References and Blacklisted

LegacyUser

I fell through a wooden staircase last summer at work. I broke my hand and leg and fractured my eye socket. I went back part time after seven weeks but my boss put pressure on me to come back full time against doctor's advice so I resigned in September.
I had an operation just before Christmas and I started looking for a new job at the end of February once given the all clear.
I am struggling with a reference and the break in my employment history. Being tactful, I've said I had an accident and left at it at that. If pressed, I've said what happened, but not where as it was said mentioning a workplace accident will get me blacklisted. I've also stretched the truth and said "My employer was supportive but part time wasn't an option during my recovery". I am sure that agencies guess there is more behind it.
I have gotten through to the final round for three jobs but at reference stage it ends abruptly. I think the agencies are contacting my old boss instead of my listed references and getting an earful.
I can't stop 'off the record' references but should I be more honest/detailed about the accident? I don't want to seen as badmouthing an ex-employer but I am stuck.

davo10

FormerlyEmployed wrote: »

I fell through a wooden staircase last summer at work. I broke my hand and leg and fractured my eye socket. I went back part time after seven weeks but my boss put pressure on me to come back full time against doctor's advice so I resigned in September.
I had an operation just before Christmas and I started looking for a new job at the end of February once given the all clear.
I am struggling with a reference and the break in my employment history. Being tactful, I've said I had an accident and left at it at that. If pressed, I've said what happened, but not where as it was said mentioning a workplace accident will get me blacklisted. I've also stretched the truth and said "My employer was supportive but part time wasn't an option during my recovery". I am sure that agencies guess there is more behind it.
I have gotten through to the final round for three jobs but at reference stage it ends abruptly. I think the agencies are contacting my old boss instead of my listed references and getting an earful.
I can't stop 'off the record' references but should I be more honest/detailed about the accident? I don't want to seen as badmouthing an ex-employer but I am stuck.

Are you currently embroiled in a legal case with your former employer?

Graham

FormerlyEmployed wrote: »

I think the agencies are contacting my old boss instead of my listed references and getting an earful.

Have you asked them??

seamus

Agreed that if the jobs are drying up after the reference stage, you should be asking what the story is. Perhaps they are ringing your listed references, but getting no answer because the details are out of date or something?

I'm not sure who told you that having been in a workplace accident would get you blacklisted. Telling people you were suing your employer will get you blacklisted, telling them you had an accident that left you in hospital won't. Saying you had an accident at work isn't badmouthing your employer. It's an accident.

But anyway, something as simple as saying that you'd had a serious accident and went back part time but were still struggling a bit physically, so you decided instead to resign and take some time to recover fully. There's no need to say anything about your previous employer.

You can actually stop "off the record" bad references. Get a friend to ring up your old employer and pretend to be looking for a reference. They should use an app on their phone to record the conversation, which is perfectly legal. Have a proper backstory in case they ask - what the job is, what you'll be doing, etc.

If you do discover that he's giving a bad reference, you have a few options. The first is to go to him and tell him you know and ask him to stop. The second is to get a solicitor to write a sternly-worded letter for you. The third is to go all out and sue.

davo10

seamus wrote: »

Agreed that if the jobs are drying up after the reference stage, you should be asking what the story is. Perhaps they are ringing your listed references, but getting no answer because the details are out of date or something?

I'm not sure who told you that having been in a workplace accident would get you blacklisted. Telling people you were suing your employer will get you blacklisted, telling them you had an accident that left you in hospital won't. Saying you had an accident at work isn't badmouthing your employer. It's an accident.

But anyway, something as simple as saying that you'd had a serious accident and went back part time but were still struggling a bit physically, so you decided instead to resign and take some time to recover fully. There's no need to say anything about your previous employer.

You can actually stop "off the record" bad references. Get a friend to ring up your old employer and pretend to be looking for a reference. They should use an app on their phone to record the conversation, which is perfectly legal. Have a proper backstory in case they ask - what the job is, what you'll be doing, etc.

If you do discover that he's giving a bad reference, you have a few options. The first is to go to him and tell him you know and ask him to stop. The second is to get a solicitor to write a sternly-worded letter for you. The third is to go all out and sue.

