Unity Sand Vase? Wha'?

looksee

I was just reading on another site about a couple from the US wanting to have a celtic handfasting in Ireland but that the families were objecting as this celtic ceremony had been 'adopted' by pagans, and the families were on one side 'old school' whatever that is, and on the other, Baptist.

The couple wanted the ceremony as an alternative to the 'more usual' (presumably Christian) ceremony of a Unity Sand Vase.

Ok. First question, what kind of religious is a Unity Sand Vase ceremony, and how is it less pagan than tying hands together with multicoloured cords?

Second, what were the Celts if not pagan?

Third, if you have already had a wedding ceremony, what is the point of a handfasting? How many vows do you need?

Nodin

looksee wrote: »

I was just reading on another site about a couple from the US wanting to have a celtic handfasting in Ireland but that the families were objecting as this celtic ceremony had been 'adopted' by pagans, and the families were on one side 'old school' whatever that is, and on the other, Baptist.

The couple wanted the ceremony as an alternative to the 'more usual' (presumably Christian) ceremony of a Unity Sand Vase.

Ok. First question, what kind of religious is a Unity Sand Vase ceremony, and how is it less pagan than tying hands together with multicoloured cords?

Second, what were the Celts if not pagan?

Third, if you have already had a wedding ceremony, what is the point of a handfasting? How many vows do you need?

Me, I'd use two cans of draught stout meself.
http://www.weddingfavoursinvitations.com/Unity-Sand-Ceremony.html

I have to say it has a new agey California smell to it.

lazygal

I find the lighting of candles and sundry other bits at weddings equally baffling.

The couple lights a candle each, then a bit later they light one together. Wha?

Nodin

lazygal wrote: »

I find the lighting of candles and sundry other bits at weddings equally baffling.

The couple lights a candle each, then a bit later they light one together. Wha?

It means that they promise to burn together forever or something.

lazygal

Nodin wrote: »

It means that they promise to burn together forever or something.

Like in hell?

Nodin

lazygal wrote: »

Like in hell?

No idea. That's what I'd make of it for the laugh, but then again I'm a header. Ye could have this as the wedding song.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lIWWzvIdUU

oldrnwisr

looksee wrote: »

Ok. First question, what kind of religious is a Unity Sand Vase ceremony, and how is it less pagan than tying hands together with multicoloured cords?

It's a nod to Genesis 2:24 and, more importantly, to Jesus' reference to it in Matthew 19:4-6

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh"

It's a flaky idea I know, but hey that's Christianity.

looksee wrote: »

Second, what were the Celts if not pagan?

Remember that this is a country filled with people who think that Jesus was white, where some of them think that Adam and Eve came from Missouri, where less than half the population even have a passport. Cultural literacy is not one of their strong points.

looksee wrote: »

Third, if you have already had a wedding ceremony, what is the point of a handfasting? How many vows do you need?

Oneupmanship. It's like what Jay Leno said on Top Gear about why people buy a Prius:

"In America, we like everyone to know about the good work we're doing anonymously."

The couple want to show that they're even more in love and even more committed than all the other couples out there.

wokingvoter

oldrnwisr wrote: »

It's a nod to Genesis 2:24 and, more importantly, to Jesus' reference to it in Matthew 19:4-6

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh"

It's a flaky idea I know, but hey that's Christianity.




Remember that this is a country filled with people who think that Jesus was white, where some of them think that Adam and Eve came from Missouri, where less than half the population even have a passport. Cultural literacy is not one of their strong points.




Oneupmanship. It's like what Jay Leno said on Top Gear about why people buy a Prius:

"In America, we like everyone to know about the good work we're doing anonymously."

The couple want to show that they're even more in love and even more committed than all the other couples out there.

Plus if they (either the bride or groom or both) have egos like Mr Trump then they enjoyed being King and Queen of The World on their wedding day and have spotted another opportunity to be the centre of the universe for their loved ones

recedite

Nodin wrote: »

Me, I'd use two cans of draught stout meself.
http://www.weddingfavoursinvitations.com/Unity-Sand-Ceremony.html

I have to say it has a new agey California smell to it.

I thought I'd seen it all when Ballygowan started selling water to Irish people. But now I see a small test tube of "100% Irish sand" for a new age wedding is a mere €8.
I'm off down to the beach with a few buckets and a spade...

Absolam

oldrnwisr wrote: »

It's a nod to Genesis 2:24 and, more importantly, to Jesus' reference to it in Matthew 19:4-6

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh"

It's a flaky idea I know, but hey that's Christianity.

I thought it was supposed to be a revival of a supposedly ancient Native American wedding tradition?
Just as handfasting is supposedly a revival of ancient Celtic wedding tradition... one being as spurious as the other I suspect.

