Ratio of civil /non religious weddings to catholic church weddings these days??

amdublin

Conversation with my friend yesterday about the decrease in (your standard catholic) church wedding compared to civil/hotel ceremonies.


I estimate it is at 60/40 - church/civil. This is crudely based on the last few weddings I have been to and the next few coming up.


My friend has only been to church weddings - never has been to a civil/hotel weddings. So obviously her feeling was different from me.


What would your feeling be? (Or what kind of wedding are you planning to have?)

haveringchick

I think the "official " figures are 80/20 but for me it's 90/10 and the only "registry office " dos are those where one of the parties has been married before and hasn't got a church annulment

Keane2baMused

haveringchick wrote: »

I think the "official " figures are 80/20 but for me it's 90/10 and the only "registry office " dos are those where one of the parties has been married before and hasn't got a church annulment

That's completely not the case. Many couples opt for civil regisration now and not because they have been married before! That's quite an insular view.

Pistachios & cream

In the weddings on line survey, church weddings were 72.5%. http://www.weddingsonline.ie/blog/weddingsonline-survey-results-2016/

I've noticed myself that as our friends group has aged we have had more non church weddings. Not due to previous marriages but more so that they are clearer in their own minds about the type of wedding they want and there are a lot more options now for non church weddings.

Malari

Mine is the only non church wedding I've ever been to.

Carlos Orange

Keane2baMused wrote: »

That's completely not the case.

Probably best to not overrule a persons perspective on their own life experience. They are usually best placed on that.

PhoenixParker

Figures are page 10 here up to 2014:

https://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Register-General-Report-2014.pdf

22,033 marriages, 14,972 religious (bear in mind that includes people like the spiritualists etc, but obviously is mostly RC),
6167 civil, 894 secular. Overall that gives 68% of marriages as religious, with a slightly lower proportion of those being "church" religious.

2014 was the first full year that secular marriages were available and considering how long the average wedding is planned, I'd expect that to go up in 2015.

93% of those marrying were single, i.e. not divorced or widowed.

haveringchick

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Figures are page 10 here up to 2014:

https://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Register-General-Report-2014.pdf

22,033 marriages, 14,972 religious (bear in mind that includes people like the spiritualists etc, but obviously is mostly RC),
6167 civil, 894 secular.

2014 was the first full year that secular marriages were available and considering how long the average wedding is planned, I'd expect that to go up in 2015.

That's very interesting
23,000 still believe in marriage!

hairyslug

Malari wrote: »

Mine is the only non church wedding I've ever been to.

Same here (my wedding,not yours) and for the weddings I have gone to, all bar one are in no way religious.

Malari

hairyslug wrote: »

Same here (my wedding,not yours) and for the weddings I have gone to, all bar one are in no way religious.

Yeah, now that I think of it, same here.

eviltwin

Back in the 90's and early 00's every wedding I went to was in a church. I've only known one couple since who have had a church wedding. I don't know anyone who had a civil wedding out of necessity ie it was a second marriage. The people who married in a church mostly did so for the look of the place rather than religious reasons.

snickerpuss

Of the last 6 weddings I've been to (i.e. in my adult life not as a kid) they've all been secular/civil. Mostly humanist. I'd love to see the figures if there were enough humanist/secular ministers to go around! Very hard to get a booking with them. I believe it's just over a third at the last count.

Edit: this Irish Times link says a third but incorrectly suggests that the marriages take place in civil registery offices. None of the wedding I attended were in a registry office. I got married in a historic house

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/don-t-want-to-be-married-by-a-priest-call-the-solemniser-1.2195526

PhoenixParker

snickerpuss wrote: »

Of the last 6 weddings I've been to (i.e. in my adult life not as a kid) they've all been secular/civil. Mostly humanist. I'd love to see the figures if there were enough humanist/secular ministers to go around! Very hard to get a booking with them. I believe it's just over a third at the last count.

Edit: this Irish Times link says a third but incorrectly suggests that the marriages take place in civil registery offices. None of the wedding I attended were in a registry office. I got married in a historic house

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/don-t-want-to-be-married-by-a-priest-call-the-solemniser-1.2195526

Christ they get so many things wrong in that article.

With nearly a third of all marriages in Ireland now taking place in civil registry offices

No it's 19% in Civil Registry offices themselves (4195 of the 22,033 above are actually in the registry office.

they include 5,506 religious in three main groups, Humanists, Spiritualists and Interfaith, charging anything from €350 to €500, plus expenses.

