b&w film developing at home chemicals ?

Mountainsandh

I recently bought a Pentax Super A, and a few rolls of Ilford 400 ISO HP5 film. Just got an Ebay Patterson type kit to try and develop at home too, so I'm sorted for the hardware. (got a little film scanner from Lidl 2 weeks ago too, that'll do me as I'm only having fun).

I have read threads on here, and will follow the Ilford pdf on developing your own b&w film.

My question is simply where to get the chemicals, I went onto the website for this Irish shop online/in Cork I think, is that the best place ? (photoshop.ie)

I'm really looking for value as funds are low, and I think I saw it mentioned on a thread here that some of the chemicals were not really needed : can I skimp and save, or would you advise to get everything, including the fixer and rinser the pdf advises ? Must I stick to the Ilford brand ?

Any other bit of advice very welcome, don't have much of a clue what I'm about to get into.
Thanks

failinis

I don't know about about how to skimp on any chemicals - but I will be happily waiting to see what people reply as well

thefizz

All you need is developer, fixer and a wetting agent. Give me a call tomorrw if you wish to discuss any aspect of film developing. The number is on the site, link below.

Peter

DaireQuinlan

I do all my own colour and B&W, most of my B&W chemicals I get from the Photoshop.ie . Good range of stuff, reasonable prices, and Peter seems like a nice chap :-)

Mountainsandh

thefizz wrote: »

All you need is developer, fixer and a wetting agent. Give me a call tomorrw if you wish to discuss any aspect of film developing. The number is on the site, link below.

Peter

Thanks it's an improvement on the 5 different products mentioned on the pdf !

Adrian.Sadlier

I'm no expert, but for me, a minimum is developer, stop and fixer. Although I use a wetting agent I sometimes go without.

Best shop, Gunnes of Camden Street, Dublin. Friendly, experienced staff, wide range and good prices.

Online, I have happily used photoshop.ie in the past.

The Lidl scanner will be quite limiting in its capabilities.

If you get bitten by the analogue bug an option might be to join a camera club with a dark room. For example, Dublin Camera Club has two darkrooms which members can book for free!

But most of all, have fun!:D

Mountainsandh

Thanks Adrien.Sadlier, I'm in the South East and our local photo club is only small, but other people are interested in film there so you never know... I'm in full Culchie mode living down here, and avoid Dublin at all costs so I think the online shop above suits better for now

Yes, I don't expect much of the Lidl scanner, but then again I'm not taking it very seriously right now. If it's something I want to take a bit more seriously I'll find an alternative. Same with chemicals, I might get rinsers and such later on when I'm more discerning.

Thefizz I meant to ring today and I forgot, I have to ring when I'm in town as coverage in my home is very poor, tomorrow maybe, I think I see what products I need to get now on the site anyway, thanks a lot.

Mountainsandh

Just thinking of another question, if I rinse with water instead of using a stopper, would the ph of my water matter ? We treat our own water (well) and it is currently very hard, you're talking hard-hard (system needs servicing !).

thefizz

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Just thinking of another question, if I rinse with water instead of using a stopper, would the ph of my water matter ? We treat our own water (well) and it is currently very hard, you're talking hard-hard (system needs servicing !).

Water is fine, that's why I left the stop bath out of my original post. Acid stops can cause pin holes in some films so it's advised not to use them.

aidanic

I live in a hard water area, and tend to use distilled water (€2 per 5L in the local supermarket) for my development and fixer solutions. I wash/rinse with normal tap water, and also use the distilled water in a photoflo mix.

I can also recommend Peter as a source for supplies.

The B&W development process is not difficult, and in general very forgiving of mistakes. I have a bathroom with no windows, and this makes the loading of film onto the reels easier than using a bag. There are loads of tutorials on YouTube if you need the help.

Please do post some of your pictures - it's all part of the fun.

Aidan

failinis

aidanic wrote: »

Please do post some of your pictures - it's all part of the fun.

Aidan

Is there a thread in this fourm group for 35mm to just post images?
If not it may be nice to start one, similar to the "Random Photos LII - NO COMMENTS IN THREAD - 800PIX LONGEST SIDE" one.

Mountainsandh

Thanks for the tips and I will Aidanic, if it's not a complete disaster !

Yes, I think a thread for film would be good too, Failinis.

It would maybe highlight the different types of film and developing, interesting for newbies like me.

DaireQuinlan

failinis wrote: »

Is there a thread in this fourm group for 35mm to just post images?

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Yes, I think a thread for film would be good too, Failinis.

Start one :-) Only thing you might need mod help with is to stop if from being polluted with digital stuff. The 'random photos' thread isn't stickied AFAIK, just gets regular posts so stays up around the top of the forum. Any film related thread will probably drop off the front page pretty quickly.

failinis

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Start one :-) Only thing you might need mod help with is to stop if from being polluted with digital stuff. The 'random photos' thread isn't stickied AFAIK, just gets regular posts so stays up around the top of the forum. Any film related thread will probably drop off the front page pretty quickly.

True, it may drop off quite quickly
I am just writing up the thread now with basic rules and links on how to get into film if you are entirely new etc.
I have said basic chat is allowed if relevant to the thread/images and such.

Studio120

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Thanks Adrien.Sadlier, I'm in the South East and our local photo club is only small, but other people are interested in film there so you never know... I'm in full Culchie mode living down here, and avoid Dublin at all costs so I think the online shop above suits better for now
.

If you ever want to have a go in a Darkroom let us know. Were in the south east also :-)

Mountainsandh

Studio120 wrote: »

If you ever want to have a go in a Darkroom let us know. Were in the south east also :-)

Thanks a lot that's really kind. I have the dark bag, and I think I 'll be ok for b&w at home for now.

