Statue of Sir John Gray

bobbyss

Walking through O'Connell street I saw a statue of Sir John Gray. Who? Sir John Gray. Me neither. Why on our main street have we a statue to this man? Who is he? (No. Never mind. He was probably an administrator or something like that. Don't really want to know. )

Are there any Irishmen and irishwomen who deserve a statue on this prominent location instead of the aforementioned? If we have to rack our brains trying to find out who Gray is then really ... .

Any famous scientist, artist, for example of more immediate note more deserving? Is there a prominent statue to Shaw or Yeats anywhere? A statue of Pearse?

Del.Monte

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gray_%28Irish_politician%29

Google is an amazing invention.

bobbyss

Del.Monte wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gray_%28Irish_politician%29

Google is an amazing invention.

Do you think there are any Irish people who deserve statues in prominent places like Sir John?

Pearse? Bono? Gay Byrne? DeValera ... .

jonniebgood1

Posts moved to a new thread as they had so little to do with where they were posted.

Moderator

pinkypinky

Well, it does seem like history has forgotten him but even a cursory read of the wikipedia says he's totally deserving of his statue, which I note was paid by public subscription and not state funds.

jonniebgood1

The statue of John Gray celebrates his role in bringing water to Dublin.

[/Thomas Farrell was approached by the monument committee to create a memorial. He represented Gray 'in the guise of a Victorian gentleman, complete with open coat, confident stance and a serious yet kindly expression'. The monument did not turn out as originally planned. Initially, it had been designed with a representation of Ireland, complete with harp, on the right hand side of the pedestal and incorporated broken fetters to represent the legislative and social wrongs from which the country had been rescued. There was also to have been a figure of patriotism. The necessity of erecting the monument without delay, however, resulted in the statue featuring the figure of Gray alone. http://www.dublincity.ie/story/day-1879-statue-unveiling

Maybe there should be a water protest against him!!!:D

bobbyss

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Posts moved to a new thread as they had so little to do with where they were posted.

Moderator

Thanks.

Ask 100 people who Sir John Gray was and what his achievement was, well we know what percentage would be able to answer. We never heard of Sir John at school. And the reason was that whatever his contribution to Ireland's development was, it was not as important as others.

I quite like Joyce's statue on North Earl Street but on the main thoroughfare
of our capital city, there stands Sir John. Its size seems to be out of proportion to his contribution. Out of proportion to, for example, James Joyce's our nation's novelist. I am not saying he is not deserving of a statue but not on our main street.
Yeats, our national poet, surely would have been more deserving. Lady Gregory? Butt? John Giles? William Dargan?
I think there is a new book out on Dublin statues. Has anyone read it?

whisky_galore

bobbyss wrote: »

Do you think there are any Irish people who deserve statues in prominent places like Sir John?

Pearse? Bono? Gay Byrne? DeValera ... .

Jedward...Twink...

Trizo

bobbyss wrote: »

Thanks.

Ask 100 people who Sir John Gray was and what his achievement was, well we know what percentage would be able to answer. We never heard of Sir John at school. And the reason was that whatever his contribution to Ireland's development was, it was not as important as others.

I quite like Joyce's statue on North Earl Street but on the main thoroughfare
of our capital city, there stands Sir John. Its size seems to be out of proportion to his contribution. Out of proportion to, for example, James Joyce's our nation's novelist. I am not saying he is not deserving of a statue but not on our main street.
Yeats, our national poet, surely would have been more deserving. Lady Gregory? Butt? John Giles? William Dargan?
I think there is a new book out on Dublin statues. Has anyone read it?

I would know because I take an interest in history and that of our capital city.
Were it not for the fresh water scheme brought to Dublin many of those you listed may not have ancestors that survived through cholera, typhus, dysentery and other disease which all ravaged the population in the 19th Century. His contribution was to save thousands of lives of everyday Dubliners for which he is rightly appreciated.

Just for that alone he should be remembered and that’s before you get into all his other achievements political and otherwise.