Humanists are a separate category - secular. The main religious group is Roman Catholic priests (close to 5k solemnisers), Spiritualists and Interfaith are a tiny party of that.

They can solemnise weddings, which means you don’t have to go to the registry office first.

This is a little disingenuous, you always have to go to the registry office first to give notice whatever flavour of ceremony you're having. What they mean is they can perform the legal ceremony which a celebrant can't.

O’Brien says many of the nearly 7,500 couples who solemnise in a registry office annually

6k in 2014, of which 4k were actually in a registry office.

Though I fully support the opening up of the solemnisers register. The current situation is ridiculous and in desperate need of a change.

Atomic Pineapple

Been to six weddings the past two years, all have been in a church but of those six all were only in a church either for family, tradition or look and feel reasons, all six couples getting married were not practicing Catholics and none of them have attended a mass since they got married.

So while many people continue to get married under the Catholic church the figures are flawed as they are doing so not out of belief in it as a religion but for other reasons. I would suspect the figure of non practicing Catholics getting married in a church ceremony could be rather large also.

Faith

Now that I think of it, mine is the only non-religious wedding I've ever been to also.

I know at least two long-term couples where they haven't gotten engaged specifically because one's family would put huge pressure on for a religious wedding (and the person wouldn't stand up to them) and the other party refuses to have a religious ceremony.

About a year before our wedding, we were in the pub with my bridesmaid and her long term partner. As we were discussing our reasoning for choosing a humanist ceremony, my bridesmaid was agreeing enthusiastically but her partner casually announced that he'd like to get married in a church, and baptise their kids. She was horrified!

But I guess it's often easier for a non-religious person to agree to a religious wedding, then it is for a religious person to agree to a secular ceremony.

pwurple

People's age will change their perception of this. It's been a while since I went to a wedding where neither person was previously married, i'm in my 30's. the last 4 weddings I've been to have been second-time-arounds. Not many of those would be in a church?

My own wedding was not a church, but it was performed by a priest. What category am I?

solerina

I'd say 80-20 is probably close. I have been to numerous weddings over the past few years and not one of them was a civil ceremony, all held in church.

pconn062

I've been to six full weddings in the last 10 years or so, three were in a church and three were non religious. Of the three non religious, 1 was a second marraige for both partners and the other two were single people. I am getting married myself next year and ours is a humanist ceremony which is being held in a small function room in a hotel. We have our humaniser booked already for a 2017 wedding, very high demand. I imagine when more humanists are approved the amount of humanist weddings will increase.

lazygal

haveringchick wrote: »

That's very interesting
23,000 still believe in marriage!

You don't "believe" in marriage, it isn't like Santa. We got married because it's easily the easiest and most cost efficient way to deal with taxes, inheritance, next of kin and children's status. That and love.

intheclouds

In the past few years I've been to 1 civil marriage in the registry office (they were having a religious ceremony in the brides home country the following month), 1 same sex civil ceremony (pre same sex marriage), 1 full civil marriage in a hotel (second marriage), my own civil marriage in a different country, and about 5 church weddings of which I know 1 bride who was genuinely religious, the rest doing it for show or parental pressure or nice photos.

pconn062

I should point out that in the three church weddings I was at, only one couple had any belief in God. In the case of the other two, one was because the mammy wanted a church wedding (grown adults who can't say no their parents) and the other was because the bride wanted a church wedding because her father recently died and he wanted them to be married in church. That is fair enough I suppose, but neither party had any faith.

I find it very odd that people with no faith can go through with church weddings. In my experience the church part is pretty full on and you have to say and commit to a lot of things.

intheclouds

The inability to have a civil ceremony at the weekend is quite a limiting factor.

Toots

Keane2baMused and haveringchick if you have a problem with a post, please use the report button. Do not drag the thread off topic by bickering.

haveringchick

lazygal wrote: »

You don't "believe" in marriage, it isn't like Santa. We got married because it's easily the easiest and most cost efficient way to deal with taxes, inheritance, next of kin and children's status. That and love.

Yes you believe, you feel, marriage was, is , the best domestic arrangement for you and your OH
Others, my brother and his OH for example, believe that with the divorce rate at 52% in the country they are currently residing in, and as the mother of his soon to be 2 daughters is currently and for the foreseeable future, choosing to stay at home with their children, so not taxable anyway, marriage is no advantage to them as a family.

eviltwin

I got married for tax reasons. I know this view won't be popular in the wedding forum but I don't see a value in marriage. You either love someone or you don't. You are either committed or your not.

