British Expats following a Brexit and obtaining citizenship through Naturalisation

soapbloggs

Hi,

A strange thing might happen should Britain choose to exit the EU in June. As a British expatriate living in Ireland on a British passport, I will enter a limbo phase where I no longer will know what my future status will be. It could end up being anything from keeping all my existing rights to having to obtain work permits and other obstacles. It may take years before this is sorted out. The UK has two treaties with Ireland, the Common Area Treaty and the Treaty of Vienna (1964) which gives a British citizen freedom of movement in Ireland. These could be up for renegotiation, should there be an exit from the EU.

Personally, I want to keep my EU citizenship, it would make living in Ireland more stable. Furthermore, I would like to also work and do business in the EU for short periods of time. With a Brexit that may very well change things for me this way. I never got Irish citizenship before because it costs a lot to naturalize and is a complicated process and my existing passport gave me pretty much the same rights. Now that I am in college full time (with the Back to Education Allowance), I can not apply for Irish citizenship according to the rules of naturalisation. I have to have been living in Ireland for the last 3 years without any state support.

Since I have lived in Ireland for 20 years or so I would like to know, if there is an expert one could consult on immigration in this area because I would like to see if there is anyway getting Irish citizenship now. By the way my grandad was born in the UK to Irish parents but apparently this doesn't count unless he was registered on the Irish Foreign Births register which didn't exist back then. My father is entitled to citizenship by decent but even if he applied for it now, I won't be entitled to it.

Many thanks for any advice.

ohnonotgmail

i dont think you have much cause for concern. there was no requirement for work permits for british citizens before britain joined the EU and i dont expect that to change if britain leaves the EU.

Carawaystick

soapbloggs wrote: »

The UK has two treaties with Ireland, the Common Area Treaty and the Treaty of Vienna (1964) which gives a British citizen freedom of movement in Ireland. These could be up for renegotiation, should there be an exit from the EU.

Why do you think these 2 treaties signed between Ireland and Britain would be up for renegotiation?

The Good Friday Agreement would suggest these will not change, as if the people of the North decide to join the south, all the uk citizens there would be in the situation you would be in.

hullaballoo

I agree and I would also suggest that should any pre-existing treaties be subject to review, the product of any such review will be strengthened ties between Ireland and the UK.

soapbloggs

hullaballoo wrote: »

I agree and I would also suggest that should any pre-existing treaties be subject to review, the product of any such review will be strengthened ties between Ireland and the UK.

Hopefully it is much hullabaloo about nothing. The Vienna Treaty will keep the EEA agreements honoured after an exit. However this will then be challenged because the UK will want to place EU immigration caps. Who knows, it then may be the Common Area agreement on freedom of movement will be challenged by the EU as it would mean Britain is giving preference to the Irish over other EU citizens. Then again I'm no expert but without the Leave campaign clearly outlining how things will stand for us, I am unsure. Personally I feel a Brexit is too much of an unknown & not properly thought through. Too many 'if' & 'maybe's. Anyway as I said it is important for me to keep my freedom of movement within the EU.

Pro Hoc Vice

soapbloggs wrote: »

Hi,

A strange thing might happen should Britain choose to exit the EU in June. As a British expatriate living in Ireland on a British passport, I will enter a limbo phase where I no longer will know what my future status will be. It could end up being anything from keeping all my existing rights to having to obtain work permits and other obstacles. It may take years before this is sorted out. The UK has two treaties with Ireland, the Common Area Treaty and the Treaty of Vienna (1964) which gives a British citizen freedom of movement in Ireland. These could be up for renegotiation, should there be an exit from the EU.

Personally, I want to keep my EU citizenship, it would make living in Ireland more stable. Furthermore, I would like to also work and do business in the EU for short periods of time. With a Brexit that may very well change things for me this way. I never got Irish citizenship before because it costs a lot to naturalize and is a complicated process and my existing passport gave me pretty much the same rights. Now that I am in college full time (with the Back to Education Allowance), I can not apply for Irish citizenship according to the rules of naturalisation. I have to have been living in Ireland for the last 3 years without any state support.

