I need advice

Loblox

I've been here nearly three years. I was able to get onto the second IEC to extend my time here.

My current visa expires in May this year. I'm just short a little bit of time (a little over a month) before I'm eligible for the Express Entry. I just started a new job, full-time, and I'm certain I'll be eligible to apply for EE before times up, unless I really mess up. That's all fine.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to secure my OHIP stuff. My individual contracts haven't lasted long enough, and although I've used freelance work to pad the time between contracts, it hasn't been enough to cover me for OHIP. So, even though I've been here for ages, paid taxes every year, and been able to cover costs/rent/bills, I've been rejected whenever I applied.

Am I screwed? I need to know what my options are, because the clock's ticking and I really don't want to leave.

circular flexing

Loblox wrote: »

I've been here nearly three years. I was able to get onto the second IEC to extend my time here.

My current visa expires in May this year. I'm just short a little bit of time (a little over a month) before I'm eligible for the Express Entry. I just started a new job, full-time, and I'm certain I'll be eligible to apply for EE before times up, unless I really mess up. That's all fine.

Just so you are aware, IEC doesn't benefit from implied status. Once May comes around, you must stop working. You can apply to extend your status as a visitor, but unless you get a new work permit, you have to stop working until PR is processed (currently taking around 6 months for EE).

Do you have enough points to apply for EE at the moment? There's a handy calculator here (you need about 470-480 points at the moment)

https://www.bellallianceglobal.com/CRS-Score-Calculator

RichFTW

circular flexing wrote: »

Just so you are aware, IEC doesn't benefit from implied status. Once May comes around, you must stop working. You can apply to extend your status as a visitor, but unless you get a new work permit, you have to stop working until PR is processed (currently taking around 6 months for EE).

Do you have enough points to apply for EE at the moment? There's a handy calculator here (you need about 470-480 points at the moment)

https://www.bellallianceglobal.com/CRS-Score-Calculator

Pretty sure that's not true. The whole point of the implied status is that you can work while they are making the decision. Otherwise it would just be a visitors visa. A lot of Irish on the Facebook pages use it all the time.

You need to apply for a BOWP (bridging visa) about a week or so before your visa expires in May. If you apply online, you get a notification that they received your application and so you are then on implied status. The backlog for BOWP applications is about 3-4 months at the moment so you are on implied status until they actually get around to reading your BOWP application and realise you don't qualify for it. It's effectively a working extension. Just have to hope they don't speed up their processing times in the meantime!

Also the points are at 453 last draw and should come down within the next few months once they start letting more people apply for PR.

circular flexing

RichFTW wrote: »

Pretty sure that's not true.

It is true. If you look at the regulations around IEC visas, it states that you cannot extend an IEC visa. Given that implied status is basically a form of extension of your current visa, it follows that IEC does not benefit from implied status. If CIC discover that you've been working illegally it could seriously jeopardise your chances of getting PR.

RichFTW

circular flexing wrote: »

It is true. If you look at the regulations around IEC visas, it states that you cannot extend an IEC visa. Given that implied status is basically a form of extension of your current visa, it follows that IEC does not benefit from implied status. If CIC discover that you've been working illegally it could seriously jeopardise your chances of getting PR.

The implied status has nothing to do with the IEC though. You're not extending your IEC visa, you are getting it because of the BOWP application as part of the PR process. The PR process is completely separate to the IEC process.

You are working legally while on implied status. That's the whole point of it; that you can work legally while your immigration status is being reviewed.

circular flexing

RichFTW wrote: »

The implied status has nothing to do with the IEC though. You're not extending your IEC visa, you are getting it because of the BOWP application as part of the PR process. The PR process is completely separate to the IEC process.

You are working legally while on implied status. That's the whole point of it; that you can work legally while your immigration status is being reviewed.

Implied status has everything to do with your current visa - implied status is extending the conditions of your current visa until a decision is made about your new visa application.

RichFTW

circular flexing wrote: »

Implied status has everything to do with your current visa - implied status is extending the conditions of your current visa until a decision is made about your new visa application.

No it doesn't. Yes you are extending your current visa but based on a BOWP, not on the IEC. You are not applying through the IEC route at all. The BOWP is to do with the PR process. What do you think the purpose of the implied status is if no one can use it so?

Anyway it doesn't look like we are going to agree. The implied status thing is my plan B so I have done quite a bit of research on it and gotten advice on how it works from two people who work in immigration along with another who gives advice to Irish going through the same process. Also this topic is discussed pretty much every week on the Irish & Applying for Canadian PR Facebook page with tons of people using the implied status to continuing working while they wait for the points to drop for express entry. It can be used and employers know it can be used.

