Am I wasting my time?

LoneWolf123

So, I'm currently in first year in college and I really want to be a Secondary School teacher. Every time I tell people that I want to be a teacher, all I hear is ''there are no jobs in that'' or ''don't go near i, you'll only be wasting your money.'' It's really distressing to hear all of these horror stories about thousands of teachers applying for one position and al the rest - especially since I've wanted to be a teacher ever since I was 13. I just wanted to know if the situation is actually that bad? Am I wasting my time? Should I focus on something else like translation or lecturing?

My teaching subjects would be French and Irish. Your answers would mean the world to me, they really would!

Realt Dearg Sec

LoneWolf123 wrote: »

So, I'm currently in first year in college and I really want to be a Secondary School teacher. Every time I tell people that I want to be a teacher, all I hear is ''there are no jobs in that'' or ''don't go near it, you'll only be wasting your money.'' It's really distressing to hear all of these horror stories about thousands of teachers applying for one position and all the rest - especially since I've wanted to be a teacher ever since I was 13. I just wanted to know if the situation is actually that bad? Am I wasting my time? Should I focus on something else like translation or lecturing?

My teaching subjects would be French and Irish. Your answers would mean the world to me, they really would!

Don't know anything about secondary teaching but I can tell you for certain that lecturing is by no means a fall-back option. Much worse situation, much more competitive and much more difficult and longer to get into a position where it would be a realistic option in the first place.

What I DO know about teaching is that my friends who did it had no problem getting jobs in England. But they weren't hoping to teach Irish so your position is different I guess.

appledrop

The situation is that bad for certain subjects but you are on to a winner with Irish. I know that there is definitely a shortage of Irish teachers and has been for the last few years. As a result you may end up mainly teaching Irish. Do expect a few years though of subbing, short term contracts etc.

looksee

Go for it. If that is what you really want to do, then carry on. If you have to change direction eventually, well so be it, but by the time you get through college either the department will be hiring again, or we will all be sunk.

Last time this happened everyone stopped doing primary teaching, then suddenly there was a crisis, not enough teachers and no-one in training.

If you can possibly add another subject, just in case Irish becomes non-compulsory, it might be worth considering.

The_Valeyard

You will be grand with Irish.
If it were the history, geography, etc it would be a lot more difficult.

sitstill

LoneWolf123 wrote: »

So, I'm currently in first year in college and I really want to be a Secondary School teacher. Every time I tell people that I want to be a teacher, all I hear is ''there are no jobs in that'' or ''don't go near it, you'll only be wasting your money.'' It's really distressing to hear all of these horror stories about thousands of teachers applying for one position and all the rest - especially since I've wanted to be a teacher ever since I was 13. I just wanted to know if the situation is actually that bad? Am I wasting my time? Should I focus on something else like translation or lecturing?

My teaching subjects would be French and Irish. Your answers would mean the world to me, they really would!

If you truly want to do it, then go for it. Irish and French are 2 of the better subjects jobs wise and anybody I know who teaches Irish got work much easier than other subjects. My own school had big trouble last year and this year getting someone decent to fill Irish hours. Teaching is no walk in the park. It has positives and negatives and even when you get a job, the hours can be part time and the contracts precarious; but if you really want to be a teacher then you'll be willing to tough all of that out.

sitstill

looksee wrote: »

If you can possibly add another subject, just in case Irish becomes non-compulsory, it might be worth considering.

Not going to happen!

racl96

I'm in a similar position, in my second year of college. My subjects would be French and Spanish. It can be really disheartening hearing all the horror stories but if it's really what you want to do, go for it! Get as much work experience as you can too, anyone I know doing the PME has said it really helps.

mirrorwall14

While I would be an advocate of go for what you want, I would temper that with the advice to go and read back over the forum of the last few years. This is my 8th year teaching, I'm finally CID'd, and I came out before the crash not during it. If you are on Facebook I would also advise following voice for teachers and reading the comments and threads that come up tjere

aunt aggie

Very good subject combination, especially if you're willing to move for work. I don't mean move to England, just to a different part of Ireland. Where would you hope to be based?

