Importance of Grazing silage fields

dh1985

I am just curious as to whether it is essential to graze silage fields prior to holding them up for silage. I reseeded some ground last September and I was wondering is it prudent to graze before holding it up. It's away from the main block of land at home and so is not ideal to get cows with young calves to at this time of year. I have attached a photo of the current grass as is. It has yet to be sprayed and I want to cut it late May so I am half tempted just to let it be for now. Any suggestions welcome. Cheers

freedominacup

dh1985 wrote: »

I am just curious as to whether it is essential to graze silage fields prior to holding them up for silage. I reseeded some ground last September and I was wondering is it prudent to graze before holding it up. It's away from the main block of land at home and so is not ideal to get cows with young calves to at this time of year. I have attached a photo of the current grass as is. It has yet to be sprayed and I want to cut it late May so I am half tempted just to let it be for now. Any suggestions welcome. Cheers

You need to graze it to get it to tiller. If you don't graze it the award will be very thin. Sooner the better.

C0N0R

As said graze it to get it to tiller, put the plant under attack will make it grow

dh1985

C0N0R wrote: »

As said graze it to get it to tiller, put the plant under attack will make it grow

Cheers guys. Will see about getting something to it this weekend.

mahoney_j

freedominacup wrote: »

You need to graze it to get it to tiller. If you don't graze it the award will be very thin. Sooner the better.

+1

visatorro

Is it any addition going over it with a disc mower if you hadn't stock light enough to graze it? Toppings wouldn't be heavy and would rot away fine?

Jimlh86

visatorro wrote: »

Is it any addition going over it with a disc mower if you hadn't stock light enough to graze it? Toppings wouldn't be heavy and would rot away fine?

If it wasn't suiting to graze it that's the way to go. Seems like a waste of what looks like decent grass for this time of the year?

Jimlh86

visatorro wrote: »

Is it any addition going over it with a disc mower if you hadn't stock light enough to graze it? Toppings wouldn't be heavy and would rot away fine?

If it wasn't suiting to graze it that's the way to go. Seems like a waste of what looks like decent grass for this time of the year?

pedigree 6

Jimlh86 wrote: »

If it wasn't suiting to graze it that's the way to go. Seems like a waste of what looks like decent grass for this time of the year?

It would be the best grass you could ever get and I mean that.
Cows will milk off it better and hoggets/sheep/cattle will fatten quicker.
Nothing compares to newly reseeded grass as some would say here rocket fuel.:)

fanadman1

I dont know where you live but i know if a cow man around here wanted a newly reseeded bit grazed and it was 2 wet for his stock he would have a line of sheep men(myself included) courting him for the plesure. You could get a few pound for it seeing as grass supplies are tight.

White Clover

visatorro wrote: »

Is it any addition going over it with a disc mower if you hadn't stock light enough to graze it? Toppings wouldn't be heavy and would rot away fine?

You'd only be increasing the acidity in the soil with the decaying grass. Another reason why topping should be avoided as much as possible.

C0N0R

Surey if you can travel turn etc with a disc mower you can let some form of cattle on?? As said I'd sell the grass to someone before doing that if I didn't have capable stock

dh1985

Thanks for the input. The ground was dry three weeks ago when I took that photo so I would think it only got better this past week. No fear of cutting it up just the hassle of transporting cattle to it had me against putting cows on to it. I will sort something this weekend and get in and out quickly on it

larthehar

Get sheep in ASAP, will crown the reseed. Also the a few bob for you!

Dickie10

if i let cattle graze a 20 acre field im holding up for silage in mid april , would they dirty it with their dung too much?

charolais0153

Dickie10 wrote: »

if i let cattle graze a 20 acre field im holding up for silage in mid april , would they dirty it with their dung too much?

Block graze/ strip gracze . itll knock the grass otherwise

riemann

White Clover wrote: »

Another reason why topping should be avoided as much as possible.

I've never heard this philosophy before. Would be interested to read up on it, does anyone have any links where one may learn more?

Reggie.

White Clover wrote: »

You'd only be increasing the acidity in the soil with the decaying grass. Another reason why topping should be avoided as much as possible.

A bag of gran lime to the acre would cure that

_Brian

riemann wrote: »

I've never heard this philosophy before. Would be interested to read up on it, does anyone have any links where one may learn more?

Yea.
I’ve been told tipping is good as it’s adding organic matter back to the soil ?

