Kidney Stones

Dudley Smith

I just kidney stones for the first time in my life (44 year old man) which was the most pain I have ever suffered I think. The stones were actually small 3-4 mm so 2 L of water a day, lemon drinks, apple cider vinegar, NSAIDs and alpha-blockers finally got rid of them judging by X-ray and CT. My problem is I still have lower back pain which is referred through my groin and right thigh.

Have had to take 10 days off work with it over the last 5 weeks and seen two urologists who, perhaps not unsurprisingly, agree in parts but not in others. Presently taking levofloxacin (500 mg) for 10 days based on the assumption it is chronic prostatitis.

Had a massage yesterday and felt good then trouble walking again today. Very worrying. I know medical advice is verboten but any suggestions from people who have experienced kidney stones and whether the pain lingers or anything similar would be deeply appreciated. I am in a foreign country too which doesn't help so much. The docs told me once the stones are gone should be pain free but there seems to be anecdotes on various sites saying folk have had lingering pain afterwards.

Many thanks in advance.

joeprivate

Have you looked at what food your are eating ?
Did any of the experts you met ask or advise about the food you eat?
Has your food choices changed since you moved country?

veganrun

I had kidney stones about a year ago, 5 in total apparently. You are right about the pain, like nothing I've ever had or want again.

I haven't had lingering back pain but a few weeks after I passed what I thought was my last stone I started getting groin pain, like everything tightening up. It would come in waves every few days. This went on for a few weeks then all of a sudden another kidney stone came out, after which the pain stopped.

Go back to the doctor if it's not getting better.

Dudley Smith

Many thanks for your reply joe. Yes, since I moved my diet has changed as have lunch with Japanese colleagues every day. My family all started taking vitamin C too as we were getting lots of colds (our son is in kindergarten here). Vitamin C in megadoses can lead to rapid kidney stone formation apparently as the ascorbic acid is broken down to oxalic acid and calcium oxalate are what 80% of the stones are composed of,

Probably was a cumulative thing though but I am about 75 kg and run 5 k regularly so it was a shock. On the levofloxacin now and only eating porridge and banana in the morning as it just stops appetite which is a known side effect and an odd sensation.

The doctors said less beer - I drink very rarely now the last few years (once every 2-3 months) and never at home.
Don't sit down so much - My work involves writing so this is an issue.

Less protein is meant to be the best option longer term and the advice also includes avoiding dark, leafy vegetables to avoid oxalate-rich foodstuffs which is a bit confusing.

Dudley Smith

Many thanks veganrun.

Yes, the testicle pain is something else but I have to go back to work now so will have to take the painkillers and grin and bear it.

They say if you have them then you have a 50% chance of another bout in 5 years. Less animal protein is advised so you should be in a good place judging by your username.

joeprivate

Too Much Vegetable Protein Is Harmful Too

A 2007 review published in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association concluded: “long-term consumption of high protein diets composed of either predominately animal or vegetable protein, by persons with normal kidney function may cause kidney injury and both animal and vegetable protein accelerates the progression of chronic kidney disease.”Bernstein AM, Treyzon L, Li Z. Are high-protein, vegetable-based diets safe for kidney function? A review of the literature. J Am Diet Assoc. 2007 Apr;107(4):644-50.

This advice to limit vegetable protein, too, was once a matter of avoiding beans, peas and lentils, including soy beans. However, today’s markets are filled with “kidney toxic protein” made of predominately isolated soy proteins. “Vegetarian” burgers, hot dogs, luncheon meats, sausages, candy bars, shakes, and cheeses are foods gravitated to by people looking into a healthier diet. But, these “fake” foods are in fact unhealthy; made of an unbalanced hodge-podge of ingredients. They are usually deficient in natural dietary fibers, carbohydrates, vitamins, minerals and other phytochemicals. The isolated soy protein causes large quantities of calcium to be lost from the body; resulting in bone loss and kidney stones. These proteins also dramatically increase the production of growth hormone (IGF-1), which is known to promote cancer growth.

Best of luck

ardinn

I have had 8 bouts of Kidney stones - Never once was I given anything other than pain killers in the hospital - the longest was 10 days in, after which they were blasted, 2 days later they passed and I was out.

One thing I notice with mine is I can immediately tell when they have passed - it is INSTANT relief for me - I literally get up from the ball im in crying like a girl and go "ok thats over - whats for dinner" If you have lingering pain you still have stones, OR you have damage to the kidney-bladder tube caused by the passing.

Water and lots of it to flush out when struck, but regards diet, its a lottery as to how your body absorbs and deals with calcium so whatever works for you may not work for others and vice versa.

Ball pain is a er, pain? but normal with Kidney stones and nothing to worry about - I will say if it happens again and you are not passing them the best way is to - er - you know!! Shake it out - if it has passed into the bladder and not moving further then that will move it along

The only effects afterwards I have had was after vigorous sexual activity, during passing I apparently tore the inside of my urethra and have ruptured that a few times - resulting in very hard to explain situations :O

veganrun

It's hard to know what to eat and not eat. I think the general recommendation is to avoid high oxalate foods such as spinach and drink plenty of water. When I was in A&E the first time the doctor who treated me had kidney stones himself. He said to avoid nuts and fizzy drinks. A few days later I ended up back in A&E and they admitted me that night and the next day they took some of them out. When I was in the ward the guy in the bed beside me was in for kidney stones too. He told me he didn't drink but loved coke and drank lots of it which seemed consistent with what the doctor told me. I was also eating lots of nuts before this happened and was consuming lots of spinach in the form of juices.

I was trying to move plant based/vegan anyway so I've adjusted my diet more and tried to drink more water. I passed my last stone a year ago and have been OK since touch wood. However I'm very paranoid about getting more, especially if I get any twitch or twinge of pain around my kidney area.

To be honest my diet was awful and I was probably not drinking enough water so I guess it wasn't a surprise really I got them.

You know the saying "a fast flowing river gathers little silt"