National Club Ch 23-24 April

Tim Harding

SIPTU have announced Luas strikes for the dates of the National Club Championship, 23-24 April.

Since the venue is the Red Cow Moran Hotel, which is hard/slow to get to by any means other than private car or Luas, I expect that this is going to cause serious difficulties for some players, and may lead to a reduced number of entries.

Any chance of a switch to a city centre venue?

sodacat11

The NCC is a "team" competition. Usually people on teams are friendly with each other and I doubt very much that there is a single team in Ireland that does not have access to at least one car. The Red Cow is a great venue, city centre ones like the Teachers Club are the worst imaginable.

sinbad68

Tim Harding wrote: »

SIPTU have announced Luas strikes for the dates of the National Club Championship, 23-24 April.

Since the venue is the Red Cow Moran Hotel, which is hard/slow to get to by any means other than private car or Luas, I expect that this is going to cause serious difficulties for some players, and may lead to a reduced number of entries.

Any chance of a switch to a city centre venue?

First, regarding SIPTU , This organisation's tactic & strategy of causing mayhem and maximum disruption to good ordinary citizens, would make any Anarchist group proud.

As regarding transport to the venue , it is supplied by several bus routes

http://www.redcowmoranhotel.com/transport

So Luas is Not a big issue , specially the fact that it is Red line Luas which is probably less safe than getting a hitchhike with a drunk driver.

sodacat11 wrote: »

The NCC is a "team" competition. Usually people on teams are friendly with each other and I doubt very much that there is a single team in Ireland that does not have access to at least one car. The Red Cow is a great venue, city centre ones like the Teachers Club are the worst imaginable.

Yes,You are right . I always felt team captains should make an effort to see if arrangement can be made for lifts between those who have cars and those who don't. Too often you see it in League games , late at night a player slowly makes his way on his feet in a cold rainy night in crime ridden streets while his team mate zooms past him in his car heading to the same part of town.

Anyway sodacat ,It looks like in a week we will be in the same room and according to my calculation you'll be sitting by the window and me at the back of the room near the door.

Tim Harding

#sodacat11: I think the Trinity team maybe owns between us max two cars and as we would all be travelling from different directions car-sharing is not an option. Other teams maybe have similar problems especially with the 0930 round.

#sinbad68: For people in SW Dublin the Luas ex Tallaght is the best option to/from Red Cow, and slow bus into town then another one out is hardly an adequate substitute. At least Teachers Club or similar just involves one bus for most people.

On the strike, the Ronald Reagan 1981 solution with regard to striking air traffic controllers is looking like the best option; how much training does one need to drive a tram? Maybe cancel the contract with the operating company at the earliest opportunity too. SIPTU's greed is not only very damaging to commuters and tourists; it is bringing the whole trade union movement into huge disrepute.

sinbad68

Tim Harding wrote: »

#sinbad68: For people in SW Dublin the Luas ex Tallaght is the best option to/from Red Cow, and slow bus into town then another one out is hardly an adequate substitute. At least Teachers Club or similar just involves one bus for most people.

There are four good counter arguments against your idea here

1.Change of venue is simply NOT going to happen at this stage

2. No clubs & very few players (if any) that going to play in NCC live in Tallaght area, Tallaght chess club effectively closed as could not put 8 players together for a team and merged with Inchicore.

3. If you google " bus from Tallaght to red cow " bus routes show up and No need to go to city centre . ( click on any of the plans shown in link below to see how )

https://www.google.ie/search?q=bus+from+tallaght+to+red+cow&oq=bus&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j69i60l2j69i59l2.1760j0j1&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

4. Your discussion of change of venue to city centre will make sodacat angry !.

sodacat11

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR The NATIONAL club championship is for teams from all over Ireland, not just Dublin.

wine and final destination

The closing date for entry to NCC is really early so if you have not entered your team enter it before Sunday! If your team is interested register tonight or Tomorrow, I would recommend smaller clubs to participate too as some of the strongest teams from all around the Country have already entered and there are quite a few teams from Leinster and the other provinces trying to get their 6 man teams together! With this new team rating floor of 1450 most clubs should be able to get a team together, even if it is to participate or give younger players a chance to play some of the top players in the country the more teams that enter the better a tournament will be had by all.

sinbad68

With 6 boards per team instead of 8 which is the case in Armstrong, Gonzaga's advantage over their rivals will be greatly reduced and with few rounds in this competition this is a much more open competition as previous NCC has shown and any of 4 teams could win it, if Trinity bring out their best 6 from Armstrong, Gonzaga would have No edge over them . This drop of average rating to 1450 seems designed to help Enniscorthy enter NCC . One surprise is that Benidus with two teams in Armstrong did not enter !, my guess is that, it is too close to exam time for their Juniors and as for the adults, with their recent dismal results, they were simply not in a mood to play. What is happening to Adare team with new rules?

