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Court summons for motor tax

  • 29-02-2016 3:43pm
    #1
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    someone may be able to help me with his.

    A few months back I received a summons for court in Limerick for a car which I was fixing up, but in portloaise.

    the car was an old one of mine and I had it dropped up to Portloiase as the engine was not in it. It was parked on my footpath outside my house, so got a non tax offence.

    The house the fine and the summons were sent to was my now deceased fathers house, I only got a call from the tenants to say this had come in.

    I rang the court in Limerick to confirm the date of the summons and they cant find a record of it. Like the found my file for a 2009 summons at the same address ( it was ruled out as it was a car which i sold) and were able to confirm my name, age and DOB.

    What do I do now, the guards station In portloaise said once a summons is issued it is out of their hands and do not have the records for Limerick?


Comments

  • #2
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    If the car was parked in portlaoise when you got done then you wouldn't be going to Limerick court.


  • #3
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    If the car was parked in portlaoise when you got done then you wouldn't be going to Limerick court.

    This is what i was told as it had been sent to a limerick house and the car was registered in Limerick.


  • #4
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    allibastor wrote: »
    This is what i was told as it had been sent to a limerick house and the car was registered in Limerick.

    The summons would be sent to Limerick to be served on you if that's where you were living but it should still be held in the local court to where the offence was committed.


  • #5
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    The summons would be sent to Limerick to be served on you if that's where you were living but it should still be held in the local court to where the offence was committed.

    I rang both the guards in Limerick and Portloaise. They say there is no record of a court case.

    I spoke with a guard in Portloaise who said unless the summons was given to me personally it wont have been called to court?

    I would imagine a guard station would be able to call this up, they called up any other incidents going back 10 years, so I would imagine they should see that I am due in court also? would I be wrong on this.


  • #6
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Yes and no. A summons for car tax is issued following the non payment of an FCPS. Due to the antiquated nature of PULSE, when a summons like this is issued it creates a whole new person on the system, it doesn't add it to your existing record. When creating this person it uses the registration details of the car unless the Garda has ascertained the owners details before issuing the fine. The record will be there, it will just be hard to find. If you have an actual summons then the case will very likely be going ahead. Quoting the summons number is the best way for the Garda to find the summons.


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  • #7
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Yes and no. A summons for car tax is issued following the non payment of an FCPS. Due to the antiquated nature of PULSE, when a summons like this is issued it creates a whole new person on the system, it doesn't add it to your existing record. When creating this person it uses the registration details of the car unless the Garda has ascertained the owners details before issuing the fine. The record will be there, it will just be hard to find. If you have an actual summons then the case will very likely be going ahead. Quoting the summons number is the best way for the Garda to find the summons.

    Hi,

    Thing is the summons wasnt given to me, it was given to my mother at the rental house.
    Both Guards stations were able to give me other details of things such as request to give information and one time I sold a car and the new owner an hour later went 140 on the motor way!
    The used my name and DOB to check this, but both have said there is no record of this court case.

    Not sure what to do, I have rang both courts also and again they have no record of the summons.

    Am I right in the summons has to be given to me personally for it to be in effect?


  • #8
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    allibastor wrote: »
    Hi,

    Thing is the summons wasnt given to me, it was given to my mother at the rental house.
    Both Guards stations were able to give me other details of things such as request to give information and one time I sold a car and the new owner an hour later went 140 on the motor way!
    The used my name and DOB to check this, but both have said there is no record of this court case.

    Not sure what to do, I have rang both courts also and again they have no record of the summons.

    Am I right in the summons has to be given to me personally for it to be in effect?

    No. It can be served on a family member on your last known place of residence. Was the car registered to your mams address?

    I already told you what you can do. Call the Gardaí and quote the summons number and they can search the records using that.


  • #9
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    No. It can be served on a family member on your last known place of residence. Was the car registered to your mams address?

    I already told you what you can do. Call the Gardaí and quote the summons number and they can search the records using that.

    Hi thanks, for this.

    Thing is the paper cannot be found anywhere at all.

    I have tried ringing both sets of guarda stations, and the court houses and no-one can find a record of me having a date for court. They can tell me anything else but not this.

    I am just panicked as I dont want to not turn up but cant find any information on it.


  • #10
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    Just an update.

    It was found, they searched by Guarda name and it was found. For Thursday.

    What is the usual punishment for this?


  • #11
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    The summons would be sent to Limerick to be served on you if that's where you were living but it should still be held in the local court to where the offence was committed.

    Are you sure?
    lowry vs dpp&anor, para 118 wrote:

    This is exemplified by the fact that had the applicant been tried summarily, his trial could have taken place at the option of the prosecution either where the offence was committed, where he resides or where he was arrested.


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  • #12
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Are you sure?

    Yes. What can happen legally and what PULSE is capable of are two different things.


  • #13
    coylemj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    allibastor wrote: »
    Just an update.

    It was found, they searched by Guarda name and it was found. For Thursday.

    What is the usual punishment for this?

    Depends on the judge but typically the judge will ask the Garda if arrears have been paid, that is the best route to a lenient sentence.

    It's not clear from your posts if you sold the car on or intended to fix it up and hang on to it. If there was no engine in the car, that could be your escape route because for certain situations the vehicle is not considered a mechanically propelled vehicle if a major component such as the engine has been removed but I think that's the Road Traffic Act whereas non-display of a tax disc and non-payment of the licence are offences under different legislation, one of them being the Finance Act 1976. Maybe others could comment on this.