Since I have lived in Ireland for 20 years or so I would like to know, if there is an expert one could consult on immigration in this area because I would like to see if there is anyway getting Irish citizenship now. By the way my grandad was born in the UK to Irish parents but apparently this doesn't count unless he was registered on the Irish Foreign Births register which didn't exist back then. My father is entitled to citizenship by decent but even if he applied for it now, I won't be entitled to it.

Many thanks for any advice.

As you have resided in excess of 5 years you can apply for naturalisation you can do it yourself or use the service of an immigration solicitor.

soapbloggs

Thanks, yeah I had a look at the immigration website, it stipulates you have to have been self sufficient (not on state benefits) during the last 3 years. I am receiving some social benefits whilst at college (funded to help me get back into work). I'll look into immigration lawyers in Ireland, maybe there's one who's good at helping Brexit refugees.

Victor

soapbloggs wrote: »

Who knows, it then may be the Common Area agreement on freedom of movement will be challenged by the EU as it would mean Britain is giving preference to the Irish over other EU citizens.

If the UK was no longer in the EU, there would be little the EU could do.

soapbloggs

Victor wrote: »

If the UK was no longer in the EU, there would be little the EU could do.

Call me paranoid but I've seen how influential the EU is over Switzerland & it isn't even in the EEA let alone EU. The punishment it recieved for voting to end freedom of movement was harsh. Even though the Swiss haven't enacted it yet. I think the UK over estimates itself & will have a tough time winning favourable terms from a narked off EU.

esforum

Freedom of movement between EU states wasnt an issue prior to Britain and Ireland joining the EU, now theres a need for the EU to retain and control external borders.

Should Ireland choose to continue a free movement agreement with Britain would the rest of the EU be happy with that? Does such an agreement exist elsewhere? How would entering Ireland effect British citizens who wanted to go further? As they are now inside the EU could other countries choose to stop them coming from Ireland? The UK and Spain can be fairly prickly with each other when they want to be as Gibraltor shows.

esforum

Freedom of movement between EU states wasnt an issue prior to Britain and Ireland joining the EU, now theres a need for the EU to retain and control external borders.

Should Ireland choose to continue a free movement agreement with Britain would the rest of the EU be happy with that? Does such an agreement exist elsewhere? How would entering Ireland effect British citizens who wanted to go further? As they are now inside the EU could other countries choose to stop them coming from Ireland? The UK and Spain can be fairly prickly with each other when they want to be as Gibraltor shows.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

esforum

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

This has nothing to do with schengen

Carawaystick

esforum wrote: »

Freedom of movement between EU states wasnt an issue prior to Britain and Ireland joining the EU, now theres a need for the EU to retain and control external borders.

Should Ireland choose to continue a free movement agreement with Britain would the rest of the EU be happy with that? Does such an agreement exist elsewhere? How would entering Ireland effect British citizens who wanted to go further? As they are now inside the EU could other countries choose to stop them coming from Ireland? The UK and Spain can be fairly prickly with each other when they want to be as Gibraltor shows.

There's no issue getting into the EU from Friendly states. You can walk in from Andorra or Switzerland or Brazil to France no bother.

You can travel id free from Man to Ireland or the uk at present.

Sami people can go from Norway to the EU also.

I doubt when Slab Murphy gets out he'll be prevented walking across the border in his home. Or people in the Connons of Monaghan will pass 2 border controls to get to the rest of Monaghan

soapbloggs

Freedom of Movement can be about passport free passage, no custom controls and no travel visas, work/business or residence permits. In the case of the CTA all of those apply to Irish and British citizens. Between Switzerland (not EEA or EU) there are border controls to declare to customs but they are in the Schengen Area. Schengen Area allows passport free crossing of borders except during a crises like now. The EU has freedom of movement for immigration and work/business between most states and this includes Ireland and the UK. Switzerland has this too with EU states but officially that will end soon with caps being imposed. My concern would be that a Brexit would lead to work/business caps on British citizens wishing to work in the EU and Ireland. That is why so many British expats are seeking Irish passports suddenly.