Increased Demand for Teachers

Languagehouse

Hi All,

According to the census figures we are experiencing a strong population growth trend.
"...high birth rates mean numbers are likely to soar by 30 per cent over the next 12 years" (Irish Times 21/03/2016)
Teachers have secured funding for the growing school-age population. (Good News!)

So it seems this could be a good time to train to be a teacher - has this been a factor in anyone's decision to become a teacher?

spurious

I hope not. The same old rubbish has been spouted for years, while an enormous backlog of qualified teachers builds up, spewed out by Hibernia and others.

Languagehouse

Thanks for reply Spurious. I was interested to see what some of the motivational factors may be for people deciding to pursue a career in teaching.

mtoutlemonde

Languagehouse wrote: »

Thanks for reply Spurious. I was interested to see what some of the motivational factors may be for people deciding to pursue a career in teaching.

Teaching is a vocation - if it's something you always wanted to do then you will do it. That is my motivation. Some people's motivation is the long holidays, the secure job (which it isn't), the cushy number it is (which its not) and the pay (which has been cut drastically).
I can see demand for teachers in the future because people are soon going to realise that paying over €10000 and two years for a PME to sit at home and wait for the phone to ring is not worth it. Then we will only see people who have a genuine interest in teaching applying.

r93kaey5p2izun

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Teaching is a vocation - if it's something you always wanted to do then you will do it. That is my motivation. Some people's motivation is the long holidays, the secure job (which it isn't), the cushy number it is (which its not) and the pay (which has been cut drastically).
I can see demand for teachers in the future because people are soon going to realise that paying over €10000 and two years for a PME to sit at home and wait for the phone to ring is not worth it. Then we will only see people who have a genuine interest in teaching applying.

Or you will only see those who are independently wealthy or can rely on a spouse's income or on parents for financial support applying, regardless of their interests.

Having a genuine interest and expecting to be able to support yourself in a professional career aren't mutually exclusive. If anything I think many of the most suitable candidates with a genuine interest will be deterred, leaving a far higher proportion of those who can afford to be in it for the holidays or the bit of casual part time work.

SheldonC17

What is the starting salary for a primary teacher after tax?

spurious

SheldonC17 wrote: »

What is the starting salary for a primary teacher after tax?

You mean if they get a full time job?

After tax will depend on your own situation and credits, but here is the scale: http://www.into.ie/pay/PayScales/

Casual daily subbing will be paid on a different scale.

SheldonC17

spurious wrote: »

You mean if they get a full time job?

After tax will depend on your own situation and credits, but here is the scale: http://www.into.ie/pay/PayScales/

Casual daily subbing will be paid on a different scale.

Of course a full time job will be hard got but that's the risk people that want to be in the profession are willing to take.

31k doesn't seem too bad either.

spurious

One or two day's subbing a week is not quite so good.

By all means go for it, but don't think there's something special that will happen to allow you to get a full-time job ahead of an experienced longer qualified teacher.

Go into it with your eyes open.

byhookorbycrook

There are hundreds of qualified and experienced primary teachers unemployed. When you see posts in primary subbing on educationposts posting "for luck" you need to seriously consider if a) you could survive on a day a week of work and b) if you could travel anywhere in Ireland for a few weeks work.


ETA The new SEN model for primary schools is going to see huge amounts of primary teachers losing jobs, all of whom would be ahead of you in getting long term work.

acequion

To be honest I'm a bit dubious about this whole "vocation" thing. While it might sound nice I'm not so sure that it does or should motivate people to become teachers.

It may be vocational to teach and help the disadvantaged, however a lot of teaching is far from that,it's about coaching youngsters to get maximum points for plum careers. And nothing wrong with that either,but that's far from a vocation.

I would cite motivational factors nowadays as love of subject, love of working with the young, holidays would still be high on the agenda but forget pay!!

Yes the time will come when the country will be crying out for teachers,as has already happened in the UK. Maybe then and only then will we see some reversal of the drastic cuts of the conditions that used to be big motivators into the profession. Only time will tell.

amacca

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

ETA The new SEN model for primary schools is going to see huge amounts of primary teachers losing jobs, all of whom would be ahead of you in getting long term work.