Once a decision is made on the BOWP though and you get the email saying so, then you can not work.

circular flexing

RichFTW wrote: »

No it doesn't. Yes you are extending your current visa but based on a BOWP, not on the IEC. You are not applying through the IEC route at all. The BOWP is to do with the PR process. What do you think the purpose of the implied status is if no one can use it so?

You can use implied status if you have a work permit that isn't an IEC permit. The key difference is "normal" work permits can be extended - IEC permits cannot be extended. And it is based on the IEC - you are asking for the current conditions that you are in Canada (i.e. IEC) under to be extended

Anyway it doesn't look like we are going to agree. The implied status thing is my plan B so I have done quite a bit of research on it and gotten advice on how it works from two people who work in immigration along with another who gives advice to Irish going through the same process. Also this topic is discussed pretty much every week on the Irish & Applying for Canadian PR Facebook page with tons of people using the implied status to continuing working while they wait for the points to drop for express entry. It can be used and employers know it can be used.

Once a decision is made on the BOWP though and you get the email saying so, then you can not work.

Sadly, you find people who work in immigration who believe that implied status for IEC is possible. However, they are wrong and should be ignored. Employers who employ people who think they have implied status under IEC should also be avoided.

It is worth reading this page as it explains quite clearly (with reference to the actual regulations) why IEC permits don't benefit from implied status, and has correspondence from CIC confirming this.

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Implied_Status_IEC

BTW, if you apply for BOWP and are refused, then you are out of status in Canada and need to apply for restoration of status (or leave the country) which might not be granted if CIC discover that you were working illegally.

RichFTW

circular flexing wrote: »

You can use implied status if you have a work permit that isn't an IEC permit. The key difference is "normal" work permits can be extended - IEC permits cannot be extended. And it is based on the IEC - you are asking for the current conditions that you are in Canada (i.e. IEC) under to be extended



Sadly, you find people who work in immigration who believe that implied status for IEC is possible. However, they are wrong and should be ignored. Employers who employ people who think they have implied status under IEC should also be avoided.

It is worth reading this page as it explains quite clearly (with reference to the actual regulations) why IEC permits don't benefit from implied status, and has correspondence from CIC confirming this.

http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Implied_Status_IEC

BTW, if you apply for BOWP and are refused, then you are out of status in Canada and need to apply for restoration of status (or leave the country) which might not be granted if CIC discover that you were working illegally.

The letter from the CIC which that link is based on is over 3 years old, before the system was revamped. Maybe it was the case before but I have never heard of anyone not being able to use the implied status after the IEC while going for PR. That link also seems to deal with using implied status when going for a new work permit, not PR. Also I'm more inclined to take the advice of people who have experienced the process first hand rather than some blogger or someone referencing what happened their friend. You can't be certain what these people did that could have resulted in a refusal of the implied status. With the FB page, you can see everyone post the same thing, that it works.

Nowhere on the CIC website does it mention that implied status can not be used if you were under the IEC route. You would think that they would include a piece on it considering if effects the majority of temporary residents who would want to to use it.

Here is another discussion board on the same topic and that letter: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/implied-statis-iec-to-bowp-t271834.0.html

Basically the same, one side says yes, the other says no. The no side is based on that magical letter.

Another discussion here: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/implied-status-while-waiting-for-bowp-and-pr-%E2%80%93-iec-participants-t187677.0.html

Point being made is that the BOWP is an entirely new permit and not an extension of the IEC. PR is different to the IEC.

These aren't small time companies or law firms that are aware of the implied status and use it. And you can be sure they checked over everything given how severe the penalties are for non-compliance re immigrants.

circular flexing

RichFTW wrote: »

The letter from the CIC which that link is based on is over 3 years old, before the system was revamped. Maybe it was the case before but I have never heard of anyone not being able to use the implied status after the IEC while going for PR. That link also seems to deal with using implied status when going for a new work permit, not PR. Also I'm more inclined to take the advice of people who have experienced the process first hand rather than some blogger or someone referencing what happened their friend. You can't be certain what these people did that could have resulted in a refusal of the implied status. With the FB page, you can see everyone post the same thing, that it works.

If by works you mean they don't get caught then sure. An application for a BOWP is still an application for a new work permit that happens to be supported by a complete PR application.

The regulations governing IEC and implied status haven't changed at all in the last few years. The wiki page I linked to was contributed to by a current CBSA officer as well, and I'd be more inclined to trust his advice than some randomner on Facebook.

Nowhere on the CIC website does it mention that implied status can not be used if you were under the IEC route. You would think that they would include a piece on it considering if effects the majority of temporary residents who would want to to use it.

The number of IEC permits is a mere blip on the radar compared to the total number of temporary work permits. And there is a page about it on CIC

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=181&top=17

Again, implied status is an extension.