Tim Harding

sinbad68 wrote: »

With 6 boards per team instead of 8 which is the case in Armstrong, Gonzaga's advantage over their rivals will be greatly reduced and with few rounds in this competition this is a much more open competition as previous NCC has shown and any of 4 teams could win it, if Trinity bring out their best 6 from Armstrong, Gonzaga would have No edge over them . This drop of average rating to 1450 seems designed to help Enniscorthy enter NCC . One surprise is that Benidus with two teams in Armstrong did not enter !, my guess is that, it is too close to exam time for their Juniors and as for the adults, with their recent dismal results, they were simply not in a mood to play. What is happening to Adare team with new rules?

I too am surprised Benildus have not entered. They have several players who are not at school.

Trinity have entered but cannot be at full strength because it is too close to undergraduate exams so in fact Gonzaga's advantage is greater than in the Armstrong - especially if they include French GM Sebastian Maze who has, I'm told, played the three necessary Armstrong games required to qualify. (Including round 11 in advance which IMHO should not be allowed - rule change required here!)

Of course Trinity and Elm Mount and others will do our best to make a fight for first place but I fear all nine entrants other than Gonzaga are really playing for the second qualifying place in the ECCs.

cdeb

Tim Harding wrote: »

I too am surprised Benildus have not entered. They have several players who are not at school.

More just that with the Irish Juniors, Galway, the last day of the leagues, the NCC and Malahide all in successive weeks, something has to give way.

sinbad68

Tim Harding wrote: »

Of course Trinity and Elm Mount and others will do our best to make a fight for first place but I fear all nine entrants other than Gonzaga are really playing for the second qualifying place in the ECCs.

With only 4 rounds, Results may be closer than you think and Gonzaga are not guaranteed to win the competition despite having a GM,The guy sitting on board 6 is as important as the guy on board 1. I said "IF" Trinity brought out their best 6 they are a match for Gonzaga and if not , different story.

cdeb wrote: »

More just that with the Irish Juniors, Galway, the last day of the leagues, the NCC and Malahide all in successive weeks, something has to give way.

Interesting theory,NCC is more prestigious than Malahide or Glaway. I am confident If benildus advertised for players on their site for NCC they would get enough volunteers to send two teams instead of one !. The more plausible theory is that their titled players are feeling and due to recent results and Not in the mood for play and the club decided they couldn't really send a team with their titled players missing.

cdeb

sinbad68 wrote: »

Interesting theory,NCC is more prestigious than Malahide or Glaway.

Is it? Bit of a subjective view there. Seeing as the first team organise the NCC entry amongst themselves (for obvious reasons), for the rest of us, Malahide or Galway is a more important tournament.

sinbad68 wrote: »

I am confident If benildus advertised for players on their site for NCC they would get enough volunteers to send two teams instead of one !

Why would we advertise on our site?

In any event, you can't send two teams.

sinbad68 wrote: »

the club decided they couldn't really send a team with their titled players missing.

Who are our titled players (plural)?

Tim Harding

cdeb wrote: »

...

Who are our titled players (plural)?

Quite, I thought that was a strange remark too.
Benildus has one titled player: FM Stephen Brady. Possibly Mel could claim a CM if he was ever above 2200 FIDE in recent years.
Were any of the others ever above 2200?

cdeb

Zdravko was at one stage actually.

I think Gerry may have brushed it once, but back in the 90s. He was 2180 when selected for the Elista Olympiad.

Mel is currently 2231 FIDE, and has been above 2200 since 2000 at least, but he has no title.

Don't think anyone else did, but could be wrong.

Anyways, for me, the main talking point out of all this will be to see what sort of team Adare manage with the new rules. The Munster leagues website is fairly out of date, but here's who played for them in the first four rounds of the leagues. A decent team, for sure, but not one that you would imagine would trouble Gonzaga or Trinity in particular. But I don't know who has played for them since.

