RX-8 Owners

nameIwanted

Hi All,

After graduating from college I feel its nearly time to upgrade my car, (I'm still driving my first car, a 2002 Clio) and I was wondering if anyone on the board is a current or recent RX-8 owner that could answer some of the following questions from a real life perspective:

Firstly is it a car you would recommend?
Is it reasonable to service/maintain?
How is the fuel economy?
Would you recommend buying pre or post 2008 tax changes?

Thanks in advance.

coolisin

Rx8 and fuel economy do not mix!! Not economical to run.
Lovely car has being on my list to own one never did.

Post 08 tax forget about it, tax rate jumped from 1.7cc tax to highest emmisons tax around €2k a year. It's what killed the rx8 here we never really got the last rx8 in ireland.

Black_Knight

nameIwanted wrote: »

Hi All,

After graduating from college I feel its nearly time to upgrade my car, (I'm still driving my first car, a 2002 Clio) and I was wondering if anyone on the board is a current or recent RX-8 owner that could answer some of the following questions from a real life perspective:

Firstly is it a car you would recommend?
Is it reasonable to service/maintain?
How is the fuel economy?
Would you recommend buying pre or post 2008 tax changes?

Thanks in advance.

There's usually 2 or 3 of these threads a year here on the motors forum. Run a quick search and you'll find them im sure.

grogi

nameIwanted wrote: »

Hi All,

After graduating from college I feel its nearly time to upgrade my car, (I'm still driving my first car, a 2002 Clio) and I was wondering if anyone on the board is a current or recent RX-8 owner that could answer some of the following questions from a real life perspective:

Firstly is it a car you would recommend?
Is it reasonable to service/maintain?
How is the fuel economy?
Would you recommend buying pre or post 2008 tax changes?

Thanks in advance.

It is a super-fun car to drive. Not so fun to maintain...

The Wankle engine is different to anything else - so hard to find a mechanic that will know what to do. It is not that reliable either - so you'd need that chap more often than not.

It likes the petrol and likes the oil. A litre of oil per tank of petrol is not that unusual. There is a running joke about that and the size of the boot

I would not recommend buying one as a main means of transportation.

joey100

I had one too. Used as my main car and like the other advice I would not buy one to use as your main car. Tank used to get me around 300km if I was lucky, mainly motorway driving too. Never had any problems with the engine or flooding but was very careful with it and kept a good eye on the oil. Problem was finding a decent second hand one. Great car to drive and loved it when I had it, interestingly my insurance was cheaper on a 2004 rx8 than a 2001 Seat Cordoba with 1 years no claims bonus.

Supergurrier

Will be buying one as a weekend car later in the year. You can be sure i wouldn't try and daily one however as they like oil petrol and can be a little unreliable.

nameIwanted

Thanks everyone, you've given me some great insight. I probably wont be buying one as my main car then, I want to keep running costs pretty low ha.

MetzgerMeister

Firstly is it a car you would recommend?

Not unless I know the person enquiring is full of mechanical sympathy, patience, knowledge of cars and rotary engines and has deep pockets.

Is it reasonable to service/maintain?

No

How is the fuel economy?

Terrible. 18 mpg is more than likely the best you'll get by taking it easy.

Would you recommend buying pre or post 2008 tax changes?

Pre 2008 yes. Post 2008 - €2,350 per year to tax...nope!

Nonoperational

Definitely wouldn't buy one without having the compression checked.

Dartz

Firstly is it a car you would recommend?

I'd recommend you test drive it to be sure. It offers a particular thing and if you don't like it's thing you won't get on with it. It loves to rev and just keeps driving and driving - it shouldn't ever feel stressed or like it's thrashing or breathless. It just goes. There's no lag, no surge of boost, just foot down and drive.

It's a solid chassis - one of the best you can get anywhere. Very easy to drive fast. I was hammering it around mondello in the worst of conditions and it was planted. When it did decide to let go, it was never snappy or uncontrollable. It's an easy car to drive quick, and feels great brapping up and down the gears keeping the engine screaming. Cruising around down will foul the engine with carbon, so batter the bollocks after it.

