08 mondeo shuddering when braking

Independent1

Looking for advice. Have car booked into garage for later in the week but haven't a clue about cars so don't want to come across as completely gormless!

Spent a good bit of money on car back in December pre NCT. Tyres, full service, replaced calipers on all wishbones etc. Lately when breaking hard there is a terrible shudder from the steering wheel. It's not so bad when breaking lightly but very bad when breaking harder. No sound from brakes or anything and it's breaking at normal distance just the steering is shaking like mad when breaking. Brought into garage today and they said to bring it back later in the week and they will look at it for me. Any ideas what could be wrong? Look like a small job or a big fix? Money is NOT good at the moment so fingers crossed.

colm_mcm

Could be a warped brake disc.

Independent1

Would that be an expensive job to repair? Is a disk the same as rotor? I'm very clueless but Google is throwing up the word rotor as a possible problem...

Between this and getting tax this weeks pay will be a tight one

colm_mcm wrote: »

Could be a warped brake disc.

colm_mcm

Rotor and a disc are the same thing
Calipers are the bit of the brake that squeezes the brake pads onto the disc
If the disc is warped, the pads would be moving backwards and forwards when they are pressed against the discs.

You'd get an idea on the parts price on micksgarage.ie and throw maybe €80 on top of that for a rough idea. Price varies depending on brand used.

Independent1

Thanks very much you have been really helpful. At least now I might seem a little less clueless in the garage on Thursday and doesn't sound like it will cost the earth either hopefully. Thanks again.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Rotor and a disc are the same thing
Calipers are the bit of the brake that squeezes the brake pads onto the disc
If the disc is warped, the pads would be moving backwards and forwards when they are pressed against the discs.

You'd get an idea on the parts price on micksgarage.ie and throw maybe €80 on top of that for a rough idea. Price varies depending on brand used.

I have 08 mondeo as well, they're hard enough on tyres & brakes because of the weight, I put up with that juddering for good few weeks before I gave in and got new discs and pads all round, my discs were visibly worn with grooves in them, don't get them online, ones I got from Micksgarage were wrong fit, had to return the pads & get them from main dealer, then the discs were too wide & catching the pads, started making whistling noise on a long trip, had to pull in and let them cool down at risk of warping the discs, they wore down after week or so but at the expense of about 25% of the new pads, lesson learnt, its a great car to drive but a bit high maintenance as few other things have gone on it & in for nct retest tomorrow after failing smoke test.. ps in case you dont know there's 2 timing belts on the tdci's, one's a wet belt and needs to be changed around 120,000 miles as they have a habit of going around then..

Dartz

Might be a damaged/worn tyre too. Check your car's shoes.

biko

During braking:
Does pedal pulsate?
Does car pull to one side only during braking?
Is it only at high speeds or at any speed?

But yeah, prob front disc(s).

Independent1

I only got four new tyres back in December so it shouldn't be that. Thanks for advice about discs and pads though, sounds like it could be a combination of that. What is a tdci? It's a 1.6 petril if that's any help! Got timing belt replaced last May just after I got the car, not sure which belt, I just brought it to mechanic after buying it and he changed the "timing belt" but never mentioned having two or changing two...

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have 08 mondeo as well, they're hard enough on tyres & brakes because of the weight, I put up with that juddering for good few weeks before I gave in and got new discs and pads all round, my discs were visibly worn with grooves in them, don't get them online, ones I got from Micksgarage were wrong fit, had to return the pads & get them from main dealer, then the discs were too wide & catching the pads, started making whistling noise on a long trip, had to pull in and let them cool down at risk of warping the discs, they wore down after week or so but at the expense of about 25% of the new pads, lesson learnt, its a great car to drive but a bit high maintenance as few other things have gone on it & in for nct retest tomorrow after failing smoke test.. ps in case you dont know there's 2 timing belts on the tdci's, one's a wet belt and needs to be changed around 120,000 miles as they have a habit of going around then..

Independent1

As far as I can notice it's just the steering. Nothing noticing everyone in peddle I don't think, maybe a light wobble. It doesn't pull one side just generally just the whole steering wheel jumps around in my hands. If I'm driving slowly in traffic for example I mightn't feel anything but once I'm goin any faster and break it happens then. Was on mountain roads at weekend and thought I would never make it home it was so bad

biko wrote: »

During braking:
Does pedal pulsate?
Does car pull to one side only during braking?
Is it only at high speeds or at any speed?

