Pretty damned miffed

TheminxIRL

My friend has two children and I have one who are all in around he same ages.

On Friday a group of us took all our boys off for a day out trekking, great day was had by all although the kids were wrecked. My friend and I traveled in her car as I was unsure of the directions. So two adults and four kids together in her car and another friend and two in the other.

During the walk my friend criticized the cap my son was wearing, saying he resembled a rapper from years ago. I do not particularly like the cap myself but he loves it so its his choice to wear it, he is 11. I didnt like the comment but didnt want to be petty and say anything but I would never belittle anything her kids wear.

So we get home and apparently, although I have to say I heard nothing and was sitting beside her, my friend said my son was showing off in front of his friend and banged on her car window with the palms of his hands as he had gotten out and we were picking up coats bags etc, messing as 11 year olds do. She said he made the slitting his throat gesture and when she asked him what that meant he apparently said your dead whilst smiling at her.

Now I know my son is not an angel and never will be, he can be cheeky, rude, brazen like all kids but he is not a total brat or anything like it,he has his boundaries and loses his laptop, games etc if punished, but I know exactly what he was doing, he was over excited after the walk and being in the car with his friends.

So we get into our own car, say goodbye and my phone rings. My friend said it was bothering her and she had to say it but that my son showed her the height of disrespect after giving him a lift to the walk and after giving him a bar of chocolate, which she did and he thanked her for and also thanked her for the lift.

I was shocked to be honest, I didnt know it had been done to start with and while it obviously had, I dont think it was worthy of a call to tell me I need to pull him on it and what a disrespectful child he is etc etc.

I feel it is a huge over reaction and like I said before I would never correct/comment on or critise her children.

A flippant comment from me regarding it resulted in her stating that her children are not angels but are not disrespectful which I beg to differ, I only drink soft drinks and bring a can or a bottle of diet coke with me when I visit her and her oldest takes my can and either drinks out of it or takes it away with him uncorrected.

When eating and he has finished he will take food from others plates which he has done when we have been out eating in public.

Sorry but i find that behaviour far more disrespectful..

When with her now I feel that there is an elephant in the room as she is expecting my son to apologise but I dont feel he should have to.

Am I making excuses and if you were her would you consider it that big a deal and consider him show you no respect?

Id welcome any opinions as I fear this could end our friendship

Rekop dog

Regardless of the context it sounds like a pretty disturbed gesture to make to an adult, can see why she was a little taken aback by it. He should apologise and be told in no uncertain terms that that is weird behavior.

TheminxIRL

I think thats a bit harsh as this behavior goes on everyday in the playground and is something she would see her own boys do.

My son is neither weird nor disturbed but I have explained to him how he might do that among his friends when they are playing that he should not do it with an adult.

My son is a normal well adjusted happy boy and not some murderer in the making.

bee06

I don't think anyone is saying he's a murderer in the making but I'd agree that it's quite a disrespectful and disturbing thing for him do and say. If it was my child I'd be punishing him not giving out about the person who told me.

LegacyUser

Just because you would never dream of making such a call to a friend about their child, doesn't mean everyone else should be the same. Your son did something in her company which she wasn't happy about. She told you. Fair enough.

Her son takes your drink from you. You don't tell her you're not happy about it. Fair enough. I would tell my child not to take something belonging to someone else. I would also stop a child (sounds like they're all aged about 10, and up so old enough to be told!) who tried to take something I wanted to drink. Sometimes I would share whatever I'm eating it drinking with a child. All depends on the context. Maybe she thinks you are ok with sharing your drink because you've never said otherwise.

Your are the type to not comment on others children's behaviour. She is the type that does. You're not wrong, but neither is she. I think you should ask your son why he made that gesture to her, and why he thinks it's ok to make that gesture to someone who had just given him a lift for a nice day out.

And in future tell her when her son does something to bother you! I sense the friendship will run it's course soon enough, anyway.

TheminxIRL

TheminxIRL wrote: »

My son is a normal well adjusted happy boy and not some murderer in the making.

That doesn't make it ok for him to make those gestures to people
If he did it, it's him you need to be having a word with, not freaking out and trying to dig up old resentments against her. Theyre two separate things

Colser

If your friends son had done this to you how would you feel about it Op?

