Rear ended and then hit car in front.

jamesf85

Hi all,

I was driving to work today and came to road works. Car in front was stopped and I stopped maybe a meter or so behind him. Then I get rear ended by car behind me which sends me flying forward and into the back of car in front. Damage to car in front is minimal...just edge of bumber. My car has a little in front but my rear is in a pretty bad way, exhaust down and dragging along but car is still operational. Car behind is in a very bad way, most likely written off.

What I want to know is am I liable for the car in front of me even though I was completely stopped? I'm wondering this as even though I have never had a claim my insurance is very high and I really don't want to have to involve my insurance.

Anyone know?

CJhaughey

jamesf85 wrote: »

Hi all,

I was driving to work today and came to road works. Car in front was stopped and I stopped maybe a meter or so behind him. Then I get rear ended by car behind me which sends me flying forward and into the back of car in front. Damage to car in front is minimal...just edge of bumber. My car has a little in front but my rear is in a pretty bad way, exhaust down and dragging along but car is still operational. Car behind is in a very bad way, most likely written off.

What I want to know is am I liable for the car in front of me even though I was completely stopped? I'm wondering this as even though I have never had a claim my insurance is very high and I really don't want to have to involve my insurance.

Anyone know?

It cascades back to the original car that caused it but the guy in front claims off you, and you claim off the car that crashed into you.

Donnelly117

CJhaughey wrote: »

It cascades back to the original car that caused it but the guy in front claims off you, and you claim off the car that crashed into you.

Does that effect the OPs no claims? Be kind of **** if it did...

jamesf85

Thanks for the response, I really appreciate it. Can I pay this myself or do I have to do it through my insurance? I'd prefer to pay myself than involve insurance at all.

goldenhoarde

You can I guess but remember the driver of the car in front may want to claim personal injuries.

Also the year/age of the car may determine whether you pay or not? a new bumper for a newish car could be very expensive.

In short yes if the other party agrees but the general advice is still to inform your insurance company if you do just in case they come back with a personal claim.

hidinginthebush

Exact same thing happend to my brother in law. He was responsible for the car in front in the eyes of the insurance companies. Nothing he could do about it and lost his no claims in the process.

He hand't his handbrake on at the time so their view was he wasn't in full control of the vehicle / should have had the brake applied while at a stop. So maybe have a look into that OP.

armaghlad

Hopefully the person in front is not a cnut about things. Try and get it all sorted without involving insurance, if the damage to your car and the car in front is minimal. Explain to the guy in front that you'll lose your no claims and hopefully he'll be sound about it.

Liam McPoyle

This is what's known as a concertina collision and the driver that hit you is at fault so it will go through his insurance.

For the sake of full disclosure you should ring your own insurance company and tell them what happened.

volchitsa

Donnelly117 wrote: »

Does that effect the OPs no claims? Be kind of **** if it did...

Unfortunately yes it usually does, afaiaa. You're meant to be in control of your car at all times, i.e. stopped in a controlled fashion and far enough from the car in front so this doesn't happen. Even though in reality its almost impossible to entirely prevent this sort of incident, that's the Highway Code/insurance company theory all the same. (Happened to a friend of mine in a multi-car pile up on the M25 in England some years back. No serious injuries luckily, but an insurance nightmare for her.)

jamesf85

hidinginthebush wrote: »

He hand't his handbrake on at the time so their view was he wasn't in full control of the vehicle / should have had the brake applied while at a stop. So maybe have a look into that OP.

This is what I was afraid of...my handbrake was up and I was at a complete stop. I'm under the impression that if you rear end someone then it is always your fault. Although I don't know how I could have avoided this.

A good friend of mine was in an accident a year ago where they rear ended someone. What amounted to no more than a scratch and not even a dent on the bumper ended up costing them their no claims and their insurance tripled. So I would like to keep this away from insurance if at all possible.