I know a teacher who's only in his second year out of college and looking at a CID next year. He only has Irish! On the other side, I was told as a student that there was a lack of Maths teacher only to find it very difficult to get work after college. The jobs market is impossible to predict, but at the moment I know of 3 positions that schools couldn't fill for teachers with one or both of your subjects.

evolving_doors

Ya Irish seems to be on the go at the moment (although everyone's saying it now so.....). We often have problems getting subs for languages. So If you were to do it then maybe invest some time in getting a third language in there somewhere to make yourself more flexible.

And if yer free and single and can fall back on living at home with the folks then that's handy too. It might be worthwhile going abroad with a view to getting some cash together and then coming home and playing the field!

acequion

You did say you really wanted answers so here's mine: Yes. I think you are wasting your time.

I'm a teacher coming towards the end of my career and I really am stunned by how much this job has deteriorated. There was a time, not that long ago, when teachers held great respect as educators but that has evaporated. That was a time when class sizes were manageable, teachers were supported with decent discipline structures,parents were quite supportive, overall pay and job conditions were good and it was taken into account that several extra hours were spent in preparing, correcting and all sorts of extra curricular That has all GONE. Nowadays,on top of all the extras willingly given, teachers are forced by the State to complete several extra hours on pointless things like meaningless meetings,basically to keep an anti public service public happy.And it will get worse with an inferior pay scale and derisory pension plan for new entrants which is what you will be.

People may counter that teachers still have the holidays. Don't hold your breath.Technically June is not part of our entitled holidays, so with teacher registration with the Teaching Council dependent on fulfilling hours of CPD,everyone agrees that June will eventually go.

On top of that check the statistics for occupational stress and you'll find that teaching is now one of the most stressful of occupations.

So, personally I would advise you to consider lecturing,or with a subject like French [one of mine] look further afield to interesting job opportunities for language graduates.

Despite all of that let me tell you that I have always enjoyed teaching and been very successful at it. But the profession has been destroyed by recent Governments who went all out to use the recession to squeeze the life blood out of teachers just to save a few bob when a soft target was needed. And sadly I don't see their endeavours being greatly reversed any time soon. So while I'll probably miss teaching when it all ends for me I really am glad to be towards the end of my career and would not choose it in the present environment.

So choose wisely as you have a long working life ahead. Best of luck and I'm sorry I cannot tell you what you would like to hear.

spurious

With good Irish, I would look more towards something in the civil service, if I were you. It might be grand teaching Irish to HL LC kids who like it, but put yourself at the other end of the market day in day out and you will crucify yourself. The four years before you will qualify as a teacher is plenty time for things to be even worse than now. I echo everything in acequion's post.

LoneWolf123

Thank you so much for your reply!! I'm in Galway at the moment but if there was a possibility of me getting a job in another county, I would definitely go for it!!

LoneWolf123

Thank you so much everyone for all of your replies!! I wasn't expecting this much of a reaction at all!! I appreciate your advice a lot acequion and I will definitely think about everything you said!! Just one question for you spurious, would you have any idea of some jobs in the civil service or how I could go about finding out about them?

Thanks a million for all of yer advice guys!!

spurious

Watch for civil service recruitment and aim for Department of the Gaeltacht, or any Dept. really, they all badly need people with good Irish.

LoneWolf123

Thank you so much Spurious!! You may have just made my day!!

janes1234

Don't go near teaching. It is way oversubscribed. The civil service is a good idea.

clever user name

I've never actually taught in Ireland, only the UK (went to university in the UK) so I can't comment on the situation at home.

What I will say is that if you want to travel/live abroad teaching is one of the best ways to do it. Qualified subject teachers from native English speaking countries are in huge demand. I've lived and taught in Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai, China and Thailand...amazing experience. The money teaching in international schools can be pretty damn good Plus you get to explore new places and experience different cultures. Nice weather is an added bonus.

Just another option if you're set on teaching.

jimmycrackcorm

There's huge growth in Gaelscoileanna, I think there will be more opportunities for teachers with good Irish than those without.

Redser87

Or think about the UN or EU for translation work. Plenty of graduate programmes out there for people with languages, try IBEC or enterprise Ireland. I am a primary school teacher and I love it, but conditions are dire at secondary level at the moment so you would need to be absolutely dead set on it to keep the motivation levels up.