One eyed Jack

Faith wrote: »

But I guess it's often easier for a non-religious person to agree to a religious wedding, then it is for a religious person to agree to a secular ceremony.

Meh, not necessarily, the reason my wife and I agreed on a registry office ceremony was because neither of us were into the whole idea of the pomp and circumstance involved with a church wedding. I've been to far more church weddings than civil ceremonies in the last couple of years. The civil ceremonies were couples in their 30's, and the church ceremonies were couples in their 20's.

How religious or not the couples were is anyone's guess tbh. It was sometimes just a matter of practicality, pragmatism, affordability, or particularly in my own case I didn't have any of my family members there, so it was just my wife's family on her side, would've made for a very empty church, which would've been a bit sad :pac:

meeeeh

Two couples among my friends got married in church where only one of the partners got married. But where I come from the civil bit has to be done anyway separately regardless what else you opt for.

Most weddings I've been to had some sort religious ceremony. Irish were all religions and where I come from cohabiting is equalized in law so a lot don't bother.

intheclouds

eviltwin wrote: »

I got married for tax reasons. I know this view won't be popular in the wedding forum but I don't see a value in marriage. You either love someone or you don't. You are either committed or your not.

Well that IS the value isn't it? Tax, inheritance, next of kin....

Is it supposed to be about something else?

lazygal

haveringchick wrote: »

Yes you believe, you feel, marriage was, is , the best domestic arrangement for you and your OH
Others, my brother and his OH for example, believe that with the divorce rate at 52% in the country they are currently residing in, and as the mother of his soon to be 2 daughters is currently and for the foreseeable future, choosing to stay at home with their children, so not taxable anyway, marriage is no advantage to them as a family.

That doesn't mean you "believe" in marriage or not. If it's advantageous to get married then do it. If its of no benefit don't. It was a numbers and legal game for us,nothing to do with our "believing" in marriage as some sort of belief system.

lazygal

eviltwin wrote: »

I got married for tax reasons. I know this view won't be popular in the wedding forum but I don't see a value in marriage. You either love someone or you don't. You are either committed or your not.

We were in with our solicitor recently. He gets couples all the time wanting to draw up complicated agreements regarding inheritance,children or other stuff. He says he's worn out just telling them to get married, its way cheaper and less complicated and open to challenge than big contracts about their relationship. There's a perception that marriage is just a piece of paper or isn't necessarily important but there's no easier way of making life less complicated with a serious life partner than getting married. You don't need any frills or parties to get married.

Gatica

We were the only wedding I know of in Ireland that wasn't religious. Went to 1 more in the US that also wasn't. However, from reading it in the papers before I'd have thought it would be somewhere in the region of 70:30 for Catholic/Protestant:non-christian. Obviously from the dozen of weddings I've been to, that's not my experience.

Keane2baMused wrote: »

That's completely not the case. Many couples opt for civil regisration now and not because they have been married before! That's quite an insular view.

I believe haveringchick was talking about their own experience, not much they can do about that:

haveringchick wrote: »

I think the "official " figures are 80/20 but for me it's 90/10 and the only "registry office " dos are those where one of the parties has been married before and hasn't got a church annulment

PhoenixParker wrote: »

This is a little disingenuous, you always have to go to the registry office first to give notice whatever flavour of ceremony you're having. What they mean is they can perform the legal ceremony which a celebrant can't.

I don't think that it's trying to imply you don't have to ever go to a registry office to marry through solemnisers.

If you’re considering this for your own wedding, there is an important distinction between a “solemniser” and a “celebrant”. Solemniser is the legal term for the 5,627 people licensed by the State to conduct weddings. Apart from 107 civil registrars around the country, they include 5,506 religious in three main groups, Humanists, Spiritualists and Interfaith, charging anything from €350 to €500, plus expenses. They can solemnise weddings, which means you don’t have to go to the registry office first.

Irish Times is just saying that the wedding ceremony can be done fully by the said denomination without going the the registry office first (like they have to in France, for example) and then doing the religious ceremony after. That is what would need to be done by someone using a Celebrant, they'd have to go to the registry office first to do a legal wedding before they'd be legally married (I'm sure whether before or after the celebrant wedding, doesn't really matter).

Princess Peach

We are having a non religious, religious ceremony

Civil registrar wasn't available in our date, so we have a Christian pastor marrying us in our hotel venue, but in a kind of celtic style ceremony as he is very flexible on the level of religion we want in the service.