oil burner problem

tommyc123

Hi.
I was hoping someone can help. I ran out of oil lad week for my oil heating, and got new oil . I had to bleed the system, as I had ran dry completely.

Since then, I have a problem in that for the first 30mins or so when I turn on the burner, the burner is blowin on and off every few seconds. The system itself says running but the burner is like its igniting for a few seconds then quenching then lighting again. While this is happening the rads stay cold. But after about half hour, the burner stays lit, and rads heats up and all is fine and stays so until its turned off . Then same problem again the next day when i go to turn on the heating.

Its a firebird popular 120.

Any ideas what's wrong???? Any advice appreciated.

Dtp1979

Your photocell is dirty. Incorrect combustion is what's causing it. Get your burner serviced, get a flue gas analysis printout off the service engineer too.

agusta

Even when it appears to run perfect its not really.there is still incomplete combustion.It could be a partially blocked nozzle or a damaged pump if you pressed the reset button too many times.A service from a technician that uses a flue gas analyser will sort it.

tommyc123

Sound for that. Much appreciated.

Where exactly is the photocell? Would I be able to clean it myself?

agusta

What make of burner is it.Is it a riello 40 G5

Dtp1979

tommyc123 wrote: »

Sound for that. Much appreciated.

Where exactly is the photocell? Would I be able to clean it myself?

You coujd but your not solving the problem and it will re occur

tommyc123

agusta wrote: »

.....damaged pump if you pressed the reset button too many times.

Thanks Agusta.

If it was a damaged pump, how come it works perfectly once it starts going, until i stop it again?

tommyc123

agusta wrote: »

What make of burner is it.Is it a riello 40 G5

Firebird popular 120

agusta

tommyc123 wrote: »

Firebird popular 120

This is the boiler make.There will be a name printed on the burner where the flame comes from.is the cover a square red box

agusta

tommyc123 wrote: »

Thanks Agusta.

If it was a damaged pump, how come it works perfectly once it starts going, until i stop it again?

When it comes on eventually it appears to work perfectly but i would think that your still getting incomplete combustion which mean that the efficiency of the boiler would be very poor too.
My money would be on a partially blocked nozzle.But yet it could still be the pump.
If your not getting the correct amount of fuel through the nozzle the air from the fan can blow out the flame and keep repeating this

yellow hen

Dtp1979 wrote: »

You coujd but your not solving the problem and it will re occur

Hi dpt79, in a bit of a jam in relation to a last minute heat zoning job. Our plumber has come in very expensive and another user here recommended you. I'm based in maynooth and just wondering if you'd be interested in the job? Problem is that it needs to happen quite quickly, electricians have all the wiring in. If you're interested can you give me a pm. I can't send you a pm at the minute as its over capacity.
Thanks

tommyc123

agusta wrote: »

This is the boiler make.There will be a name printed on the burner where the flame comes from.is the cover a square red box

Its a RIELLO 3. RDB

any way of checking the nozle myself before calling in the big guns???!

agusta

Its possible to remove nozzle,yet you cant test it 100 percent.Also the pump should be tested with a pressure gauge.Either way the burner/boiler should be set up with a flue gas analyser.It looks like it will need a service

John T Carroll

tommyc123 wrote: »

Hi.
I was hoping someone can help. I ran out of oil lad week for my oil heating, and got new oil . I had to bleed the system, as I had ran dry completely.

Since then, I have a problem in that for the first 30mins or so when I turn on the burner, the burner is blowin on and off every few seconds. The system itself says running but the burner is like its igniting for a few seconds then quenching then lighting again. While this is happening the rads stay cold. But after about half hour, the burner stays lit, and rads heats up and all is fine and stays so until its turned off . Then same problem again the next day when i go to turn on the heating.

Its a firebird popular 120.

Any ideas what's wrong???? Any advice appreciated.

Think I saw something like that a good few years ago, the tank hadn't run dry but on refilling rapidly, the burner was exhibiting the same symptoms, there was also a "air bubble" in the top of the glass of the oil filter housing , the owner removed the (bottom) vent screw completely and kept venting/draining for a long period, cant remember if he removed the flexible hose as well to get a good flow but it certainly came good without any other intervention ..... worth a try at any rate and costs nothing.

tommyc123

Hi

I was looking at it again there this evening. The burner comes on, flame n all, for about 3 seconds , then turns off for about 10 seconds, then back on again for another 3 , and so on, for about 40 mins, until it stays on until its turned off!!!��

jimf

burner overaired which can be caused by partially blocked nozzle as already advised

faulty photocell another possibility

John T Carroll

tommyc123 wrote: »

Hi

I was looking at it again there this evening. The burner comes on, flame n all, for about 3 seconds , then turns off for about 10 seconds, then back on again for another 3 , and so on, for about 40 mins, until it stays on until its turned off!!!��

jimf wrote: »

burner overaired which can be caused by partially blocked nozzle as already advised

faulty photocell another possibility

Yes, Page 28 "Flame Off and Re Lights" would seem to suggest either Solenoid Coil or Photocell or Control Box, there's also a note there saying that the solenoid has two coils and gives two test readings.

jimf

a simple test to check for overairing partially cover air intake with your hand when the burner is trying to ignite if it ignites and stays running then it is probably the cause of your problem


this is not advising anybody to adjust the air damper settings themselves

John T Carroll

Another Link from four years ago..... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056789112

agusta

John T Carroll wrote: »

Yes, Page 28 "Flame Off and Re Lights" would seem to suggest either Solenoid Coil or Photocell or Control Box, there's also a note there saying that the solenoid has two coils and gives two test readings.

