazine could be read but I was furious .
the a4 envelope fits through the letterbox without folding it

a couple of emails with the magazine laid the blame with the post service. as a gesture they send new ones.
I was at home one day and lay in wait . I watched her pull up and get out of the van. the envelope perfectly flat and undamaged.
I went to the door and opened it as soon as the folded envelope landed in my hand. I pointed it out and all she could say was it was faster to put through the letter box . I tore strips off her . she never damaged it again

the_pen_turner

stoplooklisten wrote: »

The op knows what size their own letter box is and the size of the painting that they ordered. They should have advised the vendor of same.

that's all well and good but when the postman tries to deliver the oversized envelope they should see that it was not going to fit and brought it back to the office. leaving a not stating that's what they were doing

joeysoap

All good advice. Do not bend wont carry any weight as regards compensation, however the lumox who delivered the item might well have a track record of bending such items and it will be the managers job to bring this to his/her attention and to stop them doing it in future. I dont think you have a valid claim but I do think you have a valid complaint. If that makes sense.

runawaybishop

Cardboard isn't strong enough to stop that enevolpe bend, an post terms state the packaging must be suitable. Sender is at fault.

runawaybishop

sugarman wrote: »

I dont agree with those who say it was incorrectly packaged.

Theres protective cardboard backed envelopes with do not bend labeling specially for this.

College degrees are usually sent this way.

My own was bashed through the door and destroyed also, even tho it was sent via registered post and had to signed for.

Ended up having to get a new one issued.

Sure if thats the logic, why bother attaching "Fragile" labeling or "Do not stack" labeling on delicate packages?

Id bring it up with An Post, onus wouldnt be on the seller.

You need to both add a label, such as fragile, and also ensure the packing is sufficient. You can't just chuck an egg in an envelope and write fragile on it and absolve yourself of all responsibility

Spocker

I had a 12' record folded in half so it could be put through the letterbox in the past; a complaint to An Post (at the GPO) resulted in a reply with the message "it was sent by standard post, theres nothing more we will do for you". In hindsight I should have gone to the local post office instead and complained there, at least the postie would have heard

rubadub

I really hope some of the posters here do not handle other peoples property in their jobs.

I would like to see the instructions/training given to postmen. e.g. are they told to look for any signage on packaging at all, or specifically told to ignore it.

VincePP

DMcL1971 wrote: »

I don't get why anyone is blaming the sender. The sender packaged the item correctly.

Puting something in an envelope and writing "do not bend" is not packaging correctly. The postman is delivering hundreds of items a day and simply cannot in anyway be expected to read everything written on an envelope.

The sender should have used a board backed envelope that would have meant it was difficult to bend - but still there is no onus on the postman to ring a doorbell and hope someone is in so that he can deliver an envelope sent at standard rate.

rubadub

Del2005 wrote: »

The sender has the contract with An Post.

Phoenix Wright wrote: »

But using a large envelope is a valid method of sending an item, it's stated by An Post themselves. http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/downloads/2015/GuidetoPostalRates.pdf

runawaybishop wrote: »

an post terms state the packaging must be suitable. Sender is at fault.

These comment presume the sender sent it in Ireland via an post. If he was in the UK it should be royal mail rules/guidelines he looks at.

catbear

I blame the envelop maker entirely. They should have known that someone would send a picture in a letter to a postbox that's too small. They really should be sued for producing envelops that great than the average width of an irish postbox.

runawaybishop

rubadub wrote: »

These comment presume the sender sent it in Ireland via an post. If he was in the UK it should be royal mail rules/guidelines he looks at.

As someone selling goods its in the sellers best interest to ensure their product arrives in good order. There are cardboard tubes designed for shipping this sort if item, they should have been used.