MrJones1973

Stick with it. Get qualified. Its a passport for working anywhere (well French is) Its always been hard getting jobs. Always. At least Now you have CIDs. Once upon a time there was only permanency and Temporary by the hours jobs. Salary has been slashed so depends on what lifestyle you want? Money might not matter now but if you get married have kids it will.

If you have time consuming hobbies its a great job.
But No promotions (hardly) and after 20 years it becomes a bit static but you get lots of time with your own kids-if you have kids

RealJohn

If you've wanted to do it since you were 13 you should go for it. Will it be easy to get a job? Probably not, no. That's life though. Better to struggle to get a job than do a job you never wanted just because you don't want to take a risk. You can always decide to do something else after you qualify.

Obviously that advice is dependent on your own circumstances and whether or not you can afford to be on crap contracts for a few years but if it's what you want to do, you shouldn't allow the worry about jobs to stop you. There might be loads by the time you qualify. There probably won't be but nobody can tell you that there definitely won't.

pinkbear

I've worked at loads of jobs including as a secondary school teacher for many years. I really enjoyed it, and would definitely recommend it as a career. Teachers often feel they are hard done by.... but, having worked in many places, I can honestly say they are no more hard done by or badly paid than any other group of society. Having the summer off to fully "recharge" is incredibly beneficial, and I always came back feeling ready for anything in September, unlike other jobs where I often worked for 4 or 5 years with 4 weeks holidays per year so I never really felt like I got a break.

If you want to PM me, to find out more about my experiences in teaching, I would be happy to answer.

spurious

Oh it's a good job, if you can get more than a few hours.

gaiscioch

LoneWolf123 wrote: »

So, I'm currently in first year in college and I really want to be a Secondary School teacher. Every time I tell people that I want to be a teacher, all I hear is ''there are no jobs in that'' or ''don't go near i, you'll only be wasting your money.'' It's really distressing to hear all of these horror stories about thousands of teachers applying for one position and al the rest - especially since I've wanted to be a teacher ever since I was 13. I just wanted to know if the situation is actually that bad? Am I wasting my time? Should I focus on something else like translation or lecturing?

My teaching subjects would be French and Irish. Your answers would mean the world to me, they really would!

First, you're smart thinking about your options now. Both subjects are good. For French, I'd recommend spending as much time as possible there; there is a strong Irish community in Paris, people who just took the plunge and went for it.

Concerning Irish, you've a huge number of academic options (digital linguistics; placenames and historical research; glossary and encyclopaedia compilation, translation; simultaneous interpretation, etc). As others have implied, focus on being the best Irish speaker you can be. Don't lose sight of that goal. Every week without fail I get notification of jobs (I'm on my old uni's email list for such things). Contrary to what some might think there are always jobs teaching/researching Irish abroad, particularly in North America where numerous universities have an Irish Studies department as well as a Celtic Studies department. (Definitive list of Irish Studies programs in North America)

Try and separate your standard from the people who intersperse their Irish with like/so/just/you know. They're the bane of decent English; words fail me when they bring it into Irish. With a bit of effort you'll stand out from them. Choose your dialect, and stick with it. Look for a job teaching in a Gaeltacht college this summer. It's a great experience, and jobs are still available. Make contacts in your chosen Gaeltacht, and keep them. They'll be extraordinarily helpful in opening up the language to you and putting you on the right road in terms of questions regarding pronunciation etc. If you haven't made a contact yet and don't know where to start, the Fógraí an Lae section that starts on RnaG at 18:30 each day is a good place (a lecturer of mine looked for somebody who'd be willing to take her in to help her improve her spoken Irish and she never looked back). When I first went on a Gaeltacht course we were given a list of local families who provided accommodation. I've remained in close contact since with the family that I stayed with then.

As you probably know there are also fantastic online resources to help you with pronunciation, grammar etc, with www.teanglann.ie being exceptional. These are expanding by the day (i.e. employment opportunities in the future). Have RnaG as your default radio station; it will hugely help the language to sink in. Attend as many events as possible where you can speak and hear good Irish. You may have to seek them out but they're definitely there.

When you're on top of that standard, teaching could be an option but in terms of conditions it's not looking good at the moment for any of us. If we assume - and it's a very big assumption - that you get a 22-hour CID within 2 years of qualifying, then let's look at what that means. You'll most likely start on a much lower salary - currently €31k - than the likes of me started on - see what sort of house you'll get for 3.5 times your income, or €108,000. Here are the houses currently available in Dublin, for instance, under €125,000. That should be a sharp wake-up call.