Point being made is that the BOWP is an entirely new permit and not an extension of the IEC. PR is different to the IEC.

It doesn't really matter, you are still relying on your IEC status until such time as the decision is made on BOWP.

These aren't small time companies or law firms that are aware of the implied status and use it. And you can be sure they checked over everything given how severe the penalties are for non-compliance re immigrants.

No doubting that it is a grey area, which is why I would err on the side of caution because if it goes wrong it could seriously hamper your chances of immigrating to Canada permanently and affect admissibility to other countries such as USA. If you end up out of status and are asked to leave the country, then that would need to be declared on an ESTA application (for example)

RichFTW

circular flexing wrote: »

If by works you mean they don't get caught then sure. An application for a BOWP is still an application for a new work permit that happens to be supported by a complete PR application.

No by works I mean you can legally work under implied status. Which a lot of people currently do.

circular flexing wrote: »

The regulations governing IEC and implied status haven't changed at all in the last few years. The wiki page I linked to was contributed to by a current CBSA officer as well, and I'd be more inclined to trust his advice than some randomner on Facebook.

Don't know where you are getting the CBSA officer thing but doesn't mean much anyway considering its an anonymous message board. Could be just some guy with a lot of knowledge who always wants to be right, so he made up a story about being a CBSA officer to give his comments more validity or win an argument. Of course he could actually be one but at least with Facebook you can see the people and they are backed up with countless positive examples. It's still a small community over here so if someone was making sh!t up, they would be called out fairly lively.

circular flexing wrote: »

The number of IEC permits is a mere blip on the radar compared to the total number of temporary work permits. And there is a page about it on CIC

Over 40k a year is a mere blip on the radar? Doubt it. CIC cover a lot of finer points so something as big as this that could potentially impact 40k people a year would be dealt with rather than one letter sent to someone on a message board over 3 years ago.

circular flexing wrote: »

Again, implied status is an extension.

It doesn't really matter, you are still relying on your IEC status until such time as the decision is made on BOWP.

Agree to disagree!

circular flexing wrote: »

No doubting that it is a grey area, which is why I would err on the side of caution because if it goes wrong it could seriously hamper your chances of immigrating to Canada permanently and affect admissibility to other countries such as USA. If you end up out of status and are asked to leave the country, then that would need to be declared on an ESTA application (for example)

I'm sure someone would have picked up on this if it wasn't allowed. They shut down the loop hole where people where getting a second 2 year IEC visa through the young professional category fairly quickly so something as big as this would definitely be flagged more often. Also it has never been mentioned on the Irish FB group on PR which would be surprising considering that we have one of the biggest IEC visa quotas of any country. The only stories are hear say from some random message board.

circular flexing

Just to note, IRCC/CIC have closed the loophole of people applying for a work permit extension even if they have no entitlement to a new permit just to get implied status

Extensions
- If the extension is approved, the date of issue shown on the document represents the date a decision was made. Observations in the remarks box of the document indicate that the applicant maintained their status, as per subsection R183(6).
- If the extension is refused, the applicant is considered in status until the day the decision is made on their application.
- If the extension is rejected (incomplete), the applicant is considered in status until the temporary resident document expires.

Applying for a BOWP without having entitlement to one counts as a rejection, which means that any work carried out after the date of expiration of your work could be counted as illegal.

Loblox

circular flexing wrote: »

Just to note, IRCC/CIC have closed the loophole of people applying for a work permit extension even if they have no entitlement to a new permit just to get implied status

Extensions
- If the extension is approved, the date of issue shown on the document represents the date a decision was made. Observations in the remarks box of the document indicate that the applicant maintained their status, as per subsection R183(6).
- If the extension is refused, the applicant is considered in status until the day the decision is made on their application.
- If the extension is rejected (incomplete), the applicant is considered in status until the temporary resident document expires.

Applying for a BOWP without having entitlement to one counts as a rejection, which means that any work carried out after the date of expiration of your work could be counted as illegal.

I got the rejection a few weeks ago, so doesn't matter now. Just settling some last things before I head away.

EI-DOR

Implied status has nothing to do with the IEC. If it was the case of submitting an application to extend the actual IEC visa, then the Implied Status would not work like CF stated above, but because we're applying for an extension via a completely different permit the Implied Status is legal!

Circular Flexing, have you got your PR?

circular flexing

EI-DOR wrote: »

Implied status has nothing to do with the IEC. If it was the case of submitting an application to extend the actual IEC visa, then the Implied Status would not work like CF stated above, but because we're applying for an extension via a completely different permit the Implied Status is legal!

The basic premise of implied status is that it allows you to work under the terms of your existing permit beyond it's expiry date while a decision is being made on a permit application i.e you are allowed an extension to your current permit. Implied status has nothing to do with whatever permit that you have applied for.