Tabnabs

I have direct experience of this. The guy who caused the accident is the one who's insurance company pays out to all involved. Best get all his details and inform your insurance company also.

armaghlad

If you're willing to take the risk avoid telling your insurance company! Car insurance is a racket and you'll be only putting yourself in the firing line for an increased premium as well as losing your ncb. If one of the other two wants to go through insurance then you're very unlucky.

volchitsa

The guy who caused the initial crash will pay the costs I agree, but can anyone with direct experience confirm that a car involved in the ensuing "chain" of accidents, like the OP, won't end up losing some of his no claims bonus?

I don't have direct experience, but my understanding from my friend's accident some years ago was that it did cost her something, and I seem to remember that it was about shared responsibility.

But as I say this is only from a rather vague memory and the rules may have changed since then anyway. It would be nice to know for sure.

jamesf85

armaghlad wrote: »

If you're willing to take the risk avoid telling your insurance company! Car insurance is a racket and you'll be only putting yourself in the firing line for an increased premium as well as losing your ncb. If one of the other two wants to go through insurance then you're very unlucky.

Is there any way that if the car behind goes through their insurance that I can still avoid mine?

As mentioned above I'm opening myself up to the possibility of losing my no claims bonus and also getting a higher premium.

armaghlad

jamesf85 wrote: »

Is there any way that if the car behind goes through their insurance that I can still avoid mine?

As mentioned above I'm opening myself up to the possibility of losing my no claims bonus and also getting a higher premium.

No, if they go through insurance then their company will contact yours. If he signals his intent to do so, you should tell your insurance company right away.

If all three of you agree to not to go through insurance, then don't mention it. I was involved in a fender bender (entirely my fault); I accepted responsibility and offered to pay cash for repairs which the other person accepted. She left her car in and I took her at her word on the cost and dropped 100 quid cash off at the mechanics.

kirving

You should inform your insurance company. You won't lose your no claims bonus as the car behind is at fault for the damage to all three cars.

Not being in full control of the car is rubbish. My car can be driven with the handbrake on, as can many cars, it's only to prevent the car from rolling away and cannot prevent your car from moving if it is hit hard enough.

Depending on how the insurance companies want to handle the claim however, it may be the case that the driver in car 1 claims off car 2's insurance, and car 2 claims off car 3 for the damage to both. This will be decided by the insurance companies depending on if one insurer covers 2 of the 3 cars maybe, or on how fast the claim will be sorted on all sides. Either way, inform your insurance company and let them handle it, it's what you pay them for.

KERSPLAT!

Business Cat wrote: »

This is what's known as a concertina collision and the driver that hit you is at fault so it will go through his insurance.

For the sake of full disclosure you should ring your own insurance company and tell them what happened.

Take this. Best advice given

savagethegoat

you should tell your Insurance Company right away and let them deal with it, it's why you have Insurance. Even if you pay it yourself, it can still come back to bite you as it is still a claim that will need declaring.

dodzy

jamesf85 wrote: »

This is what I was afraid of...my handbrake was up and I was at a complete stop. I'm under the impression that if you rear end someone then it is always your fault. Although I don't know how I could have avoided this.

Unavoidable in this situation. Same happened to me a few years ago. It's the car driver at the back who is liable for you and the person you hit. Your insurance will not be affected.

In my situation, I got contact details of other 2 parties and insurance details from rear offender. In fairness, her insurance company were onto me before I rang them. You'll be grand. Zero cost to you, apart from the inconvenience

jamesf85

Thank you all for the advice,

I spoke to the person who rear ended me just there. She told me to call her insurance company and gave me a reference no. I called and they told me to bring my car to their authorized garage for assessment and repair. They said she has taken full liability for the entire accident. They took all my details and my account of the accident but never asked for my insurance details. I told them I wanted to make this as cheap for her as possible but they told me taking it to their mechaic was the best route.

I've never been in an accident before but I would have assumed that it would have been cheaper for her if I had brought it to a local mechanic.

biko

For a complex case like this it's always best to go through the insurance companies rather than sorting things off the books.

Liam McPoyle

jamesf85 wrote: »

Thank you all for the advice,

I spoke to the person who rear ended me just there. She told me to call her insurance company and gave me a reference no. I called and they told me to bring my car to their authorized garage for assessment and repair. They said she has taken full liability for the entire accident. They took all my details and my account of the accident but never asked for my insurance details. I told them I wanted to make this as cheap for her as possible but they told me taking it to their mechaic was the best route.