But yeah, prob front disc(s).

Independent1

Independent1 wrote: »

I only got four new tyres back in December so it shouldn't be that. Thanks for advice about discs and pads though, sounds like it could be a combination of that. What is a tdci? It's a 1.6 petril if that's any help! Got timing belt replaced last May just after I got the car, not sure which belt, I just brought it to mechanic after buying it and he changed the "timing belt" but never mentioned having two or changing two...

ok you have petrol version, I have the 1.8 tdci (turbo diesel) so most likely different belts etc, I'd say its definitely discs as sounds same as issue I had - steering wheel vibration

If you are getting discs replaced you'll need new pads also as the ones you have now will probably have the same grooves as on worn discs and you don't want those damaging the new ones

Veloce

colm_mcm wrote: »

Could be a warped brake disc.

Do mean disc thickness variation resulting in excessive runout as opposed to a warped disc?

kunst nugget

Independent1 wrote: »

I only got four new tyres back in December so it shouldn't be that. Thanks for advice about discs and pads though, sounds like it could be a combination of that. What is a tdci? It's a 1.6 petril if that's any help! Got timing belt replaced last May just after I got the car, not sure which belt, I just brought it to mechanic after buying it and he changed the "timing belt" but never mentioned having two or changing two...

It's most likely a warped disc, I had to get one replaced myself last year, but did you get the wheels tracked and aligned after getting the four tyres replaced?

Veloce

kunst nugget wrote: »

It's most likely a warped disc, I had to get one replaced myself last year, but did you get the wheels tracked and aligned after getting the four tyres replaced?

How did you manage to 'warp' a cast iron brake disc out of curiosity?

martinr5232

When you driving normally on an open road and you brake gently can you feel a pulsing through the brake pedal ??

If not then its probably not a brake disc.

After driving for a while check the temperature of each front wheel it sounds to me like you may have either a brake pad sticking or a seized brake calliper.

kunst nugget

Veloce wrote: »

How did you manage to 'warp' a cast iron brake disc out of curiosity?

The mechanic said it could have a stone or rock hitting off it. I'll have to take him at his word on it. The judder was terrible when braking before he replaced it.

Independent1

No it seems pretty smooth when I push the brakes it is not coming from the pedal I think it's just the steering. I have it booked into the garage in the morning. Will report back afterwards.
Thanks everyone

martinr5232 wrote: »

When you driving normally on an open road and you brake gently can you feel a pulsing through the brake pedal ??

If not then its probably not a brake disc.

After driving for a while check the temperature of each front wheel it sounds to me like you may have either a brake pad sticking or a seized brake calliper.

martinr5232

martinr5232 wrote: »

When you driving normally on an open road and you brake gently can you feel a pulsing through the brake pedal ??

If not then its probably not a brake disc.

Don't know where you're getting that from, I wasn't getting any feedback off pedal with mine yet changing the discs completely stopped steering wheel judder

biko

The uneven disc will cause the pads to vibrate, this travels up through the brake fluid into the pedal.
This isn't always the case but if it happens it's a fairly clear indicator.

golfpaul

Veloce wrote: »

How did you manage to 'warp' a cast iron brake disc out of curiosity?

The last time this happened to me I was told that it can happen when either using brakes hard for a bit and then travelling through a small flood or else after being hard on the brakes for a bit and then stopping at traffic lights, if you keep your foot on the brakes rest of the discs cool a lot faster than the disc under under the pads.

cletus

golfpaul wrote: »

The last time this happened to me I was told that it can happen when either using brakes hard for a bit and then travelling through a small flood or else after being hard on the brakes for a bit and then stopping at traffic lights, if you keep your foot on the brakes rest of the discs cool a lot faster than the disc under under the pads.