Id be pretty annoyed tbh and I know what boys are like,the gesture he made to her as an adult was bad enough but its the slamming on the car window with his palms that would have boiled my blood and if I was her Id have pulled him up on it there and then tbh.

Sound Bite

I'm all for defended your children but seriously ask yourself the following:

1. Do you think his behaviour was acceptable?
2. Are you proud that your son would behave in such a manner?
3. Where are you going wrong that your son thinks this is acceptable behaviour?

How your friend reacted is a minor matter, how your son behaved is an issue that needs to be addressed.

I also wouldn't consider it acceptable at any time whether it's with his friends or in adult company.

Rekop dog

TheminxIRL wrote: »

I think thats a bit harsh as this behavior goes on everyday in the playground and is something she would see her own boys do.

My son is neither weird nor disturbed but I have explained to him how he might do that among his friends when they are playing that he should not do it with an adult.

My son is a normal well adjusted happy boy and not some murderer in the making.

Well if you have to be prompted by an internet forum that he was obviously out of order in this instance, you're probably not he best person to make a judgement on his character.

TheminxIRL

Ok I get the gist of it now.

Thanks for the opinions

power pants

I can take a laugh and a joke but if a friend's child made that gesture to me, I would not be happy and I would let their parents know too.

As said earlier by another poster, I dont think your son is disturbed but the gesture is wrong as well as rude and he needs to be told that it is unacceptable to behave like that.

In later years, make that gesture to the wrong person and bad things can happen

LegacyUser

Just because you think her son is equally/more disrespectful than your son doesn't mean that you shouldn't correct your son for being disrespectful to her. Comparing the two is not helpful. Yes, her son appears to be a bit disrespectful.. That's her business to worry about/or not. But your son was disrespectful to her. He's 11. Not a toddler. Old enough to be told off for slamming his palms on her window. Being excited in the car with his friends is no excuse. He's old enough to know better, and he's old enough to know that he shouldn't make that gesture to an adult. Would he make it to his teacher? And if he did would you excuse it because there are other boys in his class who are a bit wilder than your boy?

My children are children. They are still learning what is appropriate and what isn't. Sometimes they know but chance it anyway, sometimes they don't realise until it is pointed out to them. Your son was wrong. You know he was wrong but think he is less wrong than her son. That's not good enough reason to not get him to apologise. It'll be a good lesson for him.

PlainP

Definitely not good behaviour. I've 2 sons 11&12 and would not tolerate this from them.

He definitely needs to apologise and understand that it's not how people usually interact with each other.

11 is still young. Hormones could be kicking in though. Try and nip any bad behaviour in the bud.

Good luck. ......... We'll need it!

ElleEm

I agree with the other posters, whether your son was 'showing off with his friends' or not, it is unacceptable to slam on someone's window. He was also quite threatening and menacing in his language and behaviour, which you really should address. I have no idea how you think this was okay! It seems like you are getting quite petty, moaning about her children's behaviour after the fact. At least your friend raised the issue when it bothered her.

SouthernBelle

My son is 18 and if he had ever dared to behave like that at 11, he'd have been grounded. He still would today!

Roselm

TheminxIRL wrote: »

Ok I get the gist of it now.

Thanks for the opinions

I agree your son's gesture was socially out of line but I wonder if he was angry about your friend's comment about his hat but didn't know how to say it/felt he couldn't so resorted to a gesture??
It's not ok for an adult to belittle a child in the same way it's not ok for a child to threaten an adult!

Kidchameleon

Jebus christ kids will be kids your friend is totally over reacting

Rubberchikken

we can all acknowledge that none of our children are angels, but when someone else points out their faults, we all tend to get on the defensive.

try to remove your feelings from this and look at your son's behaviour objectively. what is it telling you?
you say you do correct him when he steps out of line, is it consistent enough that he understands it?

i know kids are watching all sorts of things nowadays and will mimic them. kids do. are you fully aware of what he is watching on tv/ps4/whatever?

speaking for myself, if a friend's kid made that throat gesture to me in that situation and at 11 i wouldn't pay any attention to it. 11 yo boys can be daft especially when surrounded by others lads that age.

but maybe it was the proverbial straw with your friend. what has his behaviour been like in her company on previous occasions?
you need to examine it not just for your friendship's sake but for your son's. he's only going to get older.

good luck

Call me Al

I'd also like to point out, as a mom of boys, that 11 year olds aren't necessarily cheeky rude and brazen.
In fact if any of my kids were any of those things to another person they'd be left in doubt that it wasn't acceptable. Making a gesture like that definitely comes under that category. It's completely inappropriate.