Are you sure that is legal? Pretending to be an employer and then covertly recording the conversation without informing the person at the other end of the phone, would that be admissible? Wouldn't the other person have an expectation of privacy? I looked for an app to record telephone conversations but I couldn't find one, because it's illegal, maybe there is one now.

But leaving the legality aside, there would be nothing to stop the old employer then telling all future employers about this charade.

seamus

davo10 wrote: »

Are you sure that is legal?

Yes.

Pretending to be an employer and then covertly recording the conversation without informing the person at the other end of the phone, would that be admissible?

That's a slightly different issue. And the admissibility would depend on a lot of things. But simply having the recording may be leverage enough to get him to stop.

Wouldn't the other person have an expectation of privacy?

That only relates to the distribution/publication of recordings. Only one party consent is required to legally record conversations in Ireland.

But leaving the legality aside, there would be nothing to stop the old employer then telling all future employers about this charade.

Yes and no. It's certainly an escalating option, but still actionable as defamation.

The first thing he should do is verify why the applications are failing and if it's down to this one employer. Then decide what to do.

RainyDay

seamus wrote: »

Yes and no. It's certainly an escalating option, but still actionable as defamation.

It's only defamation if the employer lies. If he truthfully tells anyone seeking a reference about how the employee got someone to surreptitiously record a call, there is no defamation, and no job for the op.

seamus

RainyDay wrote: »

It's only defamation if the employer lies. If he truthfully tells anyone seeking a reference about how the employee got someone to surreptitiously record a call, there is no defamation, and no job for the op.

Yes, but the employer would have to prove that what he has said is true.

Anyway, that's a discussion for a whole different thread, and not the first option anyone should jump for.

RainyDay

seamus wrote: »

Yes, but the employer would have to prove that what he has said is true.

Guilty until proven innocent? Surely the person taking the defamation case would have to prove what the employer said was untrue?

seamus

RainyDay wrote: »

Guilty until proven innocent? Surely the person taking the defamation case would have to prove what the employer said was untrue?

Defamation works the opposite way. If you say something about me, I can sue you for defamation, and I will win if you cannot prove that what you said was true. I don't have do anything but sit in the chair and watch.

RainyDay

seamus wrote: »

Defamation works the opposite way. If you say something about me, I can sue you for defamation, and I will win if you cannot prove that what you said was true. I don't have do anything but sit in the chair and watch.

That's a dramatic oversimplification. The defence of truth is one of the possible defences, but it is completely untrue to suggest that you can 'sit in the chair and watch'.

And btw, one of the other defences is publication - 'A defamatory statement is only actionable if it is published. - See more at: http://www.lawyer.ie/defamation#sthash.hyQSb8ub.dpuf'

So defamation would not apply to giving a reference over the phone, or even by letter.

Mrs OBumble

OP, is there any chance that one the references that you're giving is saying bad things? Sometimes this happens, people who should be on your side aren't as nice as they should be ....

Maybe get someone to mystery-shop them too. As stated, your friend should have a realistic scenario about the job you're "applying" for, and also a prepared list of questions to ask, eg:

1 Can you confirm that FormerlyEmployed worked for you between <<give dates>>
2 What was his role and responsibilities?
3 Can you comment about his performance in this job?
4 Why did he leave?
4 Would you hire him again?

spider_pig

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LegacyUser

I hope I answer all of the questions sorry if I miss any.

Yes I have made a PIAB claim. I only got the illness benefit and the hospital, physio, medication, GP fees all adds up and I still have more appointments to pay. I hate feeling I have to explain why but living is not free and being injured isn't either. My boss told me to claim on my income and health insurance (I don't have any).

The contact information for my references is correct. They told me they said 'all the right things'.

I think the agencies would say it was confidential or not admit to calling people not on the list.

I dont want to get into defamation or recording calls. I will think about getting a friend to call my references and maybe my boss. My boss is too cheap to fix the stairs and landing and I am the one who 'pays'.

thank you for your help

Irish_Elect_Eng

Is it possible that your experience with your previous employer is coloring your opinion of why you are not getting these jobs. Perhaps your potential employers are looking for a particular type of candidate that is not being reflected in your references and your reference are simply being truthful?

Not getting selected on 3 roles from a shortlist is not a huge sample size.