Engine Replacement

Maclock

Hi all.
Sorry if any of this comment sounds stupid but I don't know anything about car engines.
The timing belt snapped on our 2010 Ford Smax last Friday. It's done 67000 miles. Apparently the belt snapping has done serious damage to the engine and we've been given a price of €5734 to get it repaired. I spoke to the mechanic and he said that they would have to replace parts of the engine.
What I wanted to ask is if it's possible buy a 2nd hand engine of the same spec and get a mechanic to fit it? Would it work out around the same cost or much cheaper or if it's even worth thinking about? I'd really appreciate any advice because I honestly don't know where I'm going to get that kind of money.

biko

Not DIY effort, moved away from DIY forum.

When the timing belt snaps the pistons and the valves inside the cylinders can touch (this is called an interference engine).

The first thing you need to find out is if your engine is interference or not.
Secondly, just because belt snapped it doesn't mean the piston and valves actually touched and bent. Putting an old belt or and running engine will check this.

Third, yes you can buy another engine and have it replaced by a mechanic. Get quotes from a few local shops.

jca

If it's an smax it's probably a diesel, there's no point in wasting time trying to revive this engine it's a gonner. Try and source a used engine to replace your own. The amount of damage to a diesel when the belt breaks is colossal and even after being repaired the engine is never the same again.

martinr5232

jca wrote:

If it's an smax it's probably a diesel, there's no point in wasting time trying to revive this engine it's a gonner. Try and source a used engine to replace your own. The amount of damage to a diesel when the belt breaks is colossal and even after being repaired the engine is never the same again.

Its not a gonner it can be repaired for a lot less than was quoted presuming its the 1.8 lynx engine it may or may not require new pistons and replace bent valves in the cylinder head.

As this is a common problem with this engine in the last few years good second hand ones are hard to source and will still require all belts to be changed.

Its an expensive job very labour intensive but can be done a lot cheaper i presume that quote is a main dealer quote.

Maclock

Thanks for the replies so far.
It's a 1.8 diesel.
The quote I got is from a local mechanic but I know he was getting the parts from a main dealer. At least I know now that it's possible to fit a 2nd hand engine, providing I can get one.
I'm not too keen about getting it repaired to be honest.

samih

The timing belt service intervals of these engines is sure higher than that? Shouldn't Ford contribute if the belt fails before that stated interval?

Edit: According to this page it's 120 months and 125k miles:

http://www.mytimingbelt.com/Results.aspx?ModelId=411

martinr5232

Maclock wrote:

Thanks for the replies so far. It's a 1.8 diesel. The quote I got is from a local mechanic but I know he was getting the parts from a main dealer. At least I know now that it's possible to fit a 2nd hand engine, providing I can get one. I'm not too keen about getting it repaired to be honest.

There is nothing wrong with repairing them ive done a few and never had a problem with any of them.

bazz26

Also try asking Ford for goodwill towards the cost of repairs. With that low mileage they may contribute towards some of the costs. A service history with a Ford dealer would strengthen your case for goodwill.

martinr5232

bazz26 wrote:

Also try asking Ford for goodwill towards the cost of repairs. With that low mileage they may contribute towards some of the costs. A service history with a Ford dealer would strengthen your case for goodwill.

It would need to be fairly comprehensive for ford to contribute.

Ogogo

OP a mechanic who is familiar with these could probably confirm but IMO this is probably the same engine fitted to the Mondeo, Focus of similar vintage. Try salvage yards or a search on http://www.partfinder.ie/ I dont know what they might cost here but second hand engines on ebay seem to range from £500 up to £1200 - for example http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-focus-mondeo-s-max-c-max-galaxy-connect-1-8-tdci-KKDA-engine-89000-/322005561426?hash=item4af906f052:g:jPQAAOSw~OVWvKe9

You are possibly taking a bit more of a risk with a second hand engine but compared to €5000+ it might be worth considering.

CJhaughey

If you do get a secondhand engine, make sure the belts are changed before it goes in to the car to avoid a repeat of the same problem.

Maclock

The owner of the place we bought the car from is contacting Ford for me. I know him well so I have no doubt that he'll so his best to try and get Ford to do something to help us out. I'd say myself that there's no hope of Ford doing anything, hence me asking for advice.

Maclock

I've looked online for 2nd hand engines but the 1.8s are very scarce.
There's lots of 2 litre.
Is it possible for a 2 litre to be fitted in place of the 1.8? I'm sure the insurance and tax would be effected but if it's possible then it gives me another alternative.

CJhaughey

Maclock wrote: »

I've looked online for 2nd hand engines but the 1.8s are very scarce.
There's lots of 2 litre.
Is it possible for a 2 litre to be fitted in place of the 1.8? I'm sure the insurance and tax would be effected but if it's possible then it gives me another alternative.