I've never been in an accident before but I would have assumed that it would have been cheaper for her if I had brought it to a local mechanic.

Insurers have their own network of garages they use.

That way they garauntee that the work will be done to the correct standard and they aren't going to get rode by a mechanic / panel beater inflating the costs.

If you havnt rang your insurance company you should do so and give them the reference number the other person gave you.

emeldc

jamesf85 wrote: »

Thank you all for the advice,

I spoke to the person who rear ended me just there. She told me to call her insurance company and gave me a reference no. I called and they told me to bring my car to their authorized garage for assessment and repair. They said she has taken full liability for the entire accident. They took all my details and my account of the accident but never asked for my insurance details. I told them I wanted to make this as cheap for her as possible but they told me taking it to their mechaic was the best route.

I've never been in an accident before but I would have assumed that it would have been cheaper for her if I had brought it to a local mechanic.

Why are you trying to complicate this? Just let the insurance of the person behind deal with it. You did nothing wrong. You wont have to pay anything and it wont affect your bonus as you were not to blame. It might affect your bonus if liability is not sorted by the time of your renewal so don't screw around with it. You've nothing to gain.

jamesf85

Thanks again,

I wasn't trying to complicate it, it was a young driver that hit me and I can imagine she is already paying enough for insurance. I didn't want to take her to the cleaners.

My insurance has gone up and up despite never having a claim so I would have liked to have made sure as to keep it away from them.

Stephenc66

jamesf85 wrote: »

Thank you all for the advice,

I spoke to the person who rear ended me just there. She told me to call her insurance company and gave me a reference no. I called and they told me to bring my car to their authorized garage for assessment and repair. They said she has taken full liability for the entire accident. They took all my details and my account of the accident but never asked for my insurance details. I told them I wanted to make this as cheap for her as possible but they told me taking it to their mechaic was the best route.

I've never been in an accident before but I would have assumed that it would have been cheaper for her if I had brought it to a local mechanic.

Did they say how they would deal with the car that you were knocked into have you anymore to do with it?

emeldc

jamesf85 wrote: »

Thanks again,

I wasn't trying to complicate it, it was a young driver that hit me and I can imagine she is already paying enough for insurance. I didn't want to take her to the cleaners.

My insurance has gone up and up despite never having a claim so I would have liked to have made sure as to keep it away from them.

Fair enough, I see where you're coming from. With any luck the claim wont be too high and will only result in a loss of bonus for her. If she's a young driver she might not have much of a bonus to lose. Did you get an estimate on your own car yet.

jamesf85

It's all being taken care of through her insurance. I haven't heard anything from the person that I hit in to, although person dealing with the claim from her insurance said she's taking full liability for the accident. I left my car in to a garage and I haven't heard anything since, they said it could be up to 48 hours.

I have contacted my insurance to let them know I was involved in an accident but that I wasn't making a claim, they didn't ask for any details. Her insurance haven't asked for my insurance details either which I found strange, could it all be just dealt with through hers without ever involving mine?

emeldc

jamesf85 wrote: »

It's all being taken care of through her insurance. I haven't heard anything from the person that I hit in to, although person dealing with the claim from her insurance said she's taking full liability for the accident. I left my car in to a garage and I haven't heard anything since, they said it could be up to 48 hours.

I have contacted my insurance to let them know I was involved in an accident but that I wasn't making a claim, they didn't ask for any details. Her insurance haven't asked for my insurance details either which I found strange, could it all be just dealt with through hers without ever involving mine?

You'll get an accident report form to fill out from your own insurance co in the coming days. You can go into greater detail then . The insurance co's will then sort it out between them.
Were the Guards called by the way.

AlphaMull

Driver 1 here. Ain't boards a small world!

I got a call from Driver 3's insurance company within a half hour of the collision. She had already admitted liability.

So, they had no interest in my insurance details either. My claim is being handled directly by her insurance. I have no need to make a claim from the OP so his NCB should not be impacted at all.

All they wanted was for me to confirm was the OP stopped at the time of the collision. I confirmed he was so that should be that and they won't care about OPs insurance either.

That said...OP you need to be very careful on the road. I see you have a second thread where you did rear end another car and you came very close to it again today. The original post and comments about having handbrake on are disingenuous to say the least. You had to emergency stop to avoid hitting me and ended up at an angle across the road. But at the end of the day, you did stop in time. The following car was not so lucky.

The tax on your car is 16 months out of date, Your NCT is a year out of date and you had no insurance disk showing. If the Guards had been called at the very least you would have had your car impounded and would probably be looking at a court appearance not withstanding who was at fault for the collision.

Not trying to have a pop at you but you just about dodged a bullet today.

Jayop

:pac: This could be the best thread in boards history.

seamusk84

jamesf85 wrote: »

Hi all,

I was driving to work today and came to road works. Car in front was stopped and I stopped maybe a meter or so behind him. Then I get rear ended by car behind me which sends me flying forward and into the back of car in front. Damage to car in front is minimal...just edge of bumber. My car has a little in front but my rear is in a pretty bad way, exhaust down and dragging along but car is still operational. Car behind is in a very bad way, most likely written off.

What I want to know is am I liable for the car in front of me even though I was completely stopped? I'm wondering this as even though I have never had a claim my insurance is very high and I really don't want to have to involve my insurance.

Anyone know?

Happened to me last year mate. Exact same circumstance. As you were stationary you are not at fault at all. The car behind will have to cover both you and the car you were pushed into.

I can tell you this for a fact from experience.

emeldc

Jayop wrote: »

:pac: This could be the best thread in boards history.

It just became a bit more interesting anyway

Jmccoy1

seamusk84 wrote: »

Happened to me last year mate. Exact same circumstance. As you were stationary you are not at fault at all. The car behind will have to cover both you and the car you were pushed into.

I can tell you this for a fact from experience.

I can vouch for that, same experience in 2014. I was stationary on a motorbike, was hit from behind and drove into the car in front. My bike was wrote off, the car in front of me was wrote off and I suffered multiple injuries. The driver that hit me didn't own the car, however the actual owners insurance took the hit for the lot. My insurer set me up with a solicitor to take care of the lot, great service too I must add.

savagethegoat

driver 4 here, I was driving by but saw nothing. :-)

OP don't orget your car has been devalued, you should try and get some compensation for that

Jayop

savagethegoat wrote: »

driver 4 here, I was driving by but saw nothing.

Odon't orget your car has been devalued, you should try and get some compensation for that

How's the whiplash from rubber necking?? :P

jamesf85

AlphaMull wrote: »

Driver 1 here. Ain't boards a small world!

I got a call from Driver 3's insurance company within a half hour of the collision. She had already admitted liability.

So, they had no interest in my insurance details either. My claim is being handled directly by her insurance. I have no need to make a claim from the OP so his NCB should not be impacted at all.

All they wanted was for me to confirm was the OP stopped at the time of the collision. I confirmed he was so that should be that and they won't care about OPs insurance either.

That said...OP you need to be very careful on the road. I see you have a second thread where you did rear end another car and you came very close to it again today. The original post and comments about having handbrake on are disingenuous to say the least. You had to emergency stop to avoid hitting me and ended up at an angle across the road. But at the end of the day, you did stop in time. The following car was not so lucky.

The tax on your car is 16 months out of date, Your NCT is a year out of date and you had no insurance disk showing. If the Guards had been called at the very least you would have had your car impounded and would probably be looking at a court appearance not withstanding who was at fault for the collision.

Not trying to have a pop at you but you just about dodged a bullet today.

Wow, it truely is. Thanks for your response, much appreciated. It was a crazy enough spin to work I must say.

Yea I agree with you 100% on the above. The car hasn't been in use (brother moved away) and that's actually why they were out of date, not that the guards would have cared.

The other post you've seen was actually written by my friend, this is his profile, who wanted some advice and decided that boards.ie might just be the place.