Your concern should be your child and his behaviour. If your friend chooses to turn a blind eye to her son taking other people's things then so be it. If he keeps taking stuff that isn't his those chickens will come home to roost eventually too.

Neyite

I think OP, if your friend wasn't so opinionated, and didn't let her own boy away with bad behaviour, you'd agree that he took messing a bit far, and needs to say sorry.

But because you feel she's got a cheek to point out your boys behaviour while making out hers is a little angel, it is irking you. It would piss me off too.

But it's two separate things. You need to correct your son. He needs to say sorry. And I'd suggest that you bring him over, let him say sorry sincerely and concisely: "I'm sorry for banging on the car window and making a face at you", but don't let her over-egg it, or start lecturing him about it either - if she does, just interrupt and civilly point out that you don't lecture her son, so she should extend the same courtesy to you. Just let him apologise and leave.

Next time they want to meet up for a play-date, just be busy or bluntly tell her it doesn't work for you. Who needs someone who takes the piss out of a your kid as a friend?

haveringchick

Hey OP
Some romances last a lifetime, some friendship do too
More often though friendships, like romances, just fizzle out, I think your friendship with this woman is terminally ill
I cannot understand why your friend would even mention your child's hat. It's a bloody hat. He's a bloody preteen. Nobody was asking her to wear the hat so it was a completely unnecessary remark and I think your friend simply cannot stand your child and that she can't disguise her dislike
I have an 18 year old daughter and I have deeply disliked some of her friends over the years and tried to hide it but she has recently told me that despite my best efforts it was perfectly clear to everyone who my favourites were and who was on the blacklist
But your son was very very rude and disrespectful to bang on her car window and make that gesture and you must admonish him and insist he apologise to her for his own good going forward
Good luck

kjl

To be honest as I was reading the OP I was wondering who the child was.

Your son sounds like a totally normal 11 year old kid, but what he did is not really they way should should treat anyone let alone an adult friend of his parents. The reason I am having trouble figuring out who the child was is because reaction to it is ridiculously immature. You bring up something the other person's child does to make let your own child off the hook.

If it was my child, I would be demanding they apologize for such a vulgar thing to do and if you don't mind me saying you are supposed to be the child's mother, not his friend. Trying to let him off the hook for something he did which was bold does not fly. I think if you son apologized to your friend he would learn that there are consequences for being rule.

jimd2

TheminxIRL wrote: »

Ok I get the gist of it now.

Thanks for the opinions

If it was me I would probably bring him around and get him to apologise. However, I do think that she was totally out of line to make those comments about his hat. She has kids herself and must know how sensitive some are.

You have identified enough issues with your and your kids relationship with her and her son that, if it was me, I would be reducing the contact. That might not be easy if ye are part of a bigger group. However, I would not be instigating much with her again if it was me.

Best of luck and let us know what you decide to do and how it goes with her.

orthsquel

For the benefit of the 11 year old child I think you ought to have a discussion with him about it... like he needs to know gestures like that are not nice and not acceptable at all, regardless of your own personal feelings about the gesture itself.. Imagine for a minute it was a sexual gesture he made!

What matters is that your 11 year old thinks a gesture like that is appropriate. Where do you draw the line, from his point of view? It's not really important whether you think the gesture is funny or gross or disturbing, what matters is that his behaviour had a negative impact on someone else. And I don't think she is being unreasonable in being upset in that. He needs to take responsibility for his behaviour and you, as the parent, need to ensure he does take responsibility and understands what is appropriate and what is not regardless of your own personal view.