Possibly their objection is more to the modern 'pagan' (read as 'hippy Wiccans') movement who are generally seen as anti Christian in the States, rather than to actual pagans, who would have been anyone who wasn't Christian, Jewish or Muslim but are obviously now historical and therefore to be appreciated as quaint and charmingly olde rather than threatening; ie dubious provenance sand stuff adopted by Christians good, dubious provenance ribbon stuff adopted by Wiccans bad. Maybe?

At the end of the day you can find any kind of mental you fancy in the US, so there may be no great value in trying to deconstruct the motivation behind this particular instance...

looksee

oldrnwisr wrote: »

It's a nod to Genesis 2:24 and, more importantly, to Jesus' reference to it in Matthew 19:4-6

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh sandcastle"

It's a flaky idea I know, but hey that's Christianity.

ftfy

oldrnwisr

Absolam wrote: »

I thought it was supposed to be a revival of a supposedly ancient Native American wedding tradition?
Just as handfasting is supposedly a revival of ancient Celtic wedding tradition... one being as spurious as the other I suspect.

I don't know, the only reference to Native American in your link is:

"The wedding service I celebrated for Susan and Gary was a beautiful combination of a sand ceremony and Native American imagery & poetry."

This indicates that the sand ceremony was a separate component from the Native American features. However, it is entirely possible that the ceremony is yet another ancient rite that was appropriated by Christianity.

Absolam wrote: »

Possibly their objection is more to the modern 'pagan' (read as 'hippy Wiccans') movement who are generally seen as anti Christian in the States, rather than to actual pagans, who would have been anyone who wasn't Christian, Jewish or Muslim but are obviously now historical and therefore to be appreciated as quaint and charmingly olde rather than threatening; ie dubious provenance sand stuff adopted by Christians good, dubious provenance ribbon stuff adopted by Wiccans bad. Maybe?

Possibly. Probably in fact. The term pagan has fluctuated over time from meaning a non-proseltysing Christian to a pantheistic rural inhabitant to any non-Christian. But like I said, America is not the bastion of cultural literacy. There's a very sheep and goats kind of binary view that's prevalent in the USA.

Absolam wrote: »

At the end of the day you can find any kind of mental you fancy in the US, so there may be no great value in trying to deconstruct the motivation behind this particular instance...

True, bit I wasn't attempting to deconstruct it, I was answering looksee's question as to why this couple would have chosen this extra rite on top of their wedding.

Absolam

oldrnwisr wrote: »

I don't know, the only reference to Native American in your link is: "The wedding service I celebrated for Susan and Gary was a beautiful combination of a sand ceremony and Native American imagery & poetry."
This indicates that the sand ceremony was a separate component from the Native American features. However, it is entirely possible that the ceremony is yet another ancient rite that was appropriated by Christianity.

Apologies; other links that indicate the belief that it comes from Native American ceremonies are
Sacred Celebrations
Unity Sand Ceremony blogspot
Unity Sand Ceremony.net
Sandsational Sparkle
Shorechic
etc etc...

oldrnwisr wrote: »

True, bit I wasn't attempting to deconstruct it, I was answering looksee's question as to why this couple would have chosen this extra rite on top of their wedding.

Actually I was more referring to Looksees question, attempting to deconstruct the families stated objections to the wedding, which I suspect may not yield any great value.

looksee

The questions were pretty much rhetorical, and yes, I agree that none of the discussion/ answers/ reasons for anything will yield any great value! Though that stuff about a Native American custom is interesting, especially as the Native Americans were not particularly noted for being Christian.

Absolam

looksee wrote: »

The questions were pretty much rhetorical, and yes, I agree that none of the discussion/ answers/ reasons for anything will yield any great value! Though that stuff about a Native American custom is interesting, especially as the Native Americans were not particularly noted for being Christian.

I don't think they were particularly noted for using sand in wedding ceremonies either.... I suspect it has far more to do with wedding planners making money than either Christians or Native Americans.

Nodin

Absolam wrote: »

I don't think they were particularly noted for using sand in wedding ceremonies either.... I suspect it has far more to do with wedding planners making money than either Christians or Native Americans.

I suspect it appeals to a certain crowd......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmu_tDCOY2Y

Absolam

Goddamn hippies messin' up my backyard...

Esel

Sand? At a wedding?

Fuppin' stuff gets everywhere... :eek:

Samaris

looksee wrote: »

Third, if you have already had a wedding ceremony, what is the point of a handfasting? How many vows do you need?

Ah sure now, you wouldn't be really married if you didn't have the church ceremony. It'd be practically indaycent!

But yeah, one wedding to reassure the religious in the family that your children are a) actually yours and not demonic entities masquerading as children (although that can be hard to tell anyway) and b) schoolworthy and then whatever ceremony actually fits yourself and your partner, I guess.