Mountainsandh

An update : I have shot and developed 4 b&w films !

I think I can confidently say that I have made every humanely possible mistake in the process .

I was using the camera for the first time, so I set out to learn how to use it first and foremost rather than try to "think in b&w" and aim for great photography. I have to separate the technical and artistic intent I think, as the technical bits don't come easy for me. I'm starting to know the camera better.

I learned loads, except that when I developed, I discovered I had not securely loaded two rolls of films, and therefore and entire two rolls of film were shot entirely in my imagination
2 wasted films !

Another film turned out with multiple exposures on one half, and the other half blank (not exposed). I don't know what happened there, wound it up by accident too early ?

So challenge number one for the next rolls : make sure they are well loaded, even if it means sacrificing some exposures at the start of the roll. One film had a reasonable number of exposures, unfortunately not the one I'd have wanted.

I think I mostly exposed well, except I deliberately brushed over a little chapter on over/under exposing in relation to fore/back ground light in the camera guide, which I now understand the importance of in the context of film + b&w. I'll be experimenting with the over/under exposure reel in the future in more contrasty situations. Room for improvement overall as I seem to err on the dark side when in doubt.

Developing : I watched a video about loading film on the spirals for my little tank, and didn't follow (well) the advice the guy was giving to avoid film jamming in the spirals (cut a good way down from start of film, so the end is not curvy). And so I merrily jammed one But hey, I know what not to do now !

And then the last thing that went wrong, and is really weird : the Ilford Rapid Fixer self heated to a ridiculous temperature ! I had it at 21 degrees or so in a reasonably warm room (20/21 degrees). I prepared it at the same time as I did the developer, as was advised in the pdf. When I went to use it, about 10/11 minutes later, it was at 24 degrees and rising ! I had the thermometer in it as it rose to nearly 28 degrees, no kidding !
So in a panic I bain-maried it in the sink with cold water, managed to get it down to 24 degrees or so, and fired it in the tank in desperation. It was a good 2/3 minutes after I had stopped developing, and I didn't want to leave it too long. It seemed to have done its job anyway, but that was a bit of a hairy moment.

It was in a plastic jug, so I think it must have either reacted to the plastic, or my water.

So these were my adventures, I've ordered more film and am looking forward to shooting and learning more, it was good fun if not very successful.

Sorry for the very long post, I figure someone starting out might get some use out of my mistakes.

untitled-117 by Anne L., on Flickr


untitled-20 by Anne L., on Flickr

untitled-60 by Anne L., on Flickr

more on Flickr

Mountainsandh

Oh and I forgot another costly (moderately) mistake : Adrien Sandlier you were right, the Lidl scanner is a waste of money. Easy to use, but very poor quality and crops 35mm film shots. Any advice on low budget more acceptable replacement ?

wonski

Do you just scan the rolls?

Back in the day when I was developing films the biggest issue was drying process and preventing it from being contaminated with all the little specs flying around.

Enlargements came up terrible sometimes due to this.

I was tought to put a drop of dish washing liquid for a final bath so the water would "fall of" the film easier, and it worked There are more pro solutions to this of course...

Drying process was where the entire process could fail, though.

Mountainsandh

I have Kodak photo flow for that, and it seems to have done great job. Some pics do have smudges still, but it seems to be more accumulation of liquid than hairs\dust. With a better scanner I can totally see how it might become an issue.

I didn't squeedgie, not even between my fingers as some people advise.

Mountainsandh

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I have Kodak photo flow for that, and it seems to have done great job. Some pics do have smudges still, but it seems to be more accumulation of liquid than hairs\dust. With a better scanner I can totally see how it might become an issue.

I didn't squeedgie, not even between my fingers as some people advise.

Edit : yes I just scan. I printed home prints via laptop yesterday, but I think printing is a whole other thing that I don't want to get into.

DaireQuinlan

What film | dev | times | temps ? Fixer I wouldn't worry about. It goes to completion, so as long as it's in the right ballpark temperature wise you can just stick it in and leave it for a bit. I photoflo mine, don't squeegee, then hang in the bathroom after running the shower for a minute or so. Sometimes I still have to clean drying marks off the back of the film before scanning. I don't touch the emulsion side.

Mountainsandh

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

What film | dev | times | temps ? Fixer I wouldn't worry about. It goes to completion, so as long as it's in the right ballpark temperature wise you can just stick it in and leave it for a bit. I photoflo mine, don't squeegee, then hang in the bathroom after running the shower for a minute or so. Sometimes I still have to clean drying marks off the back of the film before scanning. I don't touch the emulsion side.

Hi Daire, Ilford HP5 (plus) 400 iso, with Ilford Ilfotec DDX developer, stopped with water, then Ilford Rapid Fixer, then Kodak photo flow.

I saw some smears on some negatives, but they weren't visible on the scans. I didn't really know how to go about cleaning them and thought my hands/fingers would make them worse so I left them.
The spiral jams on the other hand...

DDX 9 minutes, on the guidelines I'm following I think they mention a really quick stop like 10 seconds then fixer, but I was after reading about a longer stopping time somewhere, so I rinsed with water 2 minutes or so, then fixer for ... can't remember, I think it's 3 minutes, then rinsing for 10/15 minutes with water, and I only added the photoflow at the end.

All temps at 20 degrees (21 at start), except for that spooky Rapid fixer !

These are the guidelines I followed, with water stop from advice on here (boards, that is) : http://www.ilfordphoto.com/webfiles/200629163442455.pdf

Also, I doubled the measurements since my tank holds 2 spirals/2 films, so 120 ml/480ml for DDX and fixer.