No Completely different engine to the 1.8 Lynx
the 2.0 is a PSA engine and the 1.8 is a Ford

Ogogo

Frank - try these links

https://www.donedeal.ie/carparts-for-sale/ford-1-8-tdci-engine/10542871
https://www.donedeal.ie/carparts-for-sale/2009-ford-1-8-tdci-engine/11527426
https://www.donedeal.ie/carparts-for-sale/1-8-tdci-fully-rebuilded-engine-for-sale/10550327
https://www.donedeal.ie/carparts-for-sale/2010-ford-mondeo-1-8-tdci-engine/11650380
https://www.donedeal.ie/carparts-for-sale/ford-1-8-tdci-engines-12-month-warranty/10399642
http://www.adverts.ie/engine-parts/1-8tdci-ford-engine/8630456

I am not terribly well up on these (I think they are the same engine)

@CJHaughey seems to know his way around them, CJ can you offer your thoughts on this - also I cant but that there are a share of these knocking around in various salvage yards - worth getting on the phone?

If those engines in the links above are the same its probably not going to cost an arm and a leg to get one of them fitted.

Maclock

Ogogo wrote: »

Frank - try these links

https://www.donedeal.ie/carparts-for-sale/ford-1-8-tdci-engine/10542871
https://www.donedeal.ie/carparts-for-sale/2009-ford-1-8-tdci-engine/11527426
https://www.donedeal.ie/carparts-for-sale/1-8-tdci-fully-rebuilded-engine-for-sale/10550327
https://www.donedeal.ie/carparts-for-sale/2010-ford-mondeo-1-8-tdci-engine/11650380
https://www.donedeal.ie/carparts-for-sale/ford-1-8-tdci-engines-12-month-warranty/10399642
http://www.adverts.ie/engine-parts/1-8tdci-ford-engine/8630456

Thanks for the links. It didn't even dawn on me to check Donedeal.

CJhaughey

Some of those look pretty OK to me, converted to chain and ready to go.
for a 1000 or so +fitting it would definately be a better way out than 5k of a job for rebuilding.
I'd say allow another few hundred for fitting and a new clutch/DMF while its out and you'd be good.

Maclock

I'd say allow another few hundred for fitting and a new clutch/DMF while its out and you'd be good.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for all the questions but I don't have a clue about cars, as I've said.
Why would we new a clutch and do I try and get one of those on Donedeal as well?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Maclock

Thanks for all the replies and advice. I really appreciate it.

CJhaughey

Price a clutch and slave cylinder from Ford, they are not that expensive for the genuine parts compared with spurious from my experience.
As said do the whole lot while its out and can be done easily, the clutch would have probably been due replacement anyway in the near future and doing it now won't add any extra labour to the job, just parts prices as it has to be removed when the engine is removed anyway.

Ogogo

Did you make progress with this?

Maclock

Ogogo wrote: »

Did you make progress with this?

I've arranged to buy a reconditioned engine for €1250. It's a 8 hour round trip to collect it as I have to drop off the existing engine when I pick the replacement.
The mechanic who I took the car to initially, wanted €1250 + vat to swap out the engines which I thought was a bit steep.
I've managed to get someone who will take out the damaged engine and will refit the replacement, the day after I collect it. He's charging €500 - €550.
I've talked to a few people who've had work done by him and they all rate his work very highly.
It'll be next week for him to remove the engine as he's so busy but I'm probably very lucky that he's even agreed to do the job.
I've gotten prices for a new clutch from a guy i know who works im the parts dept in a Ford dealership. There's a few different parts and they come to about €700. Apparently, ford won't warranty the new clutch unless it's fitted with new nuts and bolts that have been bought from them. That's what the guy in the parts department told me.

Ogogo

Very good. Hopefully you will be as good as new again after this.

Idbatterim

I've gotten prices for a new clutch from a guy i know who works im the parts dept in a Ford dealership. There's a few different parts and they come to about €700. Apparently, ford won't warranty the new clutch unless it's fitted with new nuts and bolts that have been bought from them. That's what the guy in the parts department told me.

how much does an independent want to do the clutch? How long is the warranty on the clutch for?!

Maclock

Ogogo wrote: »

Very good. Hopefully you will be as good as new again after this.

I'm praying that there won't be a 3rd thing because the front passenger side wishbone had to be replaced 2 months ago as the car slid on some ice and smacked into a step outside our house. I said that i know nothing about cars and i really don't but i actually replaced the wishbone myself after my panel beater dad told me "sure you can easily replace that yourself". He neglected to say how difficult it is to remove a wishbone that's bent to an almost 90 degree angle. Anyway, after 5 hours and a lot of f-ing and blinding, with my dads name in between, i got it sorted but swore never to try and repair something major on a car again.

Can anyone PLEASE verify that the saying of, THINGS COME IN 3s, is a load of rubbish??????

Maclock

Idbatterim wrote: »

how much does an independent want to do the clutch? How long is the warranty on the clutch for?!

I haven't asked Ford yet about the warranty on the clutch to be honest with you. I also haven't asked the mechanic about the cost of replacing it because i assumed he'll need to have a look at the existing clutch and that won't be till Wednesday, when i get it towed in to his garage.

martinr5232

Wont cost any extra he has to fit it as part of the swap anyway.

snaps

Don't forget Timing belt and water pump (If it hasn’t already been done to the recon engine)?!