Election 2016

Steeevvyb

So who should someone who cares about great public transport for Ireland vote for?

coylemj

Public transport has never really been a national issue that concerned the individual political parties, it only ever comes up in the context of maintaining regional railway line and Bus Eireann services - the usual parish pump stuff. With all the political patronage at his disposal keeping Bertie in power from 1997 to 2007, I can only recall that in terms of transport policy, the late Jackie Healy Rae did claim credit for the Castleisland bypass but I don't ever remember him claiming credit for keeping any bus routes open.

I do recall a general election around 2002 when FG attempted to steal the environmental clothes from the Green Party and they (FG) said that if elected, as a matter of policy they would convert all Dublin Bus vehicles to run on unleaded, a proposal that was quickly withdrawn when it was pointed out that all of the buses had diesel engines!

L1011

I'd vote for future buses to be unleaded what with the huge improvements in petrol tech, nitrous, particulates and noise/vibration/harshness

savagethegoat

L1011 wrote: »

I'd vote for future buses to be unleaded what with the huge improvements in petrol tech, nitrous, particulates and noise/vibration/harshness

instead of diesel/hybrid/electric/gas all of which exist currently and are in use ?

MJohnston

savagethegoat wrote: »

instead of diesel/hybrid/electric/gas all of which exist currently and are in use ?

I'm curious, how good are the particulate filters on DB buses?

n97 mini

MJohnston wrote: »

I'm curious, how good are the particulate filters on DB buses?

You can see the various Euro standards here. The year of manufacturer determines what standards apply to a particular bus.

Somewhat bizarre that buses are legally allowed produce significantly more pollution than cars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Emission_standards_for_trucks_and_buses

Petrol is definitely better all round, but the future is electric.

bk

n97 mini wrote: »

Somewhat bizarre that buses are legally allowed produce significantly more pollution than cars.

That is because buses typically carry far more passengers per vehicle then cars. So the amount of pollution they produce per passenger is vastly lower then your typical car.

That actually makes buses/coaches the cleanest form of transport after walking, cycling and electric trains/trams.

That isn't to say that we should be improving them. London is already well on it's way to replacing it's bus fleet with Hybrids and we really should be following them on this. The stop and go nature of city buses make them perfectly suited to major gains from hybrid engines.

n97 mini

bk wrote: »

That is because buses typically carry far more passengers per vehicle then cars.

No, they have the potential, but frequently run lightly loaded or empty.

bk wrote: »

That actually makes buses/coaches the cleanest form of transport after walking, cycling and electric trains/trams.

And petrol vehicles.

bk wrote: »

That isn't to say that we should be improving them. London is already well on it's way to replacing it's bus fleet with Hybrids and we really should be following them on this. The stop and go nature of city buses make them perfectly suited to major gains from hybrid engines.

It's diesel engines that are the problem. A hybrid diesel bus would probably produce more PM and NOx than a petrol bus on the same route.

bk

n97 mini wrote: »

No, they have the potential, but frequently run lightly loaded or empty.

Not, true, the numbers don't support that, even lightly loaded vehicles still significantly outperform cars:

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2012/11/can-we-please-stop-pretending-cars-are-greener-transit/3960/

And Dublin Bus really doesn't have that many lightly loaded buses IME since network direct. Even Sundays they are usually impressively busy, having standing room only.

n97 mini

bk wrote: »

Not, true,

We're talking about pollution, which your link does not mention. Not a single mention of PM or NOx, two regulated emissions. Regulated as they're harmful to human health.

As regards running empty I sat in T2 departures for 25 mins this evening. I'd say 15-20 buses and coaches passed me, the vast majority were empty, and those with passengers had no more than maybe 2 or 3. I would like to see the figures for pollution from the entire bus fleet along with average loadings.

bk

According to this report, off peak drops to 40% compared to peak:

http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/node/add/content-publication/Cost%20and%20Efficiency%20Review%20of%20Dublin%20Bus%20and%20Bus%20%C3%89ireann.%20January%202009.pdf

Given that at peak hours it is standing room only and a squeeze at that (far more then 80 people), 40% for off peak is still extremely high. You would still be looking at a good 30 to 40 people per bus, which is very much the reality in my experience.

Note that Dublin Bus (or any operator) doesn't idiotically continue to operate all buses off peak. For example less then 50% of the buses operate Sundays, that operate during the weekday peak.

Also note that these numbers are from 2009, pre Network Direct improvements.

So yes, buses may well have higher NOX, etc. figures. But you are dividing that number by 80 to 120 people at peak hours and 30 to 50 people at off-peak hours.

BTW Not to really disagree with you on the main point you are making. I agree that the buses we use are far to big, loud and polluting and that NOX levels, etc. are a major health and safety issue for those living and working in the city that needs to be dealt with.