Audio upgrade - whats involved?

Black_Knight

Im considering upgrading my car audio, but honestly don't have a clue where to start. I've standard speakers in my 09 Passat CC, and ive a RNS510 head unit in the dash. I don't want to change this unit, as i've a reversing camera and sat nav currently in the car. Assuming I can upgrade the audio, id probably look into putting in a BT module so I can BT stream my google music from my phone. Think of this as more of a factory audio upgrade, and less "pimp-my-ride"

So, questions!

1. Is there much to be gained by swapping out the factory speakers with something higher end? Or is this only half the battle?
2. Other than the existing factory speakers, do I need to add more (diversity)?
3. What about amplifiers? Will I need one or does the Head Unit handle that?
4. What about a sub? I'm not looking to shake the car or anything, but I want some dept to the audio.
5. Cost? Any ball park here?

As I say, I've no clue, so feel free to educate me.

damo86

dynoaudio retrofit!? :P

Gladen make good speaker packages for VW models (but seems to be just golfs, by the looks of it?)

Germaniks here might be your best shout, i'd say.

Whats the standard set up: 4 speaker set up?

Black_Knight

damo86 wrote: »

dynoaudio retrofit!? :P

You've lost me already here....

damo86 wrote: »

Gladen make good speaker packages for VW models (but seems to be just golfs, by the looks of it?)

Germaniks here might be your best shout, i'd say.

Whats the standard set up: 4 speaker set up?

I think ive seen bmstuff do some work on a VW Golf using Gladen speakers, though I think he changed pretty much their entire sound system, whereas im looking to keep my head unit.

Standard setup is 4 speakers, yes.

MobileAudio

For streaming music from your phone there is probably an interface available from one of the manufacturers that specialize in such things.

With the audio.

1, Changing your speakers for something decent will make a substantial difference to the dross VW ( and EVERYONE else ) fit as standard. When I say decent I'm not talking about pioneer etc.

2, As for the quantity of speakers less is more yet all the car brands go on about is how they have 11,15,18 etc in their cars. All you need for a really nice set up is front speakers. Do you have 11,15 or 18 speakers in your living room ?

3, This kind of depends on 4. Depending on how efficient the speakers are they can run very effectively from just head unit power.

4, Subs are not always about shaking the life out of you. For example the double bass was not invented for that, yet you can't experience the double bass without a sub woofer. You will need an amplifier for a sub and ideally when you do this you will want to amp your speakers also.. to balance out your system

5, Realistically, from 1k up plus install etc.

damo86

Black_Knight wrote: »

You've lost me already here....


I think ive seen bmstuff do some work on a VW Golf using Gladen speakers, though I think he changed pretty much their entire sound system, whereas im looking to keep my head unit.

Standard setup is 4 speakers, yes.

Dynaudio are the manufacturer of the factory upgraded speakers (500-800 option). I wouldn't necessarily go down this route as it hard to source parts and would be more expensive in the end.

Bmstuff does do set ups using the standard headunit.

4 speakers is plenty to get the desired result in my opinion, I currently have a factory Dynaudio in my Golf. Its a 4 speaker set up with the twin speaker sub in the boot and it sounds divine!

You can still use your current head unit.

As Mobileaudio said, if the speakers are meaty enough, you will not need a sub.

Generally the built in amp on the headunit (the RNS510 is 4X20Watts) wouldn't be able to drive a decent set of speakers so an external amp will be essential.

You're better speaking to an installer to spec one to meet your needs and budget.

Hope the above info help!

Black_Knight

Thanks all. I'm a little wiser now. Seems I could get away with new speakers and thats all, but then I might miss a sub... at which point I get a sub and then need an amp. Kinda "all or nothing" situation. Add in the cost of the BT unit too . Its certainly at the higher end of what I would be hoping to spend. After im sure the BT unit will be plug and play (no wiring needed) it'll be time to do some man-maths to justify this.

I've seen bmstuff's posts around the place, and ive actually PMd him, though he was last online the morning after I PM'd him. Must of scared him away. Any idea what part of the country he's located?

damo86

Black_Knight wrote: »

Thanks all. I'm a little wiser now. Seems I could get away with new speakers and thats all, but then I might miss a sub... at which point I get a sub and then need an amp. Kinda "all or nothing" situation. Add in the cost of the BT unit too . Its certainly at the higher end of what I would be hoping to spend. After im sure the BT unit will be plug and play (no wiring needed) it'll be time to do some man-maths to justify this.