Circular Flexing, have you got your PR?

Not yet, I have an application in progress and I may need to apply for a BOWP.

EI-DOR

The basic premise of implied status is that it allows you to work under the terms of your existing permit beyond it's expiry date while a decision is being made on a permit application i.e you are allowed an extension to your current permit. Implied status has nothing to do with whatever permit that you have applied for.

So going by what you're saying the hundred odd Irish people currently on Implied Status now are working Illegally in Canada who applied to gain more time?

I'm sure you're on the Irish FB page which is dedicated to Irish people applying for PR? It's ran by an Immigration Consultant who works for the Government. There is over 5000 people on the page and the majority of them are on Implied Status after their IEC ran out!

Not yet, I have an application in progress and I may need to apply for a BOWP.

Good luck with the PR!

circular flexing

EI-DOR wrote: »

So going by what you're saying the hundred odd Irish people currently on Implied Status now are working Illegally in Canada who applied to gain more time?

It's possible, yes.

I'm sure you're on the Irish FB page which is dedicated to Irish people applying for PR? It's ran by an Immigration Consultant who works for the Government. There is over 5000 people on the page and the majority of them are on Implied Status after their IEC ran out!

I'm not familiar with that group. And was the consultant employed by the government or were they just advising the government? I doubt they were working directly for the government as that could be a conflict of interest.

I also wouldn't take the advice of an immigration consultant without doing my own investigation. At the end of the day if it all blows up, it's you that will face the consequences and not the consultant.

This answer is pretty clear (remembering that implied status is an extension)

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=181&top=17

The rules/regulations to back up this answer can be found, if you go searching.

Good luck with the PR!

Thanks!

RichFTW

circular flexing wrote: »

I also wouldn't take the advice of an immigration consultant without doing my own investigation. At the end of the day if it all blows up, it's you that will face the consequences and not the consultant.

This answer is pretty clear (remembering that implied status is an extension)

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=181&top=17

I hope you plan on using an immigration consultant to help you with your application because you are trouble if you're relying on your own powers of investigation. You keep ignoring the fact that you are not extending your IEC visa, you are getting an extension as part of your PR application which is based on the terms of your old visa (IEC). The link above relates to extending your IEC through another IEC visa, not extending your stay while in the process of applying for PR.

circular flexing wrote: »

The rules/regulations to back up this answer can be found, if you go searching.

The rules for implied status can actually be found at this link (which you conveniently didn't include but referenced) to rehash your previous claims that were proved wrong, that is that you can't extend your stay after an IEC work permit.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/temp/visa/validity/implied.asp

Normally I wouldn't care about someone talking crap on the internet but I fear someone might read your skewed assumptions and believe it. I personally know more than one person who have used this implied status and have gotten the bridging visa without any hassle. Tons of people on the Irish FB groups have posted about using it and qualified immigration consultants (one of whom has over 10 years experience I think) have referenced it in these groups. I think I will go with the opinion of people experienced in the matter rather than your wealth of knowledge to be honest and I hope others reading this will too.

You post a lot on this forum helping people so I really don't understand what you are at here. You need to do some more research or arrange a meeting with a knowledgeable immigration consultant before giving advice on this matter as it could really harm someone looking to stay in the country who reads this and believes you.

AmyPL

RichFTW put it far more eloquently than I could have but I am also very sick of seeing misinformation being bandied around this forum.

circular flexing wrote: »

Just so you are aware, IEC doesn't benefit from implied status. Once May comes around, you must stop working. You can apply to extend your status as a visitor, but unless you get a new work permit, you have to stop working until PR is processed (currently taking around 6 months for EE).

This is flat out incorrect, and you could cost someone their job. Do a bit more research please, before instructing people to take drastic steps like quitting work based off of false information.

Lose the job? Or lose the right to work? That's the stakes if you guys are wrong. Either way, this thread fails to help, with two sides insisting they're the truth, the light, the one real way. My advice is to seek an immigration professional, and quit the job if you want to stay. Better off not working though you can, than working though you can't. Immigration officials will appreciate overcaution, and may see you in a favourable light.

EI-DOR

Right, I emailed a well known Immigration Professional who deals with the Government and probably knows more about the IEC end of things than anybody else.

So basically I explained to her what I done, I filled in the IMM5710 form, sent it off via post about a week before my IEC visa was up. Reason being was to get more time on Implied Status until I got my second 2 year IEC activated on a different passport. She said that was absolutely fine and the reason why I was on Implied Status is because I applied to Extend my Status as a Worker until a decision was made on the work permit.

Circular Flexing was correct in saying you can't extend the IEC visa, but you can apply to extend your status as a worker when on the IEC and gain Implied Status until a decision is made which was my case. I got 3 months on Implied Status before activating the second visa!