GrasstoMilk

Reggie. wrote: »

A bag of gran lime to the acre would cure that

Some expense just because it can't be grazed. Topping off perfectly good grass and then gran lime.
Let it up itll be fine. Some of ours wont be grazed this year and will be cut mid may

Mooooo

If there is a a share of yellow in the base this will reduce the quality if left till the end of May. If you can't get stock on it and it's dry ground freshly reseeded I would mow and bale early and then cut it again before the end of May. Quality would be much better and it's the highest growth months of the year.

freedominacup

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Some of ours wont be grazed this year and will be cut mid may

The way gr are atm I'd be seriously reassessing that plan in early April if I was you. Serious covers on ungrazed ground atm. You could probably get a cut in early April if weather was right and get another quality cut around 15th of May as well.

Edit I'd definitely go easy on the fert application in March to allow myself the option in early April. You can always top it up if weather and gr don't play ball. Impossible to take it out though.

older by the day

What about putting 2 bags of 18.6.12 on it, cut and bale it in 4 wks time and don't be bolloxing around topping good grass the start of April. Then out with slurry and fert

GrasstoMilk

freedominacup wrote: »

The way gr are atm I'd be seriously reassessing that plan in early April if I was you. Serious covers on ungrazed ground atm. You could probably get a cut in early April if weather was right and get another quality cut around 15th of May as well.

Edit I'd definitely go easy on the fert application in March to allow myself the option in early April. You can always top it up if weather and gr don't play ball. Impossible to take it out though.

Good idea. I actually got soil samples back from one bit of ground we took last year, got it late in the year so did no soil samples.
Ph 5.6 to 5.9
P and ks very low index 2 nearly index one. It's getting 3 bags of 0 7 30 tomorrow has had a full bag of urea (for all it'll do at that ph!) And was going to give it 1.5 bags of urea plus sulphur just after paddy's

Never wrestle with pigs

freedominacup wrote: »

The way gr are atm I'd be seriously reassessing that plan in early April if I was you. Serious covers on ungrazed ground atm. You could probably get a cut in early April if weather was right and get another quality cut around 15th of May as well.

Edit I'd definitely go easy on the fert application in March to allow myself the option in early April. You can always top it up if weather and gr don't play ball. Impossible to take it out though.

I have a similar problem. By the time I graze my silage ground this year I think that my grazing ground will be way to heavy. I'm carrying less stock this year. It was grazed clean last back end. It's a nice green swart at the moment. Got no fert or slurry yet. To much grass for slurry now. Would you just cut it early April if conditions allow and leave it be or put out some fert and cut early April? Thanks

grange mac

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Good idea. I actually got soil samples back from one bit of ground we took last year, got it late in the year so did no soil samples.
Ph 5.6 to 5.9
P and ks very low index 2 nearly index one. It's getting 3 bags of 0 7 30 tomorrow has had a full bag of urea (for all it'll do at that ph!) And was going to give it 1.5 bags of urea plus sulphur just after paddy's

Talking to few guys about sulphur, both reckon cannot make good silage with it. Wont be buying anything with sulphur this year.

Mooooo

grange mac wrote: »

Talking to few guys about sulphur, both reckon cannot make good silage with it. Wont be buying anything with sulphur this year.

With all due respect they are wrong. It helps the plant convert nitrogen into protein

mahoney_j

grange mac wrote: »

Talking to few guys about sulphur, both reckon cannot make good silage with it. Wont be buying anything with sulphur this year.

Sorry but that’s nonsense

grange mac

mahoney_j wrote: »

Sorry but that’s nonsense

Maybe I don't know, I just don't want poor silage this year so for myself I will leave it off. Everyone entitled to their opinion.

But thanks for both inputs guys. Noted & I'll do some more research on it.

ganmo

grange mac wrote: »

Maybe I don't know, I just don't want poor silage this year so for myself I will leave it off. Everyone entitled to their opinion.

But thanks for both inputs guys. Noted & I'll do some more research on it.

