Photographer - What's included?

Jude13

We are at the stage where we need to book our photographer. I am just looking for any insight into pitfalls in relation as to what is included.

In my naivety I believed that after paying the photographer I would own the pics and would be able to send them to aunts and uncles where ever the live. Just like if I commissioned and artist to do a painting I would own it.

Anyway, any help would be great. thanks.

whiskeyman

Jude13 wrote: »

In my naivety I believed that after paying the photographer I would own the pics and would be able to send them to aunts and uncles where ever the live. Just like if I commissioned and artist to do a painting I would own it.

This can be the case if you specify it.
Be sure to ensure no watermarks on also.

As anything, be sure to discuss up front and check your contract before you sign it.

Pistachios & cream

Jude13 wrote: »

In my naivety I believed that after paying the photographer I would own the pics and would be able to send them to aunts and uncles where ever the live. Just like if I commissioned and artist to do a painting I would own it.

Irish copyright law means that even if you pay the photographer the photographer still owns the rights to the photos and you may not be able to send photos to people and print as you like.

It's important your contract/package deals with this. Most photographers offer a digital images package which gives you rights to high quality unwatermarked images. You still do not own the copyright unless you specify and pay for it.

If you expect to get both an album and the digital images make sure it is specified in the contract. Most photographers provide a wedding album but this often does not include the digital images.

I went for digital images only and after the wedding decided to get the photographer to do the album, there was no difference in price then if i had paid in advance as part of my package.

baby and crumble

Most of the photographers we're looking at keep the copyright but in reality all that means is that we can't sell them for profit or use them to make money. Which is fair enough really. It's not like they're going to go pedalling them around the place.

DavyD_83

Jude13 wrote: »

We are at the stage where we need to book our photographer. I am just looking for any insight into pitfalls in relation as to what is included.

In my naivety I believed that after paying the photographer I would own the pics and would be able to send them to aunts and uncles where ever the live. Just like if I commissioned and artist to do a painting I would own it.

Anyway, any help would be great. thanks.

All depends on the photographer and how they deal with it.
In our case, we have full rights to do whatever we want with the resulting photos (May not be allowed to sell, but had never even thought to check that). Photographer also maintains some rights to be allowed to use the pictures in promotional materials etc I believe.

Check websites, ask questions, read any contract closely before signing.

intheclouds

ahayes84 wrote: »

If you expect to get both an album and the digital images make sure it is specified in the contract. Most photographers provide a wedding album but this often does not include the digital images.

+1

Its an absolute nonsense in this day and age that you would not be provided with the digital images by default, but you must be clear that you want them or you may not get them.

baby and crumble

intheclouds wrote: »

+1

Its an absolute nonsense in this day and age that you would not be provided with the digital images by default, but you must be clear that you want them or you may not get them.

99% of photographers we've looked at (granted were looking at more contemporary photographer rather than traditional) automatically have a USB drive included and books are actually optional extras in lots of cases. But it's definitely something to check.

AndersLimpar

When you've found a photographer you like then email them and tell them what you would like. They will then provide a package for you. If you want files then tell them. If you want an album then mention that too.

We provide hi res files as standard with all packages but some don't although to be honest it would be more often than not that they would be provided. However if you ask them then they will more than likely provide them for you at an additional cost.

Again, not all photographers provide albums so if you would like one make sure to enquire if they do supply them.

Jude13

Cheers for the replies. I will see what they get back to me with.

Gatica

As mentioned the photographer generally retains copyright and can use your photos for their own promotional material and website. I think I hadn't thought of that before our wedding myself. I don't mind it now so much but at the time I do remember being a little disappointed that my face could be plastered on the internet - however, the photographers are usually careful to select flattering pictures, which of course also showcases their work.

Think about what you want from your package. Rights to reproduce the pictures on print and digital form (presumably non-profit), so you can share with your family and print them for your walls. Maybe the resolution, like HD. How many? Some photographers will supply around 200 for the day, others may do more or less. Do you want them to retouch up the photos for you? do colour balance and that sort of thing. I would imagine considering it's their work, they'd want to do this anyway. How much credit do they need if you share photos with, say, your seamstress, cake or floral supplier? We got colour and B&W photos in high res and web-friendly size.

Jude13

^^ I don't want to retain the rights to the picture I have paid to be taken particularly. I just want to pay the photographer for his service and the use of his equipment.

If he takes 100 or 600 pics of us and we paid him to do it then I don't see why they should own them not us.

If you paid someone to film a feature movie and they gave you a few copies and said that you could make more, that would be mental. You pay for their service to produce your product.

I guess I will put it in the terms, I was just wondering is this a default position and a deal breaker. If so they either loose out on allot of business or no one notices till after the fact and get burnt.

Bacchus

Jude13 wrote: »

^^ I don't want to retain the rights to the picture I have paid to be taken particularly. I just want to pay the photographer for his service and the use of his equipment.

If he takes 100 or 600 pics of us and we paid him to do it then I don't see why they should own them not us.