Is it three league games that's the minimum requirement to play in the NCC?

Tim Harding

cdeb wrote: »

Anyways, for me, the main talking point out of all this will be to see what sort of team Adare manage with the new rules. The Munster leagues website is fairly out of date, but here's who played for them in the first four rounds of the leagues. A decent team, for sure, but not one that you would imagine would trouble Gonzaga or Trinity in particular. But I don't know who has played for them since.

Is it three league games that's the minimum requirement to play in the NCC?

Yes. See the rules adopted at last year's egm.
So Adare seem to be restricted to those players who have played at least three league games for them in the 2015/16 season.
As you say, that website is hopelessly out of date. Can anyone please supply a more up to date resource to see who is qualified for the Munster clubs?

Yesterday Gerry Graham told the team captains that he would publish the team lists and first round draw next Saturday. Perhaps he needs the time to check the eligibility status of some nominated players, not necessarily only from Adare.

sinbad68

cdeb wrote: »

Is it? Bit of a subjective view there. Seeing as the first team organise the NCC entry amongst themselves (for obvious reasons), for the rest of us, Malahide or Galway is a more important tournament.

A competition with it's top two going to European club championship is more prestigious than these two locally held tournaments.

cdeb wrote: »

Why would we advertise on our site?

In any event, you can't send two teams.

Well you have to inform your members some how, method is irrelevant, I was just mentioning site as one of methods which has been used by benildus in the past.
I am well aware that only one team per club can be sent and was just implying that level of interest would attract more players than was needed for one team. If a tiny club like Enniscorthy can send a team to Dublin, I am sure Benildus could put 6 players together if they wanted to

cdeb wrote: »

Who are our titled players (plural)?

One is Stephen Brady as was mentioned and the other was Gerard O'connell who has the title of Leinster Champion 1992 ( if memory serves me right ). I mentioned " Titled players" and did not say "Fide titles" , come to think of it, players who hold an official position in a club or ICU can also be described as having a Title.

The word "Title" has so many meanings

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/title

wine and final destination

I too think it's a shame that Benildus can't send a team as this should be one of the premier team events of the year with teams having a chance to play teams outside their own league and province! The reward for the top two teams certainly is more prestigious than a plastic trophy or a few hundred Euro in prize money, in my opinion anyway. Regardless of Sinbads interpretation of titled players which people may agree or disagree with, Benildus do have 3 very strong players in the top 30 in the country as well as some very promising juniors top to mention 2 Armstrong squads of decent club players! Hopefully next year they may be able to enter a team as the more strong clubs that play the better it will be for the competition!

cdeb

Hey - sinbad will have you believe winning Malahide gets you a title!

Better than an expensive holiday a team with me on it isn't going to win.

wine and final destination

Most people enter tournaments not with the idea of winning but simply because they enjoy playing chess! I know you enjoyed this season in the Armstrong but I'm sure you didn't believe you would win the league but participating in top team events Is enjoyable and the NCC is the top teams in the country not just Leinster which makes it such an enjoyable event for everyone! I really would prioritise it over any individual event other than the Irish. Plus the Format allows for quite a few upsets giving weaker teams a much better chance of causing an upset! A few years ago Gonzaga were top seeds and finished 4th behind 2 teams from Munster and 1 team from Connaught and at least 2 of those teams would be weaker than a Benildus team on paper!

cdeb

wine and final destination wrote: »

Most people enter tournaments not with the idea of winning but simply because they enjoy playing chess!

For sure.

But that brings me back to my original point anyway, whatever about others. For me, I didn't even consider the NCC as I've never been selected for it, and so I entered Malahide instead. To play the NCC as well would mean four weekends in five gone to chess.

It's a pity we don't have a team in it alright. But that's the way.

wine and final destination

In fairness there's a few strong teams who can't make it, a few of which are frequent playing teams like Ennis and Galway! sometimes it's just not possible to get a team together! Given the tournament congestion at this time of year as you pointed out it might be worth investigating whether it would be better to play the NCC at a different time of year? That said 10 teams is a good turn out!

cdeb

Ten teams is a good turnout alright. But more importantly, I think if the rule changes mean that the tournament regains some of the respectability it lost in recent years, it'll be a very good year for it and it'll be stronger again next year. Teams importing players turned it into a bit of a farce of a tournament.

sinbad68

cdeb wrote: »

Hey - sinbad will have you believe winning Malahide gets you a title!