Chemistry isn't opinion based.
Sulphur is used in a lot of chemicals by grass.
I don't like using it due to the role it plays in locking up certain trace elements in the soil

jaymla627

ganmo wrote: »

Chemistry isn't opinion based.
Sulphur is used in a lot of chemicals by grass.
I don't like using it due to the role it plays in locking up certain trace elements in the soil

Very good point used a lot of sulphur here the past few years on best advise by the grass experts and now having done in-depth forage mineral analysis on 18’s silage it’s at dangerously high levels so will be cutting way back on it with just a blast of it for 1st cut silage ground and one round on the grazing block

mahoney_j

jaymla627 wrote: »

Very good point used a lot of sulphur here the past few years on best advise by the grass experts and now having done in-depth forage mineral analysis on 18’s silage it’s at dangerously high levels so will be cutting way back on it with just a blast of it for 1st cut silage ground and one round on the grazing block

How much sulphur did u use to give dangerously high levels ????,used it from first round right through to late June 25/30 units across all rounds little and often and def growing more grass on back of it

jaymla627

mahoney_j wrote: »

How much sulphur did u use to give dangerously high levels ????,used it from first round right through to late June 25/30 units across all rounds little and often and def growing more grass on back of it

Similar to yourself it definitely grows more grass but if its locking up minerals in the process it’s a fools errand

ganmo

jaymla627 wrote: »

Similar to yourself it definitely grows more grass but if its locking up minerals in the process it’s a fools errand

It's only part of the puzzle when it comes to locking up minerals, like if there's high molybdenum too it'll lock up copper

Mooooo

Wouldn't go with products like asn, would go with sulfa can etc, stuff with 5 to 7% sulphur over a few rounds

jaymla627

ganmo wrote: »

It's only part of the puzzle when it comes to locking up minerals, like if there's high molybdenum too it'll lock up copper

It would surprise you, cows where on 2nd cut silage up till last month that had pretty normal sulphur levels and the calsea pre calver blocks where lasting 5 days per 20 dry cows, since switching to 1st cut which has sky-high sulphur levels, only getting 2 days per 20 cows out of a block

mahoney_j

jaymla627 wrote: »

Similar to yourself it definitely grows more grass but if its locking up minerals in the process it’s a fools errand

I’m feeding meal all year whilst milking with hi spec mineral pack in it as well as bolusing pre breeding so not massively worried like moo mentioned not a fan of big s applications in one go just drip feed it for first 6 months

Say my name

It's a combination of high sulphur, iron and a low soil pH that does the locking up business of selenium and copper.

The remedy is more calcium in the soil. So more lime.

jaymla627

Say my name wrote: »

It's a combination of high sulphur, iron and a low soil pH that does the locking up business of selenium and copper.

The remedy is more calcium in the soil. So more lime.

4 ton plus of lime/ac gone out on all the grazing block the past few years. going with two bags of physioplith from grassland-Agro yearly as well, ph wouldn’t be a limiting factor, copper isn’t a problem here, but selenium is a massive issue, have to get Goulding’s to put double rate into the fert mixes here to raise levels, as they where non-existent on silage samples done in 17, 18’s selenium levels where nearly average so it worked but the issue of to much sulphur is potentially locking this up now in the soil

GrasstoMilk

jaymla627 wrote: »

It would surprise you, cows where on 2nd cut silage up till last month that had pretty normal sulphur levels and the calsea pre calver blocks where lasting 5 days per 20 dry cows, since switching to 1st cut which has sky-high sulphur levels, only getting 2 days per 20 cows out of a block

Jesus that's savage usage jay! Are you dusting silage with minerals aswell?. Big fan of the calsea blocks here. Put in the high phos one 2 weeks ago for the milkers. 5 bulling today, 2 most days. We use the precalver ones here as kind of a top up, they lick them but we were getting a week from a block when they were all dry

jaymla627

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Jesus that's savage usage jay! Are you dusting silage with minerals aswell?. Big fan of the calsea blocks here. Put in the high phos one 2 weeks ago for the milkers. 5 bulling today, 2 most days. We use the precalver ones here as kind of a top up, they lick them but we were getting a week from a block when they were all dry

Solely rely on them with lifeline precalver powder going in 3 weeks before due date, usually takes half a block per cow to get it through dry period of 6-7 weeks, its costly but herd health has been transformed since switching from powder minerals to blocks

Damo810

What are lads spreading on rented ground? Older sward, have slurry available but it'll be a week before I can get out with it. Would 3000G + 3 bags of can do the trick or should I go 27-2.5-5? Could I go with Urea instead of CAN?

Looking to build soil indexes at home, no slurry available, 3 bags/acre of 0-7-30 and 3-4 bags of can? Or would I be better going with 10-10-20.

Theres an odd rush on some of the new rented ground, when could I spray? Or is there any point, give them a quick top and get fert out this week?

wrangler

Damo810 wrote: »

What are lads spreading on rented ground? Older sward, have slurry available but it'll be a week before I can get out with it. Would 3000G + 3 bags of can do the trick or should I go 27-2.5-5? Could I go with Urea instead of CAN?

