Would it matter?

chillin117

My daughter bought a car and since Friday her insurance has come through so she is boxed off. She wants to practice but needs to have an experienced driver with her as she is only a Learner. Do to ill health I let my licence lapse and have applied for a new one. She is fully legal now but would it matter if my licence is lapsed ? I would only be the passenger. Any Idea's ?

listermint

chillin117 wrote: »

My daughter bought a car and since Friday her insurance has come through so she is boxed off. She wants to practice but needs to have an experienced driver with her as she is only a Learner. Do to ill health I let my licence lapse and have applied for a new one. She is fully legal now but would it matter if my licence is lapsed ? I would only be the passenger. Any Idea's ?

Legally you don't hold a license. So it would matter

Squire Ladd

chillin117 wrote: »

My daughter bought a car and since Friday her insurance has come through so she is boxed off. She wants to practice but needs to have an experienced driver with her as she is only a Learner. Do to ill health I let my licence lapse and have applied for a new one. She is fully legal now but would it matter if my licence is lapsed ? I would only be the passenger. Any Idea's ?

You don't have a license so you cannot legally be on the road and neither can she if you're supposed to the the qualified driver in the car

chillin117

Ok Thanks

Special Circumstances

How long is the licence lapsed? If it hasn't been 10 years apply for another one and tbh you're probably fine as is - speak to someone COMPETENT in the insurance company to be sure.


Every time somebody asks this question a load of people make up an answer that it a very serious offence to not have an in date piece of paper, and that your insurance is void.

Rubbish.


Any insurance company I've seen would insure you to drive yourself as is, especially if expired less than 10years. You haven't been disqualified. You are still a fully qualified driver. Most have a clause that states you hold a current license, or held one in the past and are not currently disqualified from holding one. That's for actually driving yourself, but why would it be any different for being an accompanying driver? Not that insurance companies always follow logic but..


Insurance is one thing, gardai are another... They will want to see a valid licence if you come to their attention. So get the replacement licence but you are probably fine from an insurance side. Be careful how you phrase the question to the insurance "I am a fully qualified driver, never disqualified but my licence has expired, replacement applied for, - am I ok to be the accompanying driver for my daughter"

Del2005

I've never had a licence lapse. Does the date of issue on a lapsed licence go with the original date or the date the new licence was issued? As the requirement is that the accompanying passenger has had to have held a full licence in the category for 2 years, if the licence is issued with a 2016 start date the OP can't be the accompanying passenger.

Squire Ladd

You may need to retake your test depending on how long it's out of date

Del2005

I don't think that the OP can be the accompanying person. According to the RSA the person has to have held the licence for a continuous 2 years, by letting it lapse they won't have had it for a continuous 2 years.


https://www.ndls.ie/about-the-learner-permit#other-requirements

Special Circumstances

My licence expired a week before I sat down in the ndls office.

Am I now in a parallel universe where I must have an accompanying driver myself, and cannot act as an accompanying driver for anyone else myself????? The clock has been reset to zero? "Years licence held" on insurance forms is now zero?

The mind boggles.

Fair enough, chiller is in a different legal state if the lapse has been 10years or more. Because he has to re sit a test before getting a new licence. But otherwise he and I are in the same state whether the licence expired 9.99999 days or 9.999999 years ago.

Del2005

Special Circumstances wrote: »

My licence expired a week before I sat down in the ndls office.

Am I now in a parallel universe where I must have an accompanying driver myself, and cannot act as an accompanying driver for anyone else myself????? The clock has been reset to zero? "Years licence held" on insurance forms is now zero?

The mind boggles.

Fair enough, chiller is in a different legal state if the lapse has been 10years or more. Because he has to re sit a test before getting a new licence. But otherwise he and I are in the same state whether the licence expired 9.99999 days or 9.999999 years ago.

You're still fully licensed so don't need to be accompanied, unless you want to, and as already posted insurance is OK. To accompany I'm not sure, the RSA require the person to have held the licence for a continuous 2 years and you haven't as there is a week when you didn't have a licence.

9935452

Del2005 wrote: »

You're still fully licensed so don't need to be accompanied, unless you want to, and as already posted insurance is OK. To accompany I'm not sure, the RSA require the person to have held the licence for a continuous 2 years and you haven't as there is a week when you didn't have a licence.