I'm sure if he did that gesture towards his uncle, aunt, granny, neighbour, local garda, teacher they would not be impressed at all and maybe all but the teacher would avoid addressing it (the teacher from a disciplinary point of view in a classroom may have to deal with it).

astonaidan

Kids these days are brats, you see it everywhere, this is because they have parents who are idiots growing up thinking its funny and cool to have the kids doing and saying disrespectful things. My nieces and nephews know when we are at the house that if they try any nonsense then I will put them to bed, but to many people just let their kids be little dicks without any form of correction, its a world where its never the childs fault its the teachers, bull**** its the parents fault not the teachers, your child was wrong, how you didnt see it straight away is madness

triona1

Nyite worded that perfect,I'd only read the first few posts but then read on I've 4 kids 3 son's ageing 20/18/14 and a 12 year old daughter and that's exactly what I'd do.

Keane2baMused

Sorry OP but your son's behaviour is totally inappropriate and I would not accept that from my son, I would be mortified.

If you want your son to understand that respect for adults is not optional, then you really need make sure he apologises.

It's not relevant what your friend let's her kid away with. This is about your child,nobody else.

LegacyUser

If an 11yo boy made a slit-throat gesture at me,& also told me verbally that he meant it to mean "You're dead", I'd be seriously freaked out& shook up. Especially if it was *only* after a pass-remarkable comment over his baseball cap looking like some rappers'.
What'd be to say that next time, if the boy took umbrage at some other minor comment about his fashion sense, & being older taller& more physically imposing, that he wouldn't escalate the threat & actually attack me?
Nip this in the bud asap OP. It's not a joke, not funny, & not acceptable in any context.

PressRun

Normally I'd be in the camp that says it's not up to other people to parent your children and that anyone else should stay well out of it when it comes to discipline and whatnot. That being said, your son made an ill-mannered, even threatening, gesture towards an adult and I do think that kind of behaviour should be nipped in the bud early on, before he starts becoming a teenager. It needs to be explained to him quite clearly that it's not appropriate to interact with anyone using those kinds of gestures or that kind of language. I'd have him apologize for what he did. That way he's seeing consequences. If your friend continues to interfere on the matter, then be frank with her and tell her that it's been dealt with and you don't appreciate her attempts to parent your children.

I don't think it's useful to get into a back and forth over who has the worst behaved child. You just need to look after what's happening on your end and correct it. I know it's irritating to hear someone complain about your child while acting as though theirs is all sweetness and light, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't discipline your child for bad behaviour towards that person. If your friend doesn't want to correct her own children on their rude behaviour, then that's on her and, frankly, she'll probably see the consequences of that further down the line.

kylith

I think you need to have a talk with your son and get him to apologise. If he will behave I appropriately to your friend he'll behave inappropriately to other people. And who do people blame when they see kids acting like gurriers? The parents. Do you want your son to give people the idea that you raised him to have no manners and no respect?

tupenny

He's an 11 year old lad. I doubt he even knew the impact his gesture could have. OP I'd have a chat with him, pointing out it was wrong etc, I'd tell your friend you have done same. Really wouldn't come down too hard on him for this but don't let the chance to have him think go either.
A lot of overreaction going on in this thread IMHO! !

Ham Sambo

A lot of adults fall out over kids, and if she is a good friend then it's not worth falling out about. Both of you should gather up the kids and lay down some ground rules on what is acceptable behaviour.

The_fever

Jesus. Some people need to get a life, leave the kid alone... I would be telling your friend to get over herself.

Keane2baMused

The_fever wrote: »

Jesus. Some people need to get a life, leave the kid alone... I would be telling your friend to get over herself.

That attitude is exactly why so many kids now grow up to be disrespectful, self entitled brats.

LegacyUser

I'm sorry, but I'd be horrified at your son's behaviour. It is actually quite disturbing. I guess, trying to give the benefit of doubt, that he could be heavily influenced by not very nice peers. But even if you could put his behaviour down to peer pressure, as opposed to him behaving in an alarming manner, were you not aware of tendencies like this before? Have you corrected him on acting out in such an aggressive manner? Do you keep an eye on his interaction with peers?

You're not going to like this, but I find your thread title so inappropriate: you are 'damned miffed' at your friend being honest enough to tell you that your son's behaviour is disturbing. Which it is. And could well land him in trouble if he continues along those lines. I really think you are being many stages too far in dismissing his behaviour as a childish prank. If I were your friend, I wouldn't want my kids around him tbh. You may think that's an overreaction, but I would think it's a reaction you might find reasonably common in other parents.

