Registering As Self Employed / Jobseekers

Fusiondancers

Hi there,
I am hoping I can get some answers to some questions. I am currently on Job Seekers and would like to register as self employed - I have been on the Revenue website and downloaded the form. In the how much do you estimate to make - do I add my social and the amount I would like to make in the year. Is there a cut off regarding tax for someone on social and how much do you need to make before you are no longer entitled to social. If I maybe only make 4k in the year again this Im thinking I add onto my social and put this down in the estimated turnover?. I cannot live on 4k so if social were to cut me off and then say you are now self employed on paper yes but in terms of what I am making it would be pointless even registering as self employed and just wait until a position becomes available in a local shop or business. I would love if someone could answer my question and let me know what am I supposed to put down on the Revenue form again I have no problem paying Tax at the end of the year but am I being Taxed on my social amount and the money I make outside it and how does it all work please - I am sure I am not the first to ask this question so would love some advice.
Thanks.

Lockedout2

First of all talk to social welfare there are various schemes "back to work" where you keep your SW While working as self employed.

The form for Revenue only applies to you self employed inform.

Fusiondancers

Thank you Lockedout2 - I was looking at the back to work thing but on the actual form it says - have you registered with Revenue tick yes or no so I presume your supposed to register with them before even applying for the back to work. Also this allows you to keep a certain percentage but in year 2 does your Social drop completely and then say if I am earning less then I ever would on social what are my options then - is it a scheme that although sounds brilliant is it like being dropped from your social slowly and as soon as the 2 years is up its no longer there problem that your not doing good - this is the worst case scenario and I hate even thinking like this but I have to be realistic also.

You don't register (with Revenue) until you have a business. You don't have a business. Go to your welfare office and enquire about the Back to work enterprise allowance (BTWEA). It's a 2 year scheme where they let you give self employment a stab, and you retain a social welfare payment.

For year 1, you keep 100% of your current welfare payment. Year 2 you get to have 75% of it. If the business goes tits up, you can abandon the scheme and return to being a jobseeker.


It's possible you may need to do a business plan and such to get onto the scheme.

In Louth, the whole thing is handled by the 'Louth Leader Partnership', but you must be referred to them before you can make an appointment to speak with them. The chap in the one in Drogheda (anyone who's been there will know who I'm talking about) would break his back to see you getting a fair chance at making something of yourself. Really encourages you to get out and give it a shot. If the other similar offices around the country have such a person working there you'll be off to the races.


As part of signing up to the BTWEA scheme, they'll register you with Revenue to make sure you're above board. (a friend of mine went through this process about 6 months ago).


As an aside; I'd love to see this scheme return to a 4 year scheme. It's one of the best schemes they (Social Welfare) offer. Self employment with a safety net. Would love to see funding for it increased and similar schemes thought up.

Fusiondancers

KKV - Thank you for this information - there is a local enterprise board here in our local town and I was going to speak with them as they handle everything regarding the BTWEA - I didn't realise that if everything goes tits up that I am entitled to go back as a Job Seeker - I thought they would just say sorry tough - you should of read the terms and conditions etc - I have never done a business plan and it is hard to say what my profit will be or my loss will be - I presume they help you with that but if successful I would be delighted. Have they ever said no to someone who applies for it and if they have - can that person earn extra money as well as their social and pay tax on the extra income. I am sure people who are able to bake do so and maybe sell at car boots which brings in extra income but technically they are unemployed as they are not working full time - but those people may want to let Revenue know that the extra income they are making that they will pay tax on it.

A lot of people will do that kinda stuff and not notify revenue, I presume. I can't imagine anyone baking a few cakes is making a lot of money, so I presume revenue wouldn't care anyway.

But back to the topic, I know a chap that set out to participate in the BTWEA programme. Effectively, once you hit year 2 you reduce to 75% of your welfare entitlement. He reckoned that he was making so little from his self employment that he couldn't actually afford to take the 25% cut. So he went into them and explained the situation. He was removed from the scheme and returned back to being a normal jobseeker.

That said, I'm not sure what hoops he had to jump through. I presume they have standard checks to make sure you're still entitled to claim a jobseeker payment in the first place (in other words, if you make 20 million euro from self employment, and then go to welfare, they'll check to see if you've made money or not). I don't know the exact ins and outs, but I do know he definitely came off the scheme part-way through, and returned to being a normal jobseeker.