It depends on how you read 'continuous period of 2 years'
Personally i read it as' have license for 2 years or more'.
It doesnt specifically read continuous period of 2 years up to the present day.
I do believe the meaning of the 2 years is 2 years of experience driving

Del2005

9935452 wrote: »

It depends on how you read 'continuous period of 2 years'
Personally i read it as' have license for 2 years or more'.
It doesnt specifically read continuous period of 2 years up to the present day.
I do believe the meaning of the 2 years is 2 years of experience driving

If the OP or Special Circumstances get stopped they haven't had a licence for a continuous 2 years, but I'm not risking someone getting points for driving outside the terms of their learners permit. The only way to know who's correct is to check the Statutory instrument.

ironclaw

The piece of paper (or plastic) in your pocket is merely an indication of the record that the department of transport has you listed as qualified driver. You can let your license expire a full 10 years before you need a new one. The OP needs to clarify if they have let their license lapse for a period of 10 years or more.

Apply for a replacement and all will be dandy. There is a clear and distinct difference from a legal standpoint of leaving your license lapse i.e. The renewal date passing and your license expire e.g. Waiting longer than 10 years to renew said license. The next complication is if you are stopped by the Gardai, you should be able to produce it and it would be a good idea to be able to do so at the road side (Even with grace periods) as it can make a situation far easier for all involved.

Net result, OP should get their license replacement ASAP and update the insurance company in due course.

Special Circumstances

Del2005 wrote: »

If the OP or Special Circumstances get stopped they haven't had a licence for a continuous 2 years, but I'm not risking someone getting points for driving outside the terms of their learners permit. The only way to know who's correct is to check the Statutory instrument.

I once owned a dog for 10 years. He expired and I no longer owned a dog. I'm thinking of getting another.

Have I owned a dog for more than 2 continuous years?


Substitute "had a licence" for "owned a dog".

chillin117

Special Circumstances wrote: »

How long is the licence lapsed? If it hasn't been 10 years apply for another one and tbh you're probably fine as is - speak to someone COMPETENT in the insurance company to be sure.


Every time somebody asks this question a load of people make up an answer that it a very serious offence to not have an in date piece of paper, and that your insurance is void.

Rubbish.


Any insurance company I've seen would insure you to drive yourself as is, especially if expired less than 10years. You haven't been disqualified. You are still a fully qualified driver. Most have a clause that states you hold a current license, or held one in the past and are not currently disqualified from holding one. That's for actually driving yourself, but why would it be any different for being an accompanying driver? Not that insurance companies always follow logic but..


Insurance is one thing, gardai are another... They will want to see a valid licence if you come to their attention. So get the replacement licence but you are probably fine from an insurance side. Be careful how you phrase the question to the insurance "I am a fully qualified driver, never disqualified but my licence has expired, replacement applied for, - am I ok to be the accompanying driver for my daughter"

Thanks for taking the time, I will call the insurance co today

chillin117

ironclaw wrote: »

The piece of paper (or plastic) in your pocket is merely an indication of the record that the department of transport has you listed as qualified driver. You can let your license expire a full 10 years before you need a new one. The OP needs to clarify if they have let their license lapse for a period of 10 years or more.

Apply for a replacement and all will be dandy. There is a clear and distinct difference from a legal standpoint of leaving your license lapse i.e. The renewal date passing and your license expire e.g. Waiting longer than 10 years to renew said license. The next complication is if you are stopped by the Gardai, you should be able to produce it and it would be a good idea to be able to do so at the road side (Even with grace periods) as it can make a situation far easier for all involved.

Net result, OP should get their license replacement ASAP and update the insurance company in due course.

It is only 2 years lapsed, Thanks for reply

nicol

The continuous period of 2 years clause is to prevent newly qualified (novice) drivers from acting as an accompanying driver to a learner.

However for the OP to be an accompanying driver they must hold a current valid licence. They cannot accompany a learner if they still hold the entitlement but not a licence.

ironclaw

nicol wrote: »

However for the OP to be an accompanying driver they must hold a current valid licence. They cannot accompany a learner if they still hold the entitlement but not a licence.

The OP does have a valid license however, they just don't have the piece of paper / plastic that 'proves it' on the road side. Not having the piece of plastic does not mean you don't hold a valid license. You are, in the eyes of the law, still a fully qualified driver until such time as you let it lapse 10 years. You're offence however would be being unable to produce it, you could not however be prosecuted for driving while not qualified.

We're splitting hairs here anyway. OP just needs to get a replacement