Yes, Winning Malahide gets you the Title of " Leinster chess champion " and it is a very tough title to get.

Fide has cdeb and others believe it is okay to call 1500 rated players " Chess Masters" and give them a Fide title if they are female but Mel O'Cinneide of Benildus who is rated well over 2200 doesn't deserve a title and is NOT a chess master !.

sodacat11

Sadly the NCC has been tainted in the eyes of many people because of certain clubs importing mercenaries to further their own selfish ambitions, so much so that the title National Club Championship is now almost a misnomer. If St Benildus don't wish to enter a team then that's their choice and they shouldn't be criticized for it. We may not have a government but the last time I looked this was still a democracy.

Tim Harding

sodacat11 wrote: »

Sadly the NCC has been tainted in the eyes of many people because of certain clubs importing mercenaries to further their own selfish ambitions, so much so that the title National Club Championship is now almost a misnomer. If St Benildus don't wish to enter a team then that's their choice and they shouldn't be criticized for it. We may not have a government but the last time I looked this was still a democracy.

I hope that this is the year that Adare will be knocked off their perch and won't even qualify for the ECC, making two places open for genuine clubs. Then in future other clubs will be inclined to give it a try.

Adare may even have a genuine team without imports this time but I'm not sure about that. Team lists are not posted yet but I hear they are seeded 3 which suggests they may have more than the resident Romanians. If so, they must have brought them in for Munster league matches whose results are missing on that website mentioned earlier.

Or it may just be that some of the Armstrong clubs are not at full strength.

Of course Adare do have some useful resident players. Diana Mirza just put the boys in their place by winning the Irish Under-16s.

At any rate it does look like being a genuine Irish tournament this time, though it's a pity there is no northern participation.

cdeb

The seedings are up on the ICU website now -

1. Gonzaga
2. Trinity
3. Adare
4. Blanchardstown
5. Bray
6. Rathmines
7. Balbriggan
8. Elm Mount
9. Enniscorthy
10. Ballinsloe

So still a strong Adare team, as the initial rounds of the Munster leagues suggest. (The website I linked, incidentally, isn't being used any more for the Munster leagues)

Blanch at 4 and Elm Mount down at 8 slight surprises - but again, one absentee from the regular league team can swing the team average a fair bit (in Elm Mount's case, up to 100 points if David Fitzsimons isn't playing, for example)

reunion

cdeb wrote: »

So still a strong Adare team, as the initial rounds of the Munster leagues suggest. (The website I linked, incidentally, isn't being used any more for the Munster leagues)

This is the site of individual board results in the munster league

Tim Harding

Thanks for that link. I see that Adare have used 11 players in the 10 rounds of the Munster league this season; only their top board played every match.

With only five playing each match, they had to make changes in order to qualify as many as possible for the NCC but only eight appear eligible (so far). However the schedule on the site shows that two more rounds will be played this weekend.

Three of the eleven (Duffy, Sudolski, and Poisseroux) have only played two rounds each so are apparently not going to be on their team unless they play at least one of this weekend's rounds.

It will be interesting to see which seven players Adare actually have nominated for the NCC and who is omitted (or just unavailable on the weekend).

Probably Tirziman will be playing for Adare but he also plays for Blanchardstown in the Leinster leagues.

I am puzzled why that site doesn't display ratings for some of their players. It's FIDE ratings that apply for NCC seedings.

Top board Oissine Murphy appears in ICU ratings at 2088 and is presumably the MURCRHADHA, Oissine who is 2024 FIDE.

Sylwester Sudolski (POL) has 1888 FIDE but is not in the ICU live ratings.

Drahoslav Stejskal (CZE) is 1872 FIDE and 1881 ICU.

Tim Harding

Team lists are now posted.

Oissine Murphy is NOT playing for Adare and it looks as if it's Elm Mount's second team.

Most strange: are Balbriggan really going to default board 6 in every match or will an exception be made to allow them to find another player?

sinbad68

Tim Harding wrote: »

Most strange: are Balbriggan really going to default board 6 in every match or will an exception be made to allow them to find another player?

If a club doesn't have 6 players to field a full team in this competition, they have NO business entering it in first place and Organisers should have Not allowed the entry.

cdeb

Were Balbriggan the last team to enter?

Maybe the ICU just decided a 5-man team was better than having an odd number of teams.