  • #14
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,580 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    allibastor wrote: »
    The house the fine and the summons were sent to was my now deceased fathers house, I only got a call from the tenants to say this had come in.
    allibastor wrote: »
    Thing is the summons wasnt given to me, it was given to my mother at the rental house.

    Where is the summons now? Get it and read it.


  • #15
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    Victor wrote: »
    Where is the summons now? Get it and read it.

    Hi,

    dont have the fines, or the summons. There were all sent to a house that is no longer being lived in by a member of my family.

    It was just pure dumb luck that my mom was at the house for the summons but she left it there with the tennants and they moved on since.

    As others said, can I pay the fine, even thought court is tomorrow, and without the fine itself?


  • #16
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,580 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    So the tenants / your mother opened your post and checked the date, but didn't give you the summons?

    Have your mother pay the fine. :)


  • #17
    irishgrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    I wonder can it still legally be consider a motor car if there was no engine in it?


  • #18
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,764 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    allibastor wrote: »
    Hi,

    dont have the fines, or the summons. There were all sent to a house that is no longer being lived in by a member of my family.

    It was just pure dumb luck that my mom was at the house for the summons but she left it there with the tennants and they moved on since.

    As others said, can I pay the fine, even thought court is tomorrow, and without the fine itself?

    Update your car ownership details with your correct address before you get in more trouble.


  • #19
    coylemj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    allibastor wrote: »
    As others said, can I pay the fine, even thought court is tomorrow, and without the fine itself?

    If there is a conviction and fine, the court will write to the same address where the summons was served. As you clearly don't live there any more, you could simply ignore it or you could wait a few days, phone the court office with the summons number, ask if there was a fine and then post them a cheque.


  • #20
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    Hi all,

    Thanks for the posts.

    No, the fines were sent to the house, but never forwarded. Tennants were non-national family and not the best at keeping things like that coming.

    My mom was actually in the house with a plumber at the time she got the summons on my behalf. She has not been in great health of late so I cant really blame her for anything along that line.

    I am not sure what kind of conviction you can get for not taxing a car, I could be wrong on this.
    I didn't know once there was a summons I could pay the fine, but the guards were not able to find me in court system database or find my ticket, so I am not sure if i can do this now?


  • #21
    Kepler 186f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭Kepler 186f


    allibastor wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Thanks for the posts.

    No, the fines were sent to the house, but never forwarded. Tennants were non-national family and not the best at keeping things like that coming.

    My mom was actually in the house with a plumber at the time she got the summons on my behalf. She has not been in great health of late so I cant really blame her for anything along that line.

    I am not sure what kind of conviction you can get for not taxing a car, I could be wrong on this.
    I didn't know once there was a summons I could pay the fine, but the guards were not able to find me in court or find my ticket, so I am not sure if i can do this now?

    Hi there, as you said your mother was there when the summons arrived, she must have accepted it.
    You cannot pay the original fine (ticket) once the time elapsed and a summons generated.
    Find out the court date which should be the court which covers where the alleged offence occurred. It's in your best interest to attend court and explain your circumstances because if you don't attend you can be convicted in your absence and generally fined I higher amount than otherwise. Eg original ticket around 60 (don't quote me on this), convicted in your absence depending on the judge could be roughly a 200 fine


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  • #22
    roverrules
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 331 ✭✭roverrules


    allibastor wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Thanks for the posts.

    No, the fines were sent to the house, but never forwarded. Tennants were non-national family and not the best at keeping things like that coming.

    My mom was actually in the house with a plumber at the time she got the summons on my behalf. She has not been in great health of late so I cant really blame her for anything along that line.

    I am not sure what kind of conviction you can get for not taxing a car, I could be wrong on this.
    I didn't know once there was a summons I could pay the fine, but the guards were not able to find me in court or find my ticket, so I am not sure if i can do this now?


    Just reading the last sentence, has this been to court before? If so is there not the possibility of a bench warrant being issued?


  • #23
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    Kepler 186f wrote: »
    Hi there, as you said your mother was there when the summons arrived, she must have accepted it.
    You cannot pay the original fine (ticket) once the time elapsed and a summons generated.
    Find out the court date which should be the court which covers where the alleged offence occurred. It's in your best interest to attend court and explain your circumstances because if you don't attend you can be convicted in your absence and generally fined I higher amount than otherwise. Eg original ticket around 60 (don't quote me on this), convicted in your absence depending on the judge could be roughly a 200 fine

    Hi,
    thanks. As I said in posts previous I found the court date and all that, its tomorrow and I will be going. I have asked to get an end of life cert for my car from the scrap yard it now lives in, but wont have this for tomorrow.

    The only thing I can really say is that I didn't get any receipt of the fine or summons, the guards in Limerick were able to say it was signed off from my mother and confirmed the fines went to the old address.

    I am hopeful I just get a fine and that will be that. no issue with that


  • #24
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    roverrules wrote: »
    Just reading the last sentence, has this been to court before? If so is there not the possibility of a bench warrant being issued?

    Hi,

    no never been up. I wrote it poorly, I corrected it now. I meant the court system couldn't find my date, based on my name, DOB or car reg. The date was found by looking at the cases of the guard who issued the summons, which was found by speaking with the guards in Henry street in limerick.


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