Zoom-Zoom-BANG

I've taken mine around Mondello. To building sites with tools and equipment in the back. To car meets. To Cork for the weekend with friends in the back. On family holidays. Onto the beach. I've loaded it down for work. I've battered the bollocks out of it. It's done everything you'd expect of a daily car to do. I haven't preened on it or given it an 'easy' life - it's been well used for the last 2 years and it's run well through it.

It's a ten year old car so it'll always have a few minor bugs but so far, I can't complain. I blew a coil shortly after I bought it, and broke a suspension piece but other than that it's been no more or less reliable than any other ten year old car.

Is it reasonable to service/maintain?

Fine. Oil, plugs, filters, like any other car. It's fairly easy to look after at home - I can keep mine running myself. It doesn't tolerate being ignored like other cars might - especially the oil. Change it regularly or you'll clog the oil injectors and **** the engine. But it runs mineral oil not the stupid expensive synthetic stuff.

Otherwise just keep an eye on fluid levels and the like. Stuff you should do anyway with a car. 1L oil per 1000km is normal. It may use less. Might use more. Using none is a problem. Most owners at 2T premix to the fuel - between 100:1 and 200:1 normally, since it's designed to burn and engine oil isn't.

What kills them is ignition faults. The ignition coils especially are known to go, which foul the plugs, which then go on to torch the cat, which quickly cooks the engine side-seals. The seal spring overheats, warps, pops the seal out of the grove - it clips and exhaust or intake port, shatters, then it's all over for the engine.

Good news is, you can drill the cat and still pass the NCT. You'll also blast flames at people in traffic, backfire at high RPM and gas traffic. Maked people dive for cover.

A lot of owners will replace the mazda coils with D585's. With a dwell remap they can make a big difference to the car's lifespan and driveability. Adding little 2-stroke oil to the fuel will also help a great deal. Some owners run thicker 10w40 oil in the engine rather thn 10w30 thinking it helps the stationary gear bearings.

Just keep on top of servicing, keep an eye on it and it'll be alright. If it starts when hot and doesn't otherwise struggle it'll probably be fine. If the owner has their head screwed on they'll look after it - you can usually tell the ones who do.

Mine's due a service in the next month or so. New sparkplugs, new airfilter, fresh oil. Should see it right.

How is the fuel economy?

Fuel economy is an oxymoron. Consumption around town is 20l/100k. On a motorway, it drops to 10l/100k cruising. If you're getting worse than that it's sick somehow. 9/10 it'll either be a dead cat, bad ignition or a fouled maf - the first will kill the engine, the second will kill the cat, the third is annoying, but makes for epic exhaust flames.



Would you recommend buying pre or post 2008 tax changes?

Pre. Pre.... 650 tax versus 2500. Get one made 2006 or later - a lot of early kinks were ironed out. A rebuilt engine in an earlier car is fine too.

BBMcQ

As a 2nd gen RX8 owner I can attest to all the above. You really have to love the RX8 to get the best out of it. I had the 190 version in 2007 and it was fine as my first car (I miss the Celtic Tiger!). It wasn't viable as a daily commuter into town, a tank a week so I had to take my medicine until I moved onto the Dart line.

Now I have a lovely 2004 230 version with a stock aero body kit. I have a close and ever more personal relationship with Eoin in Shadow Rotary in Palmerstown/Inchicore. He generally knows every RX8 worth its salt on the east coast. Tells me mine is one of the best examples still on the road. 4 doors with plenty of room for 4 adults, great Bose stereo, surprisingly useful boot but awful mpg. I like to think that it offer great "smiles per gallon". The handling is way ahead of rival cars (Alfa Brera, TT from same years) and the engine notes as you pass 6,000rpm is something special. The exhaust pops also make me giddy. I honestly love mine and can't think of a car that ticks as many boxes if you don't need it as a daily commuter and don't need much space.

galwaytt

stuartmchugh wrote: »

As a 2nd gen RX8 owner I can attest to all the above. You really have to love the RX8 to get the best out of it. I had the 190 version in 2007 and it was fine as my first car (I miss the Celtic Tiger!). It wasn't viable as a daily commuter into town, a tank a week so I had to take my medicine until I moved onto the Dart line.