In short, your son needs to learn the difference between appropriate & wildly inappropriate behaviour. If this behaviour is coming from him, what he did was quite nasty, and aggressive. If you truly believe that it's not coming from him, then you really do need to monitor his relationships with peers. I can hardly believe that you're so dismissive of his awful behaviour. He needs to see how badly he behaved, and that there are consequences. And apologise.

tupenny

He's an 11 year old! To say his behaviour is horrifying etc is way over the top imo!! Yea it might be "horrifyingly inappropriate" if it was a grown man making the gesture.
OP I'd just take the opportunity to have a chat with your son, point out how his gestures etc could be taken and leave it at that

Flippyfloppy

tupenny wrote: »

He's an 11 year old! To say his behaviour is horrifying etc is way over the top imo!! Yea it might be "horrifyingly inappropriate" if it was a grown man making the gesture.
t

It would be less 'horrifyingly inappropriate' if the issue was dealt with by an adult! Knowing that this behaviour is being dismissed by the very person who should be guiding him morally is what is making this worse. And it will allow this attitude develop into something more, whereby the young man doesn't understand the impact of his actions, or that there may be consequences to them.

kylith

tupenny wrote: »

He's an 11 year old! To say his behaviour is horrifying etc is way over the top imo!! Yea it might be "horrifyingly inappropriate" if it was a grown man making the gesture.
OP I'd just take the opportunity to have a chat with your son, point out how his gestures etc could be taken and leave it at that

And how is a grown man to know what is inappropriate behaviour if he's not pulled up on it as a child?

Honestly if I'd done something like that the bollocking I'd have gotten about my behaviour and how it reflected on my family it would have been monumental.

PressRun

Children need to be taught appropriate social skills and learn how to behave in company, and it's the responsibility of parents to teach them that. There doesn't need to be a big song and dance made of the situation, nothing needs to be blown out of proportion, but there's a lot to be said for calmly explaining to a child that certain behaviours are not appropriate and having them apologise for such. Letting them off on a "kids will be kids" technicality is doing them a disservice in the long run, and as much as "kids will be kids", it's also up to parents to be parents.

iguana

I think kids need to be taught that someone else's bad behaviour doesn't make their bad behaviour ok. It's a tough lesson to teach because ideally you want to teach them that it's ok to feel angry and hurt when someone belittles you and you have to acknowledge the upset he might be feeling because of your friend's bad manners towards him. But also teach him that he needs to learn to deal with those feelings in an appropriate way and discipline him for how he acted towards your friend afterwards. You need to teach him that his gestures and comments were not appropriate, to anyone, because they aren't appropriate on the schoolyard either tbh. Ideally he will apologise to your friend for how he behaved but he would be fully justified in explaining to her that her comments about him were very hurtful too and his actions came from a place of anger and frustration because of how she made him feel. Ideally then she will also apologise for her part in what happened, though a lot of adults have some idea that they shouldn't apologise to kids. And if she can't see that she played a negative role in what happened, I'd probably be dialing back the friendship because I wouldn't want to be around someone who thinks it's ok to belittle children.

arayess

op your child was silly.
simply asking him to tone down his behaviour will suffice.
some of the alarmist posts in the thread are actually pathetic.

Op - BTW your friend was out of order.

PlainP

arayess wrote: »

op your child was silly.
simply asking him to tone down his behaviour will suffice.
some of the alarmist posts in the thread are actually pathetic.

Op - BTW your friend was out of order.

The issue posters had was with the OP, not her son. The OP was not going to admonish her son for his behavior, she didn't think he did anything wrong. So I don't know where you are getting this "alarmist posts in the thread are actually pathetic" from!

LegacyUser

arayess wrote: »

op your child was silly.
simply asking him to tone down his behaviour will suffice.
some of the alarmist posts in the thread are actually pathetic.

Op - BTW your friend was out of order.