When I first read this thread I thought it was a windup but if nothing else it has brought to the attention someone who was very important to Dublin.

funnily enough you aren't the first person to mention replacing his statue in favour of the likes of Pearse -
The Pearse pressure group continued to campaign for the placing of a monument to Pearse on O’Connell Street, even if the Pillar site itself was off-limits. Councillor Pat Carroll reportedly pondered if it would be possible “to take down one of the monuments in O’Connell Street, such as that of John Gray, which did not seem to be too important.”

bobbyss

Trizo wrote: »

I would know because I take an interest in history and that of our capital city.
Were it not for the fresh water scheme brought to Dublin many of those you listed may not have ancestors that survived through cholera, typhus, dysentery and other disease which all ravaged the population in the 19th Century. His contribution was to save thousands of lives of everyday Dubliners for which he is rightly appreciated.

Just for that alone he should be remembered and that’s before you get into all his other achievements political and otherwise.

When I first read this thread I thought it was a windup but if nothing else it has brought to the attention someone who was very important to Dublin.

funnily enough you aren't the first person to mention replacing his statue in favour of the likes of Pearse -
The Pearse pressure group continued to campaign for the placing of a monument to Pearse on O’Connell Street, even if the Pillar site itself was off-limits. Councillor Pat Carroll reportedly pondered if it would be possible “to take down one of the monuments in O’Connell Street, such as that of John Gray, which did not seem to be too important.”

I have no interest whatsoever in having a statue for Pearse erected.

I was struck by the size of Gray's statue in relation to his anonymity.

I thought to myself Yeats, for example, is a world renown poet. Should't he be there instead of you? Yeats certainly would have more resonance with Irish people.

There are many people, like Gray, who have made contributions to Irish life.
For example,
Wolfe Tone
Robert Emmet
Issac Butt
William Dargan
Alexander Nimmo
Lady Gregory
Rowan Hamilton
Jedward
Twink

It is the value you place on that contribution that is important.

jonniebgood1

bobbyss wrote: »

I have no interest whatsoever in having a statue for Pearse erected.

I was struck by the size of Gray's statue in relation to his anonymity.

I thought to myself Yeats, for example, is a world renown poet. Should't he be there instead of you? Yeats certainly would have more resonance with Irish people.

There are many people, like Gray, who have made contributions to Irish life.
For example,
Wolfe Tone
Robert Emmet
Issac Butt
William Dargan
Alexander Nimmo
Lady Gregory
Rowan Hamilton
Jedward
Twink

It is the value you place on that contribution that is important.

Perhaps Bobby you are proving the worth in a statue of Gray if even a few people look into why he is remembered in statue form. Have you now read about Gray. If so what do you think of what he did for Dublin in comparison to some of the other people you mention? His work may not be as controversial as some but this doesn't mean it is less worthy of memorial. In fact it is good to have a statue for a non political achievement.

bobbyss

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Perhaps Bobby you are proving the worth in a statue of Gray if even a few people look into why he is remembered in statue form. Have you now read about Gray. If so what do you think of what he did for Dublin in comparison to some of the other people you mention? His work may not be as controversial as some but this doesn't mean it is less worthy of memorial. In fact it is good to have a statue for a non political achievement.

I hope so because when someone makes a contribution to society, and a contribution as important as Gray's, as per your previous post, it should be acknowledged.

100% agreed. That is why I included some neutrals- as it were. A strong case can be made for having only these kinds of statues, as soldiers, politicians and so on have been the cause of death and destruction.

No I can't comment on Gray's achievements as I know nothing about them and have not read anything about him either.

Did Lady Gregory/Yeats/Nimmo/Hamilton make a more important contribution to Irish society (not just Dublin society) do you think and do you think that they are deserving a statue as large and central as Sir John's?
The question is rhetorical of course. The answer depends, as I said, on what you value.

KingBrian2

Their might be a case to give Bobby Sands some statue or plaque to honour his name. Obviously it would be controversial so you would have to have cooperation with Northern Ireland to make it possible.

jonniebgood1

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Their might be a case to give Bobby Sands some statue or plaque to honour his name. Obviously it would be controversial so you would have to have cooperation with Northern Ireland to make it possible.

That would indeed be controversial, and more likely to cause division than any unity. It makes the case more for why someone such as john Gray is more suited for this type of memorial.

tabbey

There are few people more deserving of a statue in our main boulevard than Sir John Gray.

It was the medical profession which identified a need for clean water, and the engineers who engineered / constructed it. What Gray did was provide the political will and persuasion to get the corporation to implement the project.