Now I have a lovely 2004 230 version with a stock aero body kit. I have a close and ever more personal relationship with Eoin in Shadow Rotary in Palmerstown/Inchicore. He generally knows every RX8 worth its salt on the east coast. Tells me mine is one of the best examples still on the road. 4 doors with plenty of room for 4 adults, great Bose stereo, surprisingly useful boot but awful mpg. I like to think that it offer great "smiles per gallon". The handling is way ahead of rival cars (Alfa Brera, TT from same years) and the engine notes as you pass 6,000rpm is something special. The exhaust pops also make me giddy. I honestly love mine and can't think of a car that ticks as many boxes if you don't need it as a daily commuter and don't need much space.

Mad question : has anyone ever done an engine swap on one from say an MPS3 or MPS6 ?

MetzgerMeister

stuartmchugh wrote: »

As a 2nd gen RX8 owner

stuartmchugh wrote: »

I have a lovely 2004 230 version

Second gen to me is the R3. I was so close to buying one of very few early 2008 (i.e. engine size tax rather than emissions) but my 6MPS didn't sell in time

Henry Ford III

Sounds like a fun car, but horribly flawed. One for an enthusiast only.

grogi

galwaytt wrote: »

Mad question : has anyone ever done an engine swap on one from say an MPS3 or MPS6 ?

K20 swap seems to be worked out pretty well.

MetzgerMeister

galwaytt wrote: »

Mad question : has anyone ever done an engine swap on one from say an MPS3 or MPS6 ?

Nope but you'd think it would have been done! It's the exact same engine in the 3 MPS and 6 MPS FYI.

It's a much heavier engine compared to the 13B Renesis in the RX8 and would make the car very nose heavy which would completely through of its balance and feel.

Del2005

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Sounds like a fun car, but horribly flawed. One for an enthusiast only.

There's nothing flawed about it, technology just hasn't caught up yet.

unkel

@Dartz - great write up!

I'd love to own one. I don't care about petrol consumption and I'd like to think my balls are big enough to risk it, but my budget for maintenance would be tiny so my head has ruled it out.

Dartz

My budget for maintenance isn't that different... tbh.

It's alright if you do work yourself. Oil and filters are cheap. Air filters are fine. Sparkplugs are pricey since they're unique....100 for 4.

My biggest expense so far has been 500 euro for 4 D585 coils, and 150 for a remap to suit. But it's brough a massive benefit. Otherwise, it's been perfectly tolereable. Brake pads, drop-links. Usual ****.

It's perfectly serviceable at home and responds well to DIY.

Dartz

Del2005 wrote: »

There's nothing flawed about it, technology just hasn't caught up yet.

It sort of is...

The 2004 models came from the factory injecting too little oil into the combustion chamber - because someone complained about the press cars drinking a little when caned. With obvious results for the engine seals. They reflashed after a bunch turned up dead.

All models have **** ignition coils from the factory. Which quickly leads to catalytic converter death, which leads to engine death.

The fuel pump can be prone to overheating below 25% of a tank which causes it's output to drop. The saddle tank can also cause problems and suck dry at high speed in left turns. So, the fuel pressure drops....usually at full throttle. A sudden lean spike causes on-load detonation in the engine, with fatal results. Can go unnoticed until after the engine's rebuilt - and the rebuilt engine goes pop on the shakedown.

The stationary gear bearings are prone to ****ting the bed - especially the rear ones which is weird because they are the first to be lubricated. Mazda speccing too thin an oil seems to be the cause. Quite a few on Irish rotary have died this way recently. A lot of owners will use 10w40 oil to try preserve them. Potentially a lot of 'apex seal' failures are actually bearing failures. Might be a combination of the cooler Irish/UK climate and too big oil coolers keeping the engines too cold for too long.... nobody really knows.