If you paid someone to film a feature movie and they gave you a few copies and said that you could make more, that would be mental. You pay for their service to produce your product.

I guess I will put it in the terms, I was just wondering is this a default position and a deal breaker. If so they either loose out on allot of business or no one notices till after the fact and get burnt.

You do own the copies of the photos though. You just don't own the copyright which stays with the photographer. To stick with the movie line of comparison (your feature film comparison is too complex when you consider all the parties involved in that process)... do you own the copyright to a movie when you buy a DVD? That is essentially what is happening with wedding photos. You are paying for the product (the photos), not the copyright. While noone's going to chase you for giving your family/friends copies of the photos, the copyright is there to protect the rights of the photographer that so you don't try to sell his/her work. You'd have specifically put it in the contract that you want to include the transfer of copyright.

DavyD_83

I think it's more in line with commissioning an artist.
In the old days, you were really commissioning the photographer to create your album and whatever agreed number of prints; they would I assume have always held the negatives, and you would need to go back to them for any additional prints.

In digital age, some photographers have stuck with this model, but some have a more open approach to it.
With digital files, and easy printing, it's easier to make the images accessible and shareable if this is what is agreed, but it still may not be reasonable to just assume this is part of the deal.

You can compare it to any other business transaction; what it will actually boil down to is what is agreed in the contract you sign with the photographer

Bacchus

DavyD_83 wrote: »

I think it's more in line with commissioning an artist.

Just on that, because I agree it is like commissioning an artist. The copyright of the art is not transferred to the buyer. No way would the buyer be allowed to reproduce prints of the artists work and sell them. This is a perfect example of why copyright remains with the creator (in this discussion, that is the photographer).

There is no grey area here. Very simply, unless explicitly stated in the contract, the photographer retains the copyright and that (IMO) is perfectly reasonable. It protects their work and their source of income.

Really, while it is an interesting topic, I don't get the concern it seems to be generating. You, the happy couple, shouldn't even have copyright on your radar. Only some curmudgeon of a photographer is going to come after you with copyright issues because you put photos up on Facebook or your parents printed off a copy (and at that I'm not even sure what they realistically could do). If the photos appear in a magazine without permission (and particularly without reference to the photographer), then you have a problem and this is where copyright would come in.

baby and crumble

Bacchus wrote: »

Just on that, because I agree it is like commissioning an artist. The copyright of the art is not transferred to the buyer. No way would the buyer be allowed to reproduce prints of the artists work and sell them. This is a perfect example of why copyright remains with the creator (in this discussion, that is the photographer).

That's actually the best analogy. You just can't make money off something you didn't create.

Jude13

I look it again like the filming a feature movie, say james bond, nothing to do with buying a dvd. I am paying for the person to film a scene using their expertise, and equipment. Would I then need permission for each time a James bond dvd is sold, of course not. If a BMW designer is paid to design a car for them, do they get paid per car sold..

I do not want any monetary gain from printing my wedding pics, I just want to send them to friends around the world, any of the pics taken that day, not a limited number and with no water mark. I could just put in the contract that if I do try and sell the pics the photographer gets X euro just for their piece of mind ig uess.


I guess its down to how I word the contract with them and outline this them.

Pistachios & cream

I think you are getting a bit hung up on the copyright. The vast majority of photographers deal with the issue in their contracts.

While they retain copyright they give you a license to use the images in any way you would expect them to be used. Posted on social media, printed, sent to friends etc. They usually only retain copyright so the images can't be used comercially without their permission.

It would probably be very expensive to buy the copyright to the images and in my opinion there is no need. You just need to be aware of the issues so you get a package that suits your actual wants and needs. This way you will know exactly what you are getting.

baby and crumble

Good luck to you getting a good photographer who is happy signing away the rights to their work in entirety.

The reality is that most photographers provide you with a usb with your photos on them as part of the package. If you weren't able to print and share them they simply wouldn't give them
To you. Keeping the copyright just means that it prevents you from using their hard work to make money. Nobody is going to sue you for posting a picture of your wedding on Instagram.

And I really doubt you actually want all the photos taken. A good photographer will take literally thousands on your wedding to get the few hundred they give you. They obviously don't want to give you the crappy ones that didn't work, or the ones where the flash bounced off Aunty Mary's glasses. What would be the point?

Jude13

baby and crumble wrote: »

Good luck to you getting a good photographer who is happy signing away the rights to their work in entirety.

The reality is that most photographers provide you with a usb with your photos on them as part of the package. If you weren't able to print and share them they simply wouldn't give them
To you. Keeping the copyright just means that it prevents you from using their hard work to make money. Nobody is going to sue you for posting a picture of your wedding on Instagram.

And I really doubt you actually want all the photos taken. A good photographer will take literally thousands on your wedding to get the few hundred they give you. They obviously don't want to give you the crappy ones that didn't work, or the ones where the flash bounced off Aunty Mary's glasses. What would be the point?

No doubitng required, I do want all the pics that were take.

The copy right issue, from another poster "Irish copyright law means that even if you pay the photographer the photographer still owns the rights to the photos and you may not be able to send photos to people and print as you like".

