New plans for DU

strassenwo!f

I feel it would definitely be worth using this 'down time', when the various projects like the metro and interconnector have been scrapped, and when there is almost no money, to look at whether those plans were the right ones for the city.

We didn't, for example, see any plans for a major underground interchange at St. Stephen's Green until the Green line LUAS was built and was terminated there (because, at the time, it was considered by the Minister (Mary O'Rourke) to be too difficult to build it through the city - even though that is now happening). The earlier plans for Dublin's underground were for an interchange much closer to the river.

The St. Stephen's Green idea was totally new. And given that the proposed station would be right beside twenty-two (22) acres of trees and parkland, with no possibility of that being developed into an area with lots of potential commuters, the choice of this as an interchange location was curious.

I can't readily remember seeing anything in the mainstream Irish newspapers over the last two to three years related to either the DART Underground project or the Metro North project. That is a very long time for projects which, on their own, would each be comfortably the largest infrastructure investment Ireland has ever made.

Clearly the authorities haven't got it quite right with these projects. They both need a bit of tweaking, so that they are ready to be implemented when the country eventually has the cash.

D.L.R.

strassenwo!f

DLR, I think you're not entirely grasping what I'm saying.

Successive Irish Governments had the opportunity, and the money, to build an interchange between the metro and the interconnector beside the big 22-acre St. Stephen's Green park. No commuters there.

Even though the earlier plans for an interchange had been in a much more central, busier area, much closer to the river.

The last Irish Government had the option to build an underground line linking Heuston and the Northern line, via St. Stephen's Green. They had planning permission.

But they let that planning permission lapse.

I wonder why.


You're showing pictures of children yawning/crying in your post. What are you trying to express?

I think it could be useful for you, DLR, to look at what broadly similar cities in Europe have done to improve their public transport over the years.

Frankfurt was one I was in last week for a few hours. Their highest capacity line goes under the main retail street, connecting all big lines with the main train station and with the main station in the south of the city. And connecting with all the U-Bahn lines in the city.

Franfurt's public transport system is effectively a copy of Munich's. Both of them involve the highest capacity rail line going underground through the very centre of the city, with U-Bahn lines meeting them at strategic points. Much as Dublin's Dart Underground and Metro could do.

Except that Dublin's Dart Underground plans involve a circuitous route around the city, costing more money, an interchange beside a 22 acre park, in an area which is not as busy as the centre, etc.

When you compare it with the cities Dublin is competing with, it is poor.

Dublin has **** public transport, by pretty much any measure, and if people are trying to help you to improve it, they may not have the right solution but they may possibly be worth listening to. It is pretty clear that if the erstwhile infrastructure 'solutions' go a number of years without even being mentioned in the mainstream media then they are not going to happen in their original form, if at all.

It is also unclear why the powers that be on this board keep splitting this view onto separate threads, leaving the 'DART Underground' thread untainted (except for the last several pages of off-topic rambling). The DART Underground is a project intended to link up the city's main railway lines and increase the overall capacity of those, going through areas which are currently unconnected to those rail lines. It is pretty obvious that the earlier plan is not going to happen, but these views are related to that overall objective and should be kept together with the earlier discussion.

D Trent

D.L.R. wrote: »

This x1000

strassenwo!f

Keep posting that child's picture lads, and keep thanking whoever posted it.

I think it is unlikely to change the overall situation: the plan for a line via St. Stephen's Green was allowed to lapse, pretty unceremoniously; and when the LUAS cross-city opens there is not going to be a rush to spend extra money building a big loop via St. Stephen's Green to connect with the LUAS, when this connection can be made via a more direct route, if at all;

There will certainly be a redesign of this project, and I'd imagine that St. Stephen's Green is not going to feature strongly.

strassenwo!f

I think it is easy to understand why it made sense in Munich, as the main station and the Ostbanhof both had trains going to different destination, and there was pretty much a direct line, undegrround, between them,. It was sensible to connect those two stations via a direct, underground route.

Frankfurt, which eventually effectively copied what Munich had done, needed lines to cities like Offenbach and Hanau, which provided many of the city's workers, and its' looping S-Bahn route reflects that.

As with Munich, Frankfurt has a very fine public transport system

Both of those cities, Munich and Frankfurt, should, I believe, be studied extensively before Dublin embarks on its own underground programme.

strassenwo!f

One (Munich) is bigger than Dublin, the other (Frankfurt) is smaller but has a higher daytime population than Dublin, with considerable influx from outlying suburbs, like Offenbach and Hanau.

A bit bigger, or a bit smaller, neither of those cities are in any way incomparable to Dublin.

Studying what they have done in those cities, and maybe eventually copying it, might be the way forward for Dublin. (Frankfurt effectively copied its' underground public transport network from Munich).

Sam Russell

Mod: @ Strassenwolf

Over three hours today you have made three substantial contributions to this thread, and you are the only one to make a contribution (in text) to this thread. I think you are talking to yourself.

I am closing this thread.