The side-seals hate backpressure and heat. It's the other real killer of engines. When the cat goes it causes enough backpressure to bake the side-seals. If they get too hot they warp, push the seal out of it's grove where it gets dragged around the engine until it shatters, taking out the rest of the rotor as it goes out the exhaust. Some people use springs from the older FD engines thinking turbo springs might be tougher.

Too long between oil changes can cause the oil injectors to clog with sludge and starve the rotor tips of oil. Too long at low rpm can do the exact same thing. Or just jam the seals and keep them from doing their job. This is always your fault. But a lot of people either run premix or fit a sohn adapter to run the oil injectors off of a reservoir of 2-stroke.

A lot of these flaws happened because Ford encourages Mazda to save a few hundred quid per car...... and a lot of them are fairly easy to mitigate against if you take the time to read the forums.

BBMcQ

galwaytt wrote: »

Mad question : has anyone ever done an engine swap on one from say an MPS3 or MPS6 ?

Funny you say that. My mate has a MPS6. Our mechanic has often dreamed of doing it, but i reckon it would need a lot more work than just engine swap.

BBMcQ

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Second gen to me is the R3. I was so close to buying one of very few early 2008 (i.e. engine size tax rather than emissions) but my 6MPS didn't sell in time

Second gen owner in my context was that I've owned 2 RX8's and not back to back. The R3 unfortunately was never going to hit Irish shores with the tax changes. I've only ever seen one in Washington DC!

9935452

coolisin wrote: »

Rx8 and fuel economy do not mix!! Not economical to run.
Lovely car has being on my list to own one never did.

Post 08 tax forget about it, tax rate jumped from 1.7cc tax to highest emmisons tax around €2k a year. It's what killed the rx8 here we never really got the last rx8 in ireland.

An aweful lot of them were taxed at a 1.3 rate.

MetzgerMeister

stuartmchugh wrote: »

Second gen owner in my context was that I've owned 2 RX8's and not back to back. The R3 unfortunately was never going to hit Irish shores with the tax changes. I've only ever seen one in Washington DC!

There was at least 1....;)

BBMcQ

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

There was at least 1

If you import a pre-June 2008 R3 do you pay the lower tax?

Also it's widely reported on the Irish rotary forum that they've closed the 1.3 "loophole".

JC01

Great right up there Dartz

I'v never owned one but I'v drivin a mates, fun car and fun engine but to me I never saw them being worth the hassle,
If I was to bear a rotary it'd be an rx7 all day.

Ironically the same fella has had two of those and all three RXs broke his heart, he completely gave up on performance cars for about a year after the second 7s oil pump gave out on a track day.

MetzgerMeister

stuartmchugh wrote: »

If you import a pre-June 2008 R3 do you pay the lower tax?

Also it's widely reported on the Irish rotary forum that they've closed the 1.3 "loophole".

If the car was first registered (in any country) before June 2008 then it will be on the engine size system rather than emissions. That photo is the exact one I was going to buy. A guy in Cork bought it from that owner. I'd say it's the only one in the country.

Dartz

JC01 wrote: »

Great right up there Dartz

I'v never owned one but I'v drivin a mates, fun car and fun engine but to me I never saw them being worth the hassle,
If I was to bear a rotary it'd be an rx7 all day.

Ironically the same fella has had two of those and all three RXs broke his heart, he completely gave up on performance cars for about a year after the second 7s oil pump gave out on a track day.

They're performance cars. They'll do that. They can be intoxicating things at times..

When's the next C&C?

If I wake the **** up I'll bring people for a spin in mine. Or let you drive if you're nice and buy me breakfast ;P

Bear in mind, it did take a hit for a mini digger a few months ago so is lest than pristine, but otherwise it's fine.

Col200sx

Dartz pretty much covered what you need to know, a good write up

I own a 2007 231 bhp RX8. All I have needed to do in my ownership is the correct preventative maintenance it deserves. I fitted oem Mazda 100C coils, NGK plugs and Magnecor leads. All cost around €500 but you then know you're good for a long time and no fear of damaging your engine with cheap crap.

There are a lot out there with cheap muck you find on Ebay. Avoid those, or if not, get rid of them asap. Remember the saying: "Buy cheap, buy twice".