So you can see that I would like to be able to send photos to people and print what I like. But it got swung somehow into a different discussion.

I am sure I will find a reasonable professional who will allow me to send the photos to people (not for any monetary gain) and print as I like.

baby and crumble

Jude13 wrote: »

No doubitng required, I do want all the pics that were take.

The copy right issue, from another poster "Irish copyright law means that even if you pay the photographer the photographer still owns the rights to the photos and you may not be able to send photos to people and print as you like".

So you can see that I would like to be able to send photos to people and print what I like. But it got swung somehow into a different discussion.

I am sure I will find a reasonable professional who will allow me to send the photos to people (not for any monetary gain) and print as I like.

Well all I can say is good luck and I hope you have a massive harddrive on your computer because you could very easily get 2000 photos shot in RAW format for your troubles.

Gatica

Yes, there are many photographers out there who will have a contract that will allow you to reproduce the photos they take and share them digitally or in print.
If you don't care about how they use these photos themselves, or trying to get copyright to make money, then you should be fine. Just read your contract.

Jude13

Thanks for the good wishes. It's now issues nowadays with terabyte hard drives etc at very low prices. Can't be more than the few memory cards the photographer uses anyway, but sure I have paid for them, whats the harm in having them.

Pistachios & cream

Jude13 wrote: »

"Irish copyright law means that even if you pay the photographer the photographer still owns the rights to the photos and you may not be able to send photos to people and print as you like".

Yes it was me that said this, however i didn't mean that you needed to own the copyright in order to share and print photos. I just wanted you to be aware that legally you are not automatically entitled to do this.

What you need from your photographer is an appropriate use licence.

Buying copyright could be horrendously expensive. And i think if you only look at photographers who will sell the copyright then you could be seriously limiting your photographer options.

Find the photographer you want, discuss use licenses and provision of digital images and unless they are completely unreasonable about what you can do with the images then you will be fine.

Bacchus

Jude13 wrote: »

No doubitng required, I do want all the pics that were take.

Unlikely you will get this. No photographer will want all the bad shots or unprocessed images out in the open as their name will be attached to them and that could potentially be damaging to their reputation. Why you would want the bad shots anyway is a strange one.

Jude13 wrote: »

The copy right issue, from another poster "Irish copyright law means that even if you pay the photographer the photographer still owns the rights to the photos and you may not be able to send photos to people and print as you like".

So you can see that I would like to be able to send photos to people and print what I like. But it got swung somehow into a different discussion.

Seriously, don't get hung up on this. You would be incredibly unlucky to hire a photographer that would enforce copyright law to the letter. Do not worry about this and if you want to be 100% confident, just ask the photographer about what you can do with the photos.

Jude13 wrote: »

I am sure I will find a reasonable professional who will allow me to send the photos to people (not for any monetary gain) and print as I like.

I think you would find it harder to find one that wouldn't allow you to do this.

Bacchus

Jude13 wrote: »

Thanks for the good wishes. It's now issues nowadays with terabyte hard drives etc at very low prices. Can't be more than the few memory cards the photographer uses anyway, but sure I have paid for them, whats the harm in having them.

As I pointed out in my last post (but will clarify here as you asked), the harm is to their reputation. That is their work and giving out bad images (every wedding photographer will have a ton of em from a full days shoot) is not a good reflection of their final product. Also, it would mean much more work for them and they would have to process every photo! Don't even think about asking for the RAW files Remember, you are not paying for every photo that they take on the day. You are paying for 200-600 (depending on what the specific photographer promises, could be more, could be less) photos of your wedding day.

My advice to you is to forget about the copyright, find a photographer you like, talk to them, try to book them, enjoy your day and the photos you will receive from your photographer. Anything more than this is just adding stress to your life that you don't need

Jude13

All sorted now, thanks for all the reply's. No watermarks, I get all the pics I want etc.

baby and crumble

Do you own copyright? I'm genuinely curious as to if you found someone to sign away their copyright. No watermarks and getting the pics you want doesn't seem unusual to me, which is what I was saying all along...

Jude13

Ditto

"
The copy right issue, from another poster "Irish copyright law means that even if you pay the photographer the photographer still owns the rights to the photos and you may not be able to send photos to people and print as you like".

So you can see that I would like to be able to send photos to people and print what I like. But it got swung somehow into a different discussion.

I am sure I will find a reasonable professional who will allow me to send the photos to people (not for any monetary gain) and print as I like."

baby and crumble

Jude13 wrote: »

Ditto

"
The copy right issue, from another poster "Irish copyright law means that even if you pay the photographer the photographer still owns the rights to the photos and you may not be able to send photos to people and print as you like".

So you can see that I would like to be able to send photos to people and print what I like. But it got swung somehow into a different discussion.

I am sure I will find a reasonable professional who will allow me to send the photos to people (not for any monetary gain) and print as I like."

So no, then. You got a photographer who gave you their standard usage package, like they give to everyone else.

Groundbreaking.