I've seen bmstuff's posts around the place, and ive actually PMd him, though he was last online the morning after I PM'd him. Must of scared him away. Any idea what part of the country he's located?

I would still get an amp so it will be all wired ready to go for when you add a sub.

The built in amp on RNS510 still won't be meaty enough to drive a decent set of speakers.

Problem with aftermarket subs is where you would put them. Choices really are under the seat or in the boot (thus taking space). Especially with a car like yours, discreetness is the key .

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pioneer-TS-WX77A-Amplified-Subwoofer-Enclosure/dp/B0002MNX5K

Was always a fan of that sub as it was flat and out of the way. Don't make them anymore unfortunately but might be able to source them somewhere.

Hope BMStuff gets back to you!

The bluetooth module can be done yourself. I did mine (took about an hour) but will need somebody to code. This brings me to another potential issue:

How will you be playing the music: via bluetooth, media in (iPod/SD etc) or CD? I ask because I found a huge quality drop when using bluetooth as it is compressed streamed music. I initially thought there was something wrong with my speakers as they would break up at high frequencies...turned out it was just the crappy bluetooth. What I'm saying is, all the money put in by upgrading the speakers will be wasted using bluetooth streaming.

Black_Knight

damo86 wrote: »

I would still get an amp so it will be all wired ready to go for when you add a sub.

The built in amp on RNS510 still won't be meaty enough to drive a decent set of speakers.

Problem with aftermarket subs is where you would put them. Choices really are under the seat or in the boot (thus taking space). Especially with a car like yours, discreetness is the key .

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pioneer-TS-WX77A-Amplified-Subwoofer-Enclosure/dp/B0002MNX5K

Was always a fan of that sub as it was flat and out of the way. Don't make them anymore unfortunately but might be able to source them somewhere.

Hope BMStuff gets back to you!

The bluetooth module can be done yourself. I did mine (took about an hour) but will need somebody to code. This brings me to another potential issue:

How will you be playing the music: via bluetooth, media in (iPod/SD etc) or CD? I ask because I found a huge quality drop when using bluetooth as it is compressed streamed music. I initially thought there was something wrong with my speakers as they would break up at high frequencies...turned out it was just the crappy bluetooth. What I'm saying is, all the money put in by upgrading the speakers will be wasted using bluetooth streaming.

Interesting. I'm planning on streaming using BT. I've got a google music account and it kinda bugs me, having to download and load songs onto a SD card. What BT module did you use? Im planning on going OEM. I've added a range of extras to my car, and its been a goal of mine to keep them all OEM. €300 for an OEM BT system, so expecting good performance out of it.

MobileAudio

I wouldn't be overly concerned with using OE stuff. After all the OE stuff is made by the usual big brands in the car electronics industry. Something else to keep in mind is the fact you will have to leave the OE stuff go with the car when you sell, like the Dynaudio system. Where as if you use after market you can move it onto your next car etc and the gear is better.

Black_Knight

MobileAudio wrote: »

I wouldn't be overly concerned with using OE stuff. After all the OE stuff is made by the usual big brands in the car electronics industry. Something else to keep in mind is the fact you will have to leave the OE stuff go with the car when you sell, like the Dynaudio system. Where as if you use after market you can move it onto your next car etc and the gear is better.

If i'd thought of things that way, i'd never have put in the RNS510, or the reversing camera, or cruise control, or this thread.

That said, i'd be putting in BT mainly just for audio streaming, not making calls. If there's a decent stealthy solution for BT audio streaming i'll take a look.

MobileAudio

You have put a lot into the car all right, nice improvements. :-)

I'm talking about the audio stuff mainly. Just makes sense to put something in you can keep afterwards....where possible that is. Obviously some stuff will be car specific like the rear camera etc.

Black_Knight

MobileAudio wrote: »

You have put a lot into the car all right, nice improvements. :-)

I'm talking about the audio stuff mainly. Just makes sense to put something in you can keep afterwards....where possible that is. Obviously some stuff will be car specific like the rear camera etc.