Yes, we have great holidays but we obviously don't get paid for them (we get paid during them, but not for them). A secondary school teacher works 167 days a year. She/he naturally only gets paid for working 167 days a year. Not a cent more. Unless you've family money, you'll probably need a second job (which is where having good Irish would add immensely to your teacher's salary) Nevertheless, the holidays are great if you want to write a book or do something creative. On the other hand, remember you'll probably have kids too and they'll be on holidays then and you'll be the soft touch for childcare and there go your creative dreams for a number of years anyway. In short, get your standard of Irish/French as high as you can, and you'll have far more options than teaching by the time you qualify.

Icsics

I was at one of the teachers conferences last week. One of the speakers asked how many of us would recommend teaching to our own children. Not one person raised their hand.

maynooth_rules

Icsics wrote: »

I was at one of the teachers conferences last week. One of the speakers asked how many of us would recommend teaching to our own children. Not one person raised their hand.

Says it all. If I could speak to 17 year old me again Id say avoid teaching. Id also give that advice to my own children too. Depressing really

LoneWolf123

Wow!
Guys I can't believe I'm staying this but I'm starting to turn away from it. Hearing from all of the teaching conferences has really made me think long and hard about it. At the moment, its still what I want to do, and I'll still probably do the PME, because I'd still love to teach. But if conditions don't improve in the next three years, I'll be seriously reconsidering my options.

Gaiscioch - thank you so much for all of that advice! I try and spend as little time as I can in college speaking English and next year, I'm going to try and step it up!

Icsicis - wow! That's a real eye opener. Its such a shame, but I guess if there's such a large feeling something must be seriously wrong!

Maynooth_rules - I completely agree with you! Its such a pity to think that a career such as teaching has gone the way it has!

2011abc

Status and conditions of job has plummeted over last 15 years and is headed in one direction only . There was always a certain attrition rate in the job , people in final decade of service who were finding it hard going who were given a boost to pensionable service and humanely retired .One would have to be VERY pessimistic for the chances of teachers starting their careers today or perhPs even much less than half way through them They will be having breakdowns/ massive ill health and suffering poverty in their droves .Do expect to see them on the tills of your local supermarket both at start AND end of working lives .
Don't become a teacher today if you want to live anywhere half nice , drive a smartish car or send your kids to college .Exotic Holidays ? Ha !
It's no longer a career for members of the working or coping classes to move up in society in .

mtoutlemonde

LoneWolf123 wrote: »

Wow!
Guys I can't believe I'm staying this but I'm starting to turn away from it. Hearing from all of the teaching conferences has really made me think long and hard about it. At the moment, its still what I want to do, and I'll still probably do the PME, because I'd still love to teach. But if conditions don't improve in the next three years, I'll be seriously reconsidering my options.

Gaiscioch - thank you so much for all of that advice! I try and spend as little time as I can in college speaking English and next year, I'm going to try and step it up!

Icsicis - wow! That's a real eye opener. Its such a shame, but I guess if there's such a large feeling something must be seriously wrong!

Maynooth_rules - I completely agree with you! Its such a pity to think that a career such as teaching has gone the way it has!

On a positive note, you have very good subjects. I have been told that it is impossible to find French/Irish subs. I wish I could split myself between two schools I hate turning people down - I have been subbing for some time now - long term sick leaves / maternity leaves etc. On a negative note, I'm still living at home with no chance of that changing soon.

As the poster below your post, don't expect to have foreign holidays / flash cars with a teachers salary. Things have seriously changed -I remember when I was in school, all of the teachers had new cars - there's not too many now. Teaching would have great job satisfaction but that is not matched financially. It depends on your situation as it stands - have you a partner / children / mortgage etc. Ask yourself if you can live on day to day subbing for a few years? Can you move around the country? I remember a poster saying that they had travelled Ireland more than a Failte Ireland tour guide

I always want to teach and I would take a chance on doing the PME. I have been lucky enough as I have always had some form of work whether it be long term sick leaves / maternity / day to day subbing etc. It really is your decision and only you can decide. At least you have until to September to decide. Best of luck with it.