I think the point of the post you replied to was a demonstration of superior knowledge of the topic. The poster is trying to let us all know that rotors don't "warp", they develop an uneven surface, which causes run out, and more importantly, he knows it

Kinda pointless really, most people understand what is meant when rotors are referred to as " warped"

Veloce

cletus wrote: »

I think the point of the post you replied to was a demonstration of superior knowledge of the topic. The poster is trying to let us all know that rotors don't "warp", they develop an uneven surface, which causes run out, and more importantly, he knows it

Kinda pointless really, most people understand what is meant when rotors are referred to as " warped"

Superior knowledge - not really. But warped in the literal sense is not the correct term for a dtv issue and you seem to understand that so fair play. But I would disagree with most people understanding what a "warped" disc is. I've had this issue before and reputable main dealers and independent mechanics have told me that that the causes of a warped disc are due to the issue was the actual the warping of a brake disc metal through the hub line and not the fact that uneven pad transfer had occurred (which was the issue) - there's a complete lack of understanding.

But I guess it's a pointless discussion. Brake discs are cheap and mechanics are happy to replace them and again when the issue reoccurs.

cletus

Veloce wrote: »

Superior knowledge - not really. But warped in the literal sense is not the correct term for a dtv issue and you seem to understand that so fair play. But I would disagree with most people understanding what a "warped" disc is. I've had this issue before and reputable main dealers and independent mechanics have told me that that the causes of a warped disc are due to the issue was the actual the warping of a brake disc metal through the hub line and not the fact that uneven pad transfer had occurred (which was the issue) - there's a complete lack of understanding.

But I guess it's a pointless discussion. Brake discs are cheap and mechanics are happy to replace them and again when the issue reoccurs.

Its not a pointless discussion, but neither of your previous two posts added any knowledge or information, they merely questioned other posters, while vaguely alluding to some info that you are obviously privy to, yet didn't furnish.

You could have said something along the lines of 'rotors don't really warp, brake pads can leave deposits on the face when they get too hot, especially if they weren't bedded in properly. Get pads and rotors changed, make sure to bed them properly, and try to avoid keeping the brake pedal pressed for long periods, especially after hard braking'.

As for people understanding the term warped discs, I think anybody with even a passing interest in cars realises that, through whatever mechanism, the rotors have become uneven, causing juddering

Veloce

cletus wrote: »

Its not a pointless discussion, but neither of your previous two posts added any knowledge or information, they merely questioned other posters, while vaguely alluding to some info that you are obviously privy to, yet didn't furnish.

You could have said something along the lines of 'rotors don't really warp, brake pads can leave deposits on the face when they get too hot, especially if they weren't bedded in properly. Get pads and rotors changed, make sure to bed them properly, and try to avoid keeping the brake pedal pressed for long periods, especially after hard braking'.

As for people understanding the term warped discs, I think anybody with even a passing interest in cars realises that, through whatever mechanism, the rotors have become uneven, causing juddering

Well actually, it is a pointless discussion as the OP is getting mechanic to look at it and hopefully sort it out.

But "warped" is still not the correct terminology for this issue - whether people understand that the rotor [surface] is uneven causing a pulsation or not - A passing interest in cars on irrelevant. It's what is technically correct and what is not. So I disagree with people using the term warping - and even more so on an internet forum where people are taking wild guesses about what the issue is and using incorrect terminology and assuming people have an inherent understanding that it's not actual warping but something else.

And when I hear reputable mechanics (with more than just a passing interest in cars I hope) explaining that entire disc has become untrue due to heat or whatever reason - it doesn't inspire much confidence that they understand the issue or what caused it. Then they skim the discs when they are still attached to the hub mechanism which is just wrong.

I've yet to see a mechanic use a dial gauge when fitting a set of discs in a garage - grand for regular discs with a small diameter that can tolerate a larger lateral runout.

Independent1

Just an update. Apparently I needed new brake pads and discs. Something or other was warped! €220 down and now to get my tax it will be beans for the month.

XLR 8

Independent1 wrote: »

Just an update. Apparently I needed new brake pads and discs. Something or other was warped! €220 down and now to get my tax it will be beans for the month.

That ain't a bad price in fairness. There is some selection of beans to be had nowadays not just plain baked ones. Every cloud

XLR 8

XLR 8 wrote: »

There is some selection of beans to be had nowadays

You'll be a beans connoisseur if it keeps going, quite a few things have gone on mine, the petrol version might be less trouble though.. Good price alright, better than I got..

reubenreuben

The pads may not have bedded in.

XLR 8

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You'll be a beans connoisseur if it keeps going, quite a few things have gone on mine, the petrol version might be less trouble though.. Good price alright, better than I got..

Let's just say I've bean there....

Independent1

Sounds like I have 'bean' lucky so

Thanks again for all the advice.