How so? not challenging btw, just curious, I know more about second level than primary.

byhookorbycrook

Schools will get 15% of current allocations and then have to make a case for extra resources based on various factors. And we all know how that goes...

mtoutlemonde

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Schools will get 15% of current allocations and then have to make a case for extra resources based on various factors. And we all know how that goes...

I may be wrong and open to correction but I think this already happens in post primary where schools get their allocation and in September apply for concessionary hours.

byhookorbycrook

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I may be wrong and open to correction but I think this already happens in post primary where schools get their allocation and in September apply for concessionary hours.

I think you might be confusing general allocation hours and then applying for extra resource hours. In primary at least, the "new model" will do away with having separate allocations for each, so no ring-fenced hours for children with specific SEN. This will mean schools having to prove a case for extra hours for each individual, so lots of extra paperwork, to be told that the child is managing ok as it is to date and no need.

mtoutlemonde

From the TUI Facebook page from Irish Times stating that there will be a demand for teachers in certain subjects.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/tui-warns-it-will-be-hard-to-get-teachers-in-some-subjects-1.2590016

Bananaleaf

State exams commission crying out for examiners

https://www.examinations.ie/

I dunno, if the pay was worth it even in the slightest .....

They have started adjusting June invigilators' mileage pay by deciding to only pay them mileage from either home or school they work in (whichever is closest to their centre) I know they do this for inservice and that's fine, but for State exams when you'd otherwise NOT be going into work??? [Source - a colleague had it happen to them - I have nothing more concrete than that]

mtoutlemonde

Bananaleaf wrote: »

State exams commission crying out for examiners

https://www.examinations.ie/

I dunno, if the pay was worth it even in the slightest .....

They have started adjusting June invigilators' mileage pay by deciding to only pay them mileage from either home or school they work in (whichever is closest to their centre) I know they do this for inservice and that's fine, but for State exams when you'd otherwise NOT be going into work??? [Source - a colleague had it happen to them - I have nothing more concrete than that]

Yeah that happened last year. For superintending they are also placing you closer to your home (well for me anyway). I corrected last year and will be doing it again this year as I will be unemployed but if I got a job in the school I worked in this year - I would be closer to Athlone so I would get paid from my school and not from my home which has considerable difference.

Just clicked that link and its not the correct page - it links to results page. The correct one is: https://www.examinations.ie/?l=en&mc=re&sc=lwe
Note the word urgent.

spurious

That's what happens when you push and push people while cutting the already not great pay rates.

Without mentioning any subjects or levels i know there were subjects last year where there were numerous revisions to the marking scheme, resulting in lots of extra work for no extra pay. It does not surprise me people are not doing it again.

Department take note.

Boober Fraggle

spurious wrote: »

That's what happens when you push and push people while cutting the already not great pay rates.

Without mentioning any subjects or levels i know there were subjects last year where there were numerous revisions to the marking scheme, resulting in lots of extra work for no extra pay. It does not surprise me people are not doing it again.

Department take note.

I think they figure it's a short term problem for them. Once we are correcting our own junior Certs, they won't need as many correctors.

evolving_doors

Ya I'd concur with the above, I think it'd suit dept. Just fine to say that they were cutting back on Jc state exams as they couldn't ensure a supply of correctors. Thats just my conspiracy at the mo.

Bananaleaf

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ya I'd concur with the above, I think it'd suit dept. Just fine to say that they were cutting back on Jc state exams as they couldn't ensure a supply of correctors. Thats just my conspiracy at the mo.

It's not a conspiracy - they are more or less saying this exact thing themselves via the correspondence they have been sending to some schools.

I know of a principal who was contacted by the dept and told that if a teacher from their school didn't go out as a practical examiner that they wouldn't be allocated an examiner for their school. I saw the letter with my own two eyes.

Since when has the onus been on principals to recruit on behalf of the Dept? Oh, that's right, the dept have clocked-out already on this one.

Also - got an email from TUI this afternoon pleading with us to sign up to be correctors, assuring us that there are "many other positive benefits" to correcting, not just the extra income !!!???? Eh, thanks TUI?

Mardy Bum

Bananaleaf wrote: »

.