Looking to build soil indexes at home, no slurry available, 3 bags/acre of 0-7-30 and 3-4 bags of can? Or would I be better going with 10-10-20.

Theres an odd rush on some of the new rented ground, when could I spray? Or is there any point, give them a quick top and get fert out this week?

When we were doing courses etc we used to be told about 'luxuriant' uptake of P and K if you spread them in the spring for silage, in other words all the P and K would come back into the pit in the first cut.
If your ambition was to build indexes it was more efficient to spread in the autumn, is that still right or has it been proven otherwis

GrasstoMilk

wrangler wrote: »

When we were doing courses etc we used to be told about 'luxuriant' uptake of P and K if you spread them in the spring for silage, in other words all the P and K would come back into the pit in the first cut.
If your ambition was to build indexes it was more efficient to spread in the autumn, is that still right or has it been proven otherwis

I've 3 bags of 0 7 30 out on all out silage ground with 10 days..
Some has early N and will get a little bit more next week and we'll cut mid may rest has no N and currently being grazed with maidens, they'll be off it next week and itll get 3.5 bags of CAN plus S.
My first time spreading that much P and k on silage ground in the spring, looking forward to seeing how it turns out as we usually get very good crops of silage.
Dad used to spread 3 bags of 0 7 30 years ago for silage but fell out of it fir one reason or
another

charolais0153

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I've 3 bags of 0 7 30 out on all out silage ground with 10 days..
Some has early N and will get a little bit more next week and we'll cut mid may rest has no N and currently being grazed with maidens, they'll be off it next week and itll get 3.5 bags of CAN plus S.
My first time spreading that much P and k on silage ground in the spring, looking forward to seeing how it turns out as we usually get very good crops of silage.
Dad used to spread 3 bags of 0 7 30 years ago for silage but fell out of it fir one reason or
another

Same here. His indexes were good and he was advised to just spread cut sward:/

Say my name

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I've 3 bags of 0 7 30 out on all out silage ground with 10 days..
Some has early N and will get a little bit more next week and we'll cut mid may rest has no N and currently being grazed with maidens, they'll be off it next week and itll get 3.5 bags of CAN plus S.
My first time spreading that much P and k on silage ground in the spring, looking forward to seeing how it turns out as we usually get very good crops of silage.
Dad used to spread 3 bags of 0 7 30 years ago for silage but fell out of it fir one reason or
another

Would that reason have been milk fever at calving down from being fed on that silage?

Is your land not index 4 for K?

It's naturally high K land over here.

GrasstoMilk

Say my name wrote: »

Would that reason have been milk fever at calving down from being fed on that silage?

Is your land not index 4 for K?

It's naturally high K land over here.

Was advised to only spread N by an advisor and kind of forgot then aswell as affordability.
Were only getting to index 4 now at home after years of heavy spreading.
Land we've taken on is index one and 5.5 ph

Good few on the Boro group would say the same as you about land around here being high in k

Say my name

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Was advised to only spread N by an advisor and kind of forgot then aswell as affordability.
Were only getting to index 4 now at home after years of heavy spreading.
Land we've taken on is index one and 5.5 ph

Good few on the Boro group would say the same as you about land around here being high in k

Is that leased ground high in phosphorus?
Black soil. Granite in origin.

GrasstoMilk

Say my name wrote: »

Is that leased ground high in phosphorus?
Black soil. Granite in origin.

No all in index one and very low ph too. Weve got the land at the grotto into top of index 2 after 5 years and ph is rectified now. Going to overseed that land after the first cut with a hybrid.
The church ground is wicked low, index one and ph 5.5. It got 3 bags of gran lime last Friday and 3 bags of 0 7 30 that week aswell. Ken reseeded it 5 years ago but it has died out in it a good bit because of soil fertility. Cant do much permanent work on it because it's only taken yearly.

Say my name

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

The church ground is wicked low, index one and ph 5.5. It got 3 bags of gran lime last Friday and 3 bags of 0 7 30 that week aswell. Ken reseeded it 5 years ago but it has died out in it a good bit because of soil fertility. Cant do much permanent work on it because it's only taken yearly.

You know yourself but a dose of pig slurry from Hogg's or wherever would crown it.
Go in at nighttime in case the neighbours object. :pac: