John Grenham and the missing census forms

KildareFan

I've just read John Grenham's blog about missing Census forms on the NAI site....http://johngrenham.com/irishroots/?p=127

What a revelation. Not all census forms hit the online search, but you can find them if you know the general area where the ancestors lived by manipulating the address/URL. Each form has a unique URL so by changing the URL you can move to another form.

I had long wondered why my great grandfather's household form didn't show up in the search, even though I knew the area where they had lived since the household was listed in the House and Building Return form. I realised from that form that households 1-10 in his village did not appear in the search. However, I was able to find the household form for my great grandfather by manipulating the URL in the address bar using John Grenham's invaluable method.
" In your browser address-bar, you’ll see something like “census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002500860/”. Just add 1 to that number to go forward a frame and subtract 1 to go back."

John also lists major omissions from the online census - what a pity the Irish Times no longer publishes his articles, and that NAI didn't install a scroll feature on the census forms....

Hermy

It's a shame there isn't ongoing maintenance to improve these and other record collections - Tithes for instance.

Jellybaby1

A few years ago when I couldn't find a census form for one of my in-laws I just entered his first name for that area and went through them all until I eventually found him. They had misspelled his surname, I never would have found it otherwise.

Hermy

Another useful trick is to try the surname in the forename box and vice versa.

montgo

I can't find an entire townland but it is not listed on John Grenham's list. I have emailed NAI a couple of times asking if they hold a hard copy/microfiche of the returns for the missing townland but have never received a reply. Any other ideas?

Alan259

montgo wrote: »

I can't find an entire townland but it is not listed on John Grenham's list. I have emailed NAI a couple of times asking if they hold a hard copy/microfiche of the returns for the missing townland but have never received a reply. Any other ideas?

Is it the 1901 returns or the 1911 returns or both that are missing?

montgo

Just the 1911 Census is missing.

Alan259

montgo wrote: »

Just the 1911 Census is missing.

It's possible that the 1911 census returns for that townland might have gotten lost before they were microfilmed or they might have gotten damaged and thus illegible. Did you try going to any of the neighbouring townlands and try John Grenham's URL trick?

The images of the neighbouring townlands might give you what happened to your townland's returns. At the following link: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000807842/ it actually says that some forms are missing and I'v seen it for returns that were damaged by water, torn, etc. Hope this helps.

montgo

Yes I did try the Grenham system but no joy.

I just wish they would reply to my email enquiry. Thx

KildareFan

What's the name of the townland? Maybe we can play hide and seek.

shanew

might help with the searches ... basic navigator for the 1901 & 1911 census :

http://irelandgen.com/tools/census_nav.php?rid=000024780

(click reset to start at a new image)

montgo

Kildare, thanks but I've realised that I did ask about the townland before and Shanew condirmed that it wasn't available.

Shane, many thanks for the link, very handy!

bartleby101

Hi folks,
The original lInk to John Grenham's page posted above seem to be broken. Does he publish a list of missing Townlands from 1911 Census? This would be most interesting.

Cheers,
Bart

Alan259

bartleby101 wrote: »

Hi folks,
The original lInk to John Grenham's page posted above seem to be broken. Does he publish a list of missing Townlands from 1911 Census? This would be most interesting.

Cheers,
Bart

Hi Bart,

Does this link work for you? http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/irishroots/2016/03/02/the-strange-afterlife-of-the-census-microfilms/

bartleby101

Spot on Alan, many thanks,
Intriguing find by Mr. Grenham.
Bart

Alan259

bartleby101 wrote: »

Spot on Alan, many thanks,
Intriguing find by Mr. Grenham.
Bart

Your welcome. Hopefully, sometime over the next few years they will be transcribed and searchable like the rest of the census returns.

pinkypinky

Can anyone please help me to find Monalahy and Newcastle in Co. Cork on the 1901 census?

They're both in the Greenfort DED for 1911 but neither is there for 1901. Monalahy is also spelled with 2 ees at the end.
I can't find people I can place in Monalahy in 1911 on 1901 elsewhere.
Wondering if it's never been microfilmed and hence not digitised?

Here's the 1901 Greenfort DED.

tabbey

pinkypinky wrote: »

Can anyone please help me to find Monalahy and Newcastle in Co. Cork on the 1901 census?

They're both in the Greenfort DED for 1911 but neither is there for 1901. Monalahy is also spelled with 2 ees at the end.
I can't find people I can place in Monalahy in 1911 on 1901 elsewhere.
Wondering if it's never been microfilmed and hence not digitised?

Here's the 1901 Greenfort DED.

Just ask in the NAI for the microfilm, if it is not on it, they will let you have the actual paper forms.

pinkypinky

Not so easy to achieve when one works full-time!

pinkypinky

Note to follow up: those townlands are missing on the online 1901 census but available on microfilm. They're sending me a copy for the 2 families I'm researching.

Further note: they clarified that the paper returns have been taken off site and are not accessible.

Hermy

pinkypinky wrote: »

Further note: they clarified that the paper returns have been taken off site and are not accessible.

Was that recent?

I was to view some paper originals but a family bereavement meant I never went back to view what I'd ordered.

pinkypinky

They didn't say since when but I suspect it is.