If you look after an RX8, it will look after you in return. Regular oil changes, using semi synthetic oil. To give an idea, my oil change costs about €25 very max. 4 litres of Castrol GTX Magnatec 10w40 from micksgarage.ie is only €16 and then filter and sump plug washer. Remember also, check the boot to see if the owner keeps oil, these need to be regularly checked and topped up.

Regarding the driving and mpg, yes, it is thirsty. Mostly in traffic and short journies. However I do remember doing a journey from Galway to Cork and further driving on that to a full tank in return gave back about 400+ klms. But as mentioned above, you don't buy it for the miles per gallon, but the smiles per gallon. Everytime I drive it it puts a smile on my face.

I'm from Galway, and regularly drive around Connemara in mine, and that's where it is amazing. It's got so much grip and takes corners beautifully. It's on windy roads like this that you really appreciate it. Plus it is quite forgiving if the rear end does twitch as it has great handling, it is easy to hold on to. (You do have the option to turn off traction control by the way).

Finally, make sure you find a good one, walk away from it if you have a doubt. I viewed 7 RX8's over two months before I bought mine. I travelled quite a bit too, with cash in my pocket but walked away as they weren't up to my standard, which you need to have when buying one.

Mine is up for sale currently, I don't want to break any forum rules by posting it here, but I have it posted in the "Your Adverts car for sale" sticky thread in this forum.

nct tester

Another thing to watch out for on Rx8's is to see if they will start after the temperature has reached normal. Have had lots of them in for test that fail emissions and then won't restart after moving down the lane.

MetzgerMeister

nct tester wrote: »

Another thing to watch out for on Rx8's is to see if they will start after the temperature has reached normal. Have had lots of them in for test that fail emissions and then won't restart after moving down the lane.

Once the compression is good, the solution to the hot start issue is an upgraded starter motor, 70Ah battery, upgraded coils, leads and the RE7C-L leading plugs with the RE9B-T trailing plugs.

Once all these have been done the car should be normal. Mine certainly was anyway. Never once had any starting issues after these upgrades.

Dartz

nct tester wrote: »

Another thing to watch out for on Rx8's is to see if they will start after the temperature has reached normal. Have had lots of them in for test that fail emissions and then won't restart after moving down the lane.

Shouldn't even be doing an emissions test with them.

But bad hot-starting is a terminal engine. One I tried before buying mine had hideous starting trouble - it just refused to light when hot before finally catching.

Walked away.

Depending on wat's wrong, rebuilding an engine is around 2500-3500.

Which considering every service consists of oil, filters and maybe sparkplugs with no valves or timing ****e to worry about isn't completely gonzo.

It's also not that tricky to do at home.

damo003

Hi,

I'm looking at buying an RX-8 soon, and was wondering what peoples experience was with them and any advice they could give.

I know that the pre 2006 ones need a new starter, ignition coils, leads and battery and that just to keep an eye on the oil and that its fuel consumption is around the 20 mpg mark.

I've been wanting one now for past 2 years and deciding now is the time, just wondering what the insurance is like on and and general stuff about the car itself.

Thanks in advance

grogi

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057575631

biko

Merged

conzy

I have an RX8 about 18 months. Fantastic car. Never fails to put a smile on face. I always wanted one and bought one knowing it would require a lot of TLC.

Its inefficient, loud and has half the performance of cars that typically use this much fuel. But I have loved every minute of ownership. I'm actually selling it shortly, if you want to see the kind of preventative maintenance / upgrades a well minded RX8 will undergo have a look at my thread on irish rotary

I typically get between 320-450km from a 60 litre tank so about 17MPG on average. If you do small mileage and you want one, go for it. Make sure you buy a well minded one or buy a cheap one knowing it could take several grand to put it right.

I would be holding on to mine If I didn't regularly spend 300+ euro a month on petrol. I've had my fun and I'd love an enthusiast to buy mine

Dartz

It's the insurance that's the ****ing killer. 1500 with 3 years NCB.

That said, I put 8000km on mine in the first 18 months of having it, and another 8000km last winter. It took it with aplomb.