Also - got an email from TUI this afternoon pleading with us to sign up to be correctors, assuring us that there are "many other positive benefits" to correcting, not just the extra income !!!???? Eh, thanks TUI?

I'd love to have heard the conversation/seen the email that the DoE sent to TUI head office requesting that.

Boober Fraggle

Bananaleaf wrote: »

It's not a conspiracy - they are more or less saying this exact thing themselves via the correspondence they have been sending to some schools.

I know of a principal who was contacted by the dept and told that if a teacher from their school didn't go out as a practical examiner that they wouldn't be allocated an examiner for their school. I saw the letter with my own two eyes.

Since when has the onus been on principals to recruit on behalf of the Dept? Oh, that's right, the dept have clocked-out already on this one.

?

That's a completely different issue. Teachers need to be allowed to go out examining practicals and orals by their principals. Many principals don't allow it because it is hassle for them to get a sub for the week.

evolving_doors

Boober Fraggle wrote: »

That's a completely different issue. Teachers need to be allowed to go out examining practicals and orals by their principals. Many principals don't allow it because it is hassle for them to get a sub for the week.

In fairness though, needs of the school comes first.
Say that teacher leaving to examine has 4 exam groups (between 3Rd and 6th yrs).. Who is going to pick up the slack and get up to speed with those classes who will be without their regular teacher during their own practicals/orals?
Throw in a maternity/sick leave at either side of that period and you could see why parents might start complaining.

But in principle I do think all teachers should be afforded the opportunity to do practicals/orals.

Bananaleaf

Boober Fraggle wrote: »

That's a completely different issue. Teachers need to be allowed to go out examining practicals and orals by their principals. Many principals don't allow it because it is hassle for them to get a sub for the week.

No it's not a different issue - the teacher in question didn't apply to be an examiner. It wasn't as if this person wanted to go and wasn't let. They were tracked down by dept and told that they would have to otherwise nobody would be sent to examinet their students.

evolving_doors

Bananaleaf wrote: »

No it's not a different issue - the teacher in question didn't apply to be an examiner. It wasn't as if this person wanted to go and wasn't let. They were tracked down by dept and told that they would have to otherwise nobody would be sent to examinet their students.

Wow, I had assumed that that teacher had wanted to go!
In my books though needs of school come first, so if dept. are threatening/blackmailing to withdraw an examiner then I think I'd equally be happy to notify the newspapers and publish the leter. On the other side of things that teacher is undertaking their examining duties under duress so I don't know how the SEC would be happy in relation to ' preserving the integrity of the exam' by coercion.

Maybe it was a trial run/test case by the dept. We might see more of it now...

Boober Fraggle

I think that letter is sent out as standard to principals who consistently don't allow teachers out to examine practicals/ orals. I've certainly heard of it being sent out a few times over the years. They have always said that schools who provide examiners are given priority too.

I understand the pressures of having exam classes etc, but they are the same in every school.

draiochtanois

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sitstill

draiochtanois wrote: »

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How long is a piece of string?

draiochtanois

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evolving_doors

draiochtanois wrote: »

How many hours a year does a teacher work?

Do you mean class contact time?

draiochtanois

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spurious

When I was working, I was in school 8.30am to 4.30pm with a forty minute lunch 'hour' four days a week and till 1.30pm on Wednesdays. I would often do an additional two or three hours in the evenings at home. I used to try keep weekends free, but it didn't always work out.

While in school, there was never really a 'free' class, unless I managed to leave the building I was always needed to do something - supervise a class while a colleague went to the toilet, deal with a sick child, unannounced parents, phone calls etc..

I don't know, what does that work out at hours-wise? About 43 to 48 a week? Some times of the year it would be much more, with optional extra revision or project classes. That's not counting extra curricular stuff I used to do before the stupid Croke Park hours came in, it's also not counting said stupid CP hours.

draiochtanois

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spurious

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Yes and I would usually be free from about the third week of June*, then back in and out once the exam results were out, mid August.

I used to do some CPD in July, but I copped on a good while before I actually left teaching.

*There are lots of small things that mount up that can only be done when the children are not in class. I had to work around exam centres, but it was possible.