Without the support and work of Gray, tens of thousands of Irish people would have died unnecessarily.

Apart from water, Sir John Gray was something we lacked politically in the mid 19th century, a protestant nationalist, working for the entire population. A man who published a newspaper supportive of constitutional nationalism.

Many Irish people worship Tone and Emmet, Gray was from the same mould, and achieved real improvement in living conditions

Eugene Norman

bobbyss wrote: »

I hope so because when someone makes a contribution to society, and a contribution as important as Gray's, as per your previous post, it should be acknowledged.

100% agreed. That is why I included some neutrals- as it were. A strong case can be made for having only these kinds of statues, as soldiers, politicians and so on have been the cause of death and destruction.

No I can't comment on Gray's achievements as I know nothing about them and have not read anything about him either.

Did Lady Gregory/Yeats/Nimmo/Hamilton make a more important contribution to Irish society (not just Dublin society) do you think and do you think that they are deserving a statue as large and central as Sir John's?
The question is rhetorical of course. The answer depends, as I said, on what you value.

Here's what wiki said.

Sir John Gray Knt MD JP, sometimes spelled John Grey (13 July 1815 – 9 April 1875)[1] was an Irish physician, surgeon, newspaper proprietor, journalist and politician. Gray was active both in municipal and national government for much of his life, and had nationalist ideals[2] – which he expressed as owner of the Freeman's Journal, chairman of the Dublin Corporation Water Works Committee between 1863 and 1875, and Member of Parliament in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland for Kilkenny city from 1865 until his death. He was a supporter of Daniel O'Connell, and later of Charles Stewart Parnell

Not very British. Thanks for bringing him up. It's nice that once important men now forgotten unfairly be remembered.

Jesus.

bobbyss wrote: »

Ask 100 people who Sir John Gray was and what his achievement was, well we know what percentage would be able to answer. We never heard of Sir John at school. And the reason was that whatever his contribution to Ireland's development was, it was not as important as others.

Seriously? What you were taught as a youngster is infallible?

Do you believe everything they taught you as a child? How much do you reckon the tooth fairy will leave you when your teeth start to fall out.......again?

4ensic15

Did you have a tap in your school? Flush toilets?

bobbyss

My last post was stupidly put I have to say. What I actually meant to say was that his contribution to Irish society is not seen as important as the contribution of others.

School history has a major part to play in this. Sir John, when I was doing my LC, (pre internet days) did not, as I recall, even feature in any of the texts that I used. I remember there was about ten lines of a paragraph given to William Dargan and the railways. I remember too that a question in the LC paper was to write an essay on the development of the railways in Ireland. In my time whatever the book covered you did in the exam. My history teacher would never have thought of giving us extra material on any aspect of the course.

Jesus.

You've just confirmed what I posted earlier. You seem to think that whatever your curriculum and your teacher in school taught dictates what matters and what does not. I suggest to you Sir that that's an awful argument. Truly awful. I don't mean any disrespect but surely since you came of age you began to think for yourself? Perhaps the curriculum should be modified to include Sir John? Perhaps it already has been since you were a kid?

C'mon Bro surely you can do better than that?

bobbyss

Jesus. wrote: »

You've just confirmed what I posted earlier. You seem to think that whatever your curriculum and your teacher in school taught dictates what matters and what does not. I suggest to you Sir that that's an awful argument. Truly awful. I don't mean any disrespect but surely since you came of age you began to think for yourself? Perhaps the curriculum should be modified to include Sir John? Perhaps it already has been since you were a kid?

C'mon Bro surely you can do better than that?

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post or perhaps you have missed my point. John Gray matters. That much is clear from posts above. I was lamenting the fact that in my day that so little of the LC History course was given over to social history: John Gray's contribution to Irish society was never mentioned at all, to the best of my memory. The work of Dargan and Railway development was given about ten lines and then you could have been faced with an essay to write on the Railways. The dearth of information in the text books in my time was profound.
And because there was so little information available it was not a viable question to take in the exam. This is what I mean. To suggest that what only matters is what the curriculum or teacher focuses on is silly. For example, we never did the Eastern Question in LC. We seemed to have skipped France between the wars as well. Why? It was the teacher's decision. He would have had his reasons. I would not say that because of that these topics did not matter-which is where I think you are at.

Hopefully, this clarifies things.