Luckily this is my first accident and hopefully my last and also thankfully everyone was ok. Sorry if that start put a dampner on the rest of your day

stoplooklisten

jamesf85 wrote: »

........... that's actually why they were out of date, not that the guards would have cared. ......

I think you'll find they do, very much so car if "The tax on your car is 16 months out of date, Your NCT is a year out of date and you had no insurance disk showing." You are not responsible enough to be on the road if you can't get any of the basics sorted.

Jayop

stoplooklisten wrote: »

I think you'll find they do, very much so car if "The tax on your car is 16 months out of date, Your NCT is a year out of date and you had no insurance disk showing."

I think he meant that the Guards wouldn't have cared for his excuse/reason. Of course they would have cared about the disks being expired.

stoplooklisten

Jayop wrote: »

I think he meant that the Guards wouldn't have cared for his excuse/reason. Of course they would have cared about the disks being expired.

ah, ok got it

jamesf85

Jayop wrote: »

I think he meant that the Guards wouldn't have cared for his excuse/reason. Of course they would have cared about the disks being expired.

that's exactly what I meant, I was suppose to get it sorted last week so I don't really have any excuse.

dodzy

As I stated earlier, the driver (well their insurer) that caused the incident is liable for all damages in this case and the drivers of the other cars need to do nothing. Apart from driver of the disc-less vehicle, who obviously needs to decorate the windscreen.

You gotta love post #29 though! What's the bloody chance !!!!:D

No one hurt, everyone walks away , and that's the main thing.

Jayop

The assessor for their insurance will probably come out to look at your car and you could be in a spot of bother if you've no tax/nct. Someone with more info might be better equipped to confirm this but is there a chance they could refuse to pay because the car shouldn't have been on the road?

Stheno

jamesf85 wrote: »

that's exactly what I meant, I was suppose to get it sorted last week so I don't really have any excuse.

Do you actually have insurance at the moment?

jamesf85

Stheno wrote: »

Do you actually have insurance at the moment?

Yes I do...I got insured on the car in question at the end of last month. I haven't received my disc yet. As silly as it is to drive with no tax driving without insurance would be asking for a whole world of problems.

AlphaMull

jamesf85 wrote: »

Wow, it truely is. Thanks for your response, much appreciated. It was a crazy enough spin to work I must say.

Yea I agree with you 100% on the above. The car hasn't been in use (brother moved away) and that's actually why they were out of date, not that the guards would have cared.

The other post you've seen was actually written by my friend, this is his profile, who wanted some advice and decided that boards.ie might just be the place.

Luckily this is my first accident and hopefully my last and also thankfully everyone was ok. Sorry if that start put a dampner on the rest of your day

Exactly, everyone walked away. That's the main thing. The rest is why insurance is there.
Felt sorry for the poor kid that is liable (well her mothers insurance is anyway) she got an awful shock. Full airbag deployment in her car

AlphaMull

Jayop wrote: »

The assessor for their insurance will probably come out to look at your car and you could be in a spot of bother if you've no tax/nct. Someone with more info might be better equipped to confirm this but is there a chance they could refuse to pay because the car shouldn't have been on the road?

Will have no bearing on anything. They are there for insurance only. Everything else is up to the guards if they were involved. They weren't.

jamesf85

AlphaMull wrote: »

Exactly, everyone walked away. That's the main thing. The rest is why insurance is there.
Felt sorry for the poor kid that is liable (well her mothers insurance is anyway) she got an awful shock. Full airbag deployment in her car

She got an awful fright. But like you said thankfully everyone was ok and that was the main thing.

Liam McPoyle

Jayop wrote: »

The assessor for their insurance will probably come out to look at your car and you could be in a spot of bother if you've no tax/nct. Someone with more info might be better equipped to confirm this but is there a chance they could refuse to pay because the car shouldn't have been on the road?

The only time a claim could be declined for a non valid NCT would be if the driver at fault was claiming through their own insurance and the accident was directly caused because the car wasn't road worthy eg gammy brakes.

Even at that the third parties damage will always be covered.

As its not involving the middle cars insurance and they were completely not at fault then its a non issue.

Jayop

Cool, thanks for the replies.