It does say this in the manual,But only after A/ pump produces pressure, B/ Nozzle atomising fuel C/ combustion air set.These 3 would have to be proven first.I would be zoning in on A and B because the op ran out of oil.Yet not fully completely ruling out the photo c

John T Carroll

agusta wrote: »

It does say this in the manual,But only after A/ pump produces pressure, B/ Nozzle atomising fuel C/ combustion air set.These 3 would have to be proven first.I would be zoning in on A and B because the op ran out of oil.Yet not fully completely ruling out the photo c

It would be interesting to see what the Ballymakeera lads think, I,m inclined to think that this happens occasionally on a fair few Firebirds and that they "clear" themselves, if the duration is very short then most people probably wouldn't particularly notice it.

jimf

you could well be correct jtc

just an observation I find this over airing more so in gx5 burners fitted with lower output nozzles ie .65 nozzles

tommyc123

John T Carroll wrote: »

It would b<script id="gpt-impl-0.2877913747132797" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_81.js"></script>e interesting to see what the Ballymakeera lads think, I,m inclined to think that this happens occasionally on a fair few Firebirds and that they "clear" themselves, if the duration is very short then most people probably wouldn't particularly notice it.

Ud notice it alright. . . . . The rads not heatin. The wife definitely notices it!!!

John T Carroll

jimf wrote: »

you could well be correct jtc

just an observation I find this over airing more so in gx5 burners fitted with lower output nozzles ie .65 nozzles

Thats interesting all right, my own 11 year old Firebird (70/90) is fitted with that gx5 burner and came fitted with a 0.6, 80H nozzle which I believe is the OEM supply, I replace it occasionally with exactly the same.

John T Carroll

jimf wrote: »

you could well be correct jtc

just an observation I find this over airing more so in gx5 burners fitted with lower output nozzles ie .65 nozzles

jimf wrote: »

a simple test to check for overairing partially cover air intake with your hand when the burner is trying to ignite if it ignites and stays running then it is probably the cause of your problem


this is not advising anybody to adjust the air damper settings themselves

tommyc123 wrote: »

Ud notice it alright. . . . . The rads not heatin. The wife definitely notices it!!!

The rads should normally be up to temperature in 25 to 40 minutes after a cold start in the morning, depending on ambient conditions, have you any idea what the air damper index setting is, you can read it off, it might be somewhere between 2.3 and 3.
Sorry we cant be of more assistance but it may be time to consider getting some professional help, a good/proper service might sort it out.

jimf

there a good burner john but I find the damper very sensitive on them

they are the ideal burner of the old style for indoor utility boiler etc as they have no damper mechanism to leak like on the g3 burner

agusta

tommyc123 wrote: »

Ud notice it alright. . . . . The rads not heatin. The wife definitely notices it!!!

A happy wife is a happy home,you will have to bite the bullet and get someone in to service boiler.The boiler should be serviced annually.

tommyc123

jimf wrote: »

a simple test to che<script id="gpt-impl-0.7173078716978636" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_81.js"></script>ck for overairing partially cover air intake with your hand when the burner is trying to ignite if it ignites and stays running then it is probably the cause of your problem


this is not advising anybody to adjust the air damper settings themselves

Hi Jimf

Thanks so much.
I partially covered air intake this morning, and the burner stayed lit. So what does this mean . . . . My nozle dirty ya??

John T Carroll

jimf wrote: »

there a good burner john but I find the damper very sensitive on them

they are the ideal burner of the old style for indoor utility boiler etc as they have no damper mechanism to leak like on the g3 burner

Carried out a few tests this AM ..... boiler had been off for 8 hrs.
Damper original setting: 1.9. Ambient Temp: 3C.

Increased damper to 3.5.....boiler fired instantly as soon as spark initiated after the 12 sec purge period, left boiler running for approx 3 minute.

Reduced damper to 1.5.....boiler fired instantly as soon as spark initiated after the 12 sec purge period, left boiler running for approx 3 minute.

Reset damper to its original setting of 1.9.

From the above it would appear that the damper setting isnt critical on my particular model EXCEPT that the fan is drawing its full air capacity at a damper setting of 1.5 which would seem unlikely, this would mean that my burner is running overaired for 11 years, I cant lay my hands on any of the F.Gas analysis but I'm pretty sure that the CO2 was 11.5 "ish" with a F.Gas temp of 210C with everything, including water temperature, at normal.

Edit: Just saw OPs post re restricting the airflow as you originally suggested, he might just try (temporary measure?) to reduce the damper to 1.7/1.8, if its not all ready at that setting.

jimf

your readings as posted above 11.5 co2 would equate to 35% excess air john which would more or less be the setting we would be looking for


now imagine a partially blocked nozzle it could very well increase the excess air into 45/50 % range with a distorted flame pattern this is where the problems start

other things can come into play as well riello pumps have been known to fail but continue to operate at 6bar pressure

imho its time for the op to bite the bullet and get somebody in with the proper equipment to check and set up his boiler properly

John T Carroll

jimf wrote: »

your readings as posted above 11.5 co2 would equate to 35% excess air john which would more or less be the setting we would be looking for


now imagine a partially blocked nozzle it could very well increase the excess air into

Makes perfect sense.

tommyc123

I got mine fixed anyway. Replaced Photocell.

Thanks v much to all.