I'd hardly call the post alarmist. A lot agree the friend was out of line but also think the OP was out of line for not correcting her child. The OP spent a good chunk of her post explaining why her friends kids were awful kids to prove her friend had no right to comment on the carry on of her child whose behaviour she excused as being a result of being excited to be around his friends. I know if I carried on like she described my mother would not have been as forgiving as the OP.

Looking at her follow up posts she clearly just wanted people to agree the friend was out of line and not question the carry on her towards her childs actions. I doubt she'll be back to read anything past page 01 to be honest.

arayess

PlainP wrote: »

The issue posters had was with the OP, not her son. The OP was not going to admonish her son for his behavior, she didn't think he did anything wrong. So I don't know where you are getting this "alarmist posts in the thread are actually pathetic" from!

I've taken a quick selection.....just to help you weed them out.

bee06 wrote: »

I don't think anyone is saying he's a murderer in the making but I'd agree that it's quite a disrespectful and disturbing thing for him do and say. If it was my child I'd be punishing him not giving out about the person who told me.

disturbing?
fred west and graham dwyer are disturbing...not an 11 year old acting up

Sound Bite wrote: »

I'm all for defended your children but seriously ask yourself the following:

1. Do you think his behaviour was acceptable?
2. Are you proud that your son would behave in such a manner?
3. Where are you going wrong that your son thinks this is acceptable behaviour?

How your friend reacted is a minor matter, how your son behaved is an issue that needs to be addressed.

I also wouldn't consider it acceptable at any time whether it's with his friends or in adult company.

seriously...the tone of this post ....perhaps not alarmist but certainly over the top.

Rekop dog wrote: »

Well if you have to be prompted by an internet forum that he was obviously out of order in this instance, you're probably not he best person to make a judgement on his character.

jaysus.

ElleEm wrote: »

I agree with the other posters, whether your son was 'showing off with his friends' or not, it is unacceptable to slam on someone's window. He was also quite threatening and menacing in his language and behaviour, which you really should address. I have no idea how you think this was okay! .

he is 11 and acted out of turn .
It's not menacing... a junkie with a syringe is menacing...not an 11 year old.
alarmist.

orthsquel wrote: »

For the benefit of the 11 year old child I think you ought to have a discussion with him about it... like he needs to know gestures like that are not nice and not acceptable at all, regardless of your own personal feelings about the gesture itself.. Imagine for a minute it was a sexual gesture he made!

.

WTF - beyond the realm of alarmist..,..from a stupid gesture to sexual gestures. next he'll be the poster boy in consent classes....don't be like this kid.....That's some leap. Seriously.

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Sorry OP but your son's behaviour is totally inappropriate and I would not accept that from my son, I would be mortified.

.

jaysus. he was bold, inappropriate I could let go but "totally" and "mortified".

I'd suggest this poster get out more or cop on that your kids aren't you. You are responsible for them but anybody who judges a parent on an incident is a fool.

vvvvvvsass wrote: »

If an 11yo boy made a slit-throat gesture at me,& also told me verbally that he meant it to mean "You're dead", I'd be seriously freaked out& shook up. Especially if it was *only* after a pass-remarkable comment over his baseball cap looking like some rappers'.
What'd be to say that next time, if the boy took umbrage at some other minor comment about his fashion sense, & being older taller& more physically imposing, that he wouldn't escalate the threat & actually attack me?
Nip this in the bud asap OP. It's not a joke, not funny, & not acceptable in any context.

Holy mother of divine jaysus.....:rolleyes:
an 11 year old son of her friend would have this poster (who'll I assume is an adult) not freaked out but "seriously freaked out and shook up"...
.he is 11.
sometimes I wonder if half the posters actually read the OPs.

tupenny

Arayess , great post! I see it the exact same way, you expressed it so much better!
OP I hope yer all over the incident now. Definitely not worth coming down to harshly on your son over.

Keane2baMused

arayess wrote: »

jaysus. he was bold, inappropriate I could let go but "totally" and "mortified".

I'd suggest this poster get out more or cop on that your kids aren't you. You are responsible for them but anybody who judges a parent on an incident is a fool.

No, given the length of (and time you put into) your post I think you would do well to get out more.

I'm too busy raising my kids to be respectful and kind individuals to go out "more" but thanks for the err 'intelligent advice' :-)