Understood. If I can find a BT system that is affordable and can stream music to the head unit then thats really all im after. Its rare enough I use my phone in the car anyways. If the options were €200 aftermarket BT vs €300 OEM BT, i'd probably go the extra €100 just for the extra integration (steering wheel controls, phone book etc).

Harcrid

I installed the OEM bluetooth solution into my CC a few years ago for the same reason in that I prefer to keeps things OEM. I use it for streaming podcasts and it works fairly well although sometimes it can have a bit of a hissy fit and not stream but thats rare. I'll try and dig out the model number of the BT module I bought. It was about €150 if I remember correctly.

EDIT
I believe this is the same part that I got at the time.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/VW-SEAT-SKODA-BLUETOOTH-MODULE-INTERFACE-KIT-9w7-RNS510-RCD510-5K0035730D-/252302415366?hash=item3abe655606:g:lEAAAOSwB4NW1FRj

Black_Knight

Harcrid wrote: »

I installed the OEM bluetooth solution into my CC a few years ago for the same reason in that I prefer to keeps things OEM. I use it for streaming podcasts and it works fairly well although sometimes it can have a bit of a hissy fit and not stream but thats rare. I'll try and dig out the model number of the BT module I bought. It was about €150 if I remember correctly.

€150 is more like it Harcrid. What head unit are you running with?

Harcrid

RNS510.

Black_Knight

Harcrid wrote: »

RNS510.

Same as my own so. Cant be sure what version mine is though. Maybe H, or P. Not sure if that makes a difference. If you could send on any links or anything around the BT module you used that'd be great. No point in my upgrading speakers if I dont get the BT module in and working.

Harcrid

This is pretty much the one I have. I got it on ebay also but it was cheaper when I got it.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/VW-SEAT-SKODA-BLUETOOTH-MODULE-INTERFACE-KIT-9w7-RNS510-RCD510-5K0035730D-/252302415366?hash=item3abe655606:g:lEAAAOSwB4NW1FRj

I cant find my original order as it was two years ago but you are better off with the 9W7 version which this is as it integrates with the maxidot a lot better than the 9W2 version. There is another upgraded BT module you can get which adds WiFi capability (using your phones data to create a WiFi hotspot) if you want to go mad. :-)

It will work fine with your head unit. You can probably install it yourself as you are comfortable taking of trim panels, but I had mine fitted for me. Just needs s small bit of coding with VCDS then.

jca

Sorry to hijack your thread black knight but I'm looking for a bt oem kit for my bolero equipped octavia too. That one on ebay looks the business.

damo86

The Bluetooth in my car is the standard Golf MK7 one.

I did retrofit the 9W7 kit as Harcid suggested in my old Golf MK6 and it was the dogs bollocks!. I did also stream via bluetooth but that was with stock speakers and had no issues with it (as I couldn't crank up the volume anyway!)

Your route of going OE and going aftermarket for the sound is the way to go.

Only differences of the RNS versions was C and up had the new LED screens, H and up had a bigger hard drive and dual core processor. No difference in functionality.

MobileAudio

Black_Knight wrote: »

If the options were €200 aftermarket BT vs €300 OEM BT, i'd probably go the extra €100 just for the extra integration (steering wheel controls, phone book etc).

Some of the decent after market stuff does everything the OE does but also fits your next car. Steering wheel controls and instrument text display are all possible.

Black_Knight

Harcrid wrote: »

This is pretty much the one I have. I got it on ebay also but it was cheaper when I got it.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/VW-SEAT-SKODA-BLUETOOTH-MODULE-INTERFACE-KIT-9w7-RNS510-RCD510-5K0035730D-/252302415366?hash=item3abe655606:g:lEAAAOSwB4NW1FRj

I cant find my original order as it was two years ago but you are better off with the 9W7 version which this is as it integrates with the maxidot a lot better than the 9W2 version. There is another upgraded BT module you can get which adds WiFi capability (using your phones data to create a WiFi hotspot) if you want to go mad. :-)

It will work fine with your head unit. You can probably install it yourself as you are comfortable taking of trim panels, but I had mine fitted for me. Just needs s small bit of coding with VCDS then.

There's a 9w7 on ebay at the moment. Used, but allegedly working. Combined with what I think is the right wiring, its not a bad deal. About €170.