Fusiondancers

Thanks for that - so your friend who was on the scheme and then was not making enough and went back to Job seekers rate - say then he gets another brain wave what happens then? Can he go back on the scheme? If not say if he wants to just work 10 days and charge for his time and skill and makes say €1000 what happens then. Surely its better to at least do something then nothing at all - so is he then Self Employed as he earned that €1000 outside of his welfare payments and has to go back to Revenue and say I am now Self Employed again but still claiming. This is after the BTWEA and he's back normal and claiming or have I touched on a grey area that know one knows about. Or once it fails do you just go back on the welfare payments and thats it - you need to wait until you find employment in a shop or company etc...

Punkyblip

That said, I'm not sure what hoops he had to jump through. I presume they have standard checks to make sure you're still entitled to claim a jobseeker payment in the first place (in other words, if you make 20 million euro from self employment, and then go to welfare, they'll check to see if you've made money or not). I don't know the exact ins and outs, but I do know he definitely came off the scheme part-way through, and returned to being a normal jobseeker.

If the OP makes 20 million I think KKV is due a nice commission for the good advice.

Fusiondancers

Punkyblip wrote: »

If the OP makes 20 million I think KKV is due a nice commission for the good advice.

LOL - fingers crossed it is just such a confusing thing maybe Im confusing myself. Ill go to the Enterprise Board tell them my plan - all I know is I want to make money - pay the tax on it - and create a life for myself - nothing is coming my way in terms of companies - you apply and the job is gone even though you may be called for an interview - you can get a bit fed up and it can leave you in a place where you think your worthless so Im off to sell myself in the right way LOL and fingers crossed it all works.

PS my next post may be about hiring staff - (dreaming - watch this space)

Fusiondancers

Fusiondancers wrote: »

Thanks for that - so your friend who was on the scheme and then was not making enough and went back to Job seekers rate - say then he gets another brain wave what happens then? Can he go back on the scheme? If not say if he wants to just work 10 days and charge for his time and skill and makes say €1000 what happens then. Surely its better to at least do something then nothing at all - so is he then Self Employed as he earned that €1000 outside of his welfare payments and has to go back to Revenue and say I am now Self Employed again but still claiming. This is after the BTWEA and he's back normal and claiming or have I touched on a grey area that know one knows about. Or once it fails do you just go back on the welfare payments and thats it - you need to wait until you find employment in a shop or company etc...

As far as I know, he left the scheme at the end of year one. As far as I am aware, if he decided to go for it again, he has to resume where he left off (so he'd go straight into year 2 from where he is now).


However, I don't think he can do the same business again. There has to be something new brought to it that makes it somehow different than before or something like that (I believe Social Welfare's view is that if you failed once at X, then you'll fail again at X, however, if you want to try out Y, then you can do so).

Once you've completed the 2 years, I'm not sure what happens if you want to return to the scheme again. I know it used to be a 4 year scheme, but I'm not sure if they will let you extend it into a 3rd and 4th year, or if you get to start from the start again, or if you're just never allowed on it again.


With regards to earning potential, as far as I am aware, Social welfare match you euro-for-euro for every cent you make from self employment. So if you're entitled to €188 per week, and you make €188, you're not entitled to anything for that week. If you make €200, then they'll deduct €12 from the following week's payment.

It's a nonsensical way of doing things that just encourages people not to work (cos if you don't make over €10k, then you worked for nothing, effectively, as SW will just keep deducting what you've made).

Fusiondancers

Thanks KKV so from your last post you mean if you get onto the BTWEA your sorted and you can actually gain some money from it but if you do not manage to get on it - any work you do Social will deduct your money as you've earned it? So if you make 3k over 6 months they see it as you've made 3k we won't pay you that 3k because you made it yourself - so your doing them a favour? You would still have to register though with Revenue right even though you said you've basically worked for nothing?...

Pretty much, yeah. That's my understanding of it anyway.

So if you're not on the scheme, but you're making money, you have to make more than 10k a year for it to be worth your while, effectively.

I can understand where they're coming from with the idea behind it (as it still acts as a safety net if you don't make any money) but when you see things like the scheme being cut from 4 years down to 2 years, it makes it all a bit disheartening.