An Irish Carbonara by any other name...

Tree

So it's clear that what passes for Carbonara in Ireland, is not a traditional carbonara by a long shot. It's still a tasty dish.

Rather than convince us to stop adding cream, onions, chicken, peas, and so on, to cremated lardons and pasta, how about we figure out what it's proper name should be?

Clearly carbonara on a menu in Ireland is recognisably something that definitely contains pasta and bacon, but is likely to also have cream or mushrooms (seriously folks, who sneaks these in there). Should we find a new name for it? Or should we just insist on calling it Irish carbonara? Apart from the obvious languages evolves, and cooking evolves, and local country that produces a lot of dairy adds cream to everything...

[as I type this, I have a bowl of pasta shells covered in caramelised onions and lardons, chicken, cream, black pepper, peas, and parmesan]

Toto Wolfcastle

I have nothing really to add other than that this has just reminded me that I had a dream last night that I was in an episode of Agents of SHIELD and Jamie Oliver was there too and his secret power was that he added cream to his carbonara.

IvyTheTerrible

When I make it, I call it bastardised carbonara, but I suppose no-one would put that on a menu!

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Creamy pasta with chicken and bacon???

fred funk }{

Who cares if it's made with cream and mushrooms ? If that's what the person cooking it wants and like then so be it.

To me, it stinks of snobbery and I really don't understand how it annoys someone that much to start a thread about it. For the record I prefer it without cream and made the traditional way with egg yokes.

MissFlitworth

Would imagine thread started, in lighthearted way, as 'what is carbonara/shepherds pie/irish stew/coddle is a constant topic for debate round these parts/anywhere people talk about food Rather than out of snobbery or annoyance.

Have spent way more time than I'd like to admit to trying to think of a name for Irish carbonara today! Carboneire is the best I could come up with

Minder

May as well call it 'Feck off with your Carbonara' since it's anything but. Difficult to label the alternatives, since there are so many variations.

Toto Wolfcastle

I was reading a menu recently that had carbonara (with cream) listed under 'Traditional Irish Favourites'.

I've had proper carbonara in Italy and I've had awful carbonara with cream in Italy but if I see carbonara with cream on a menu in Ireland I'll often go for it because I love creamy sauces. I'm under no illusions that it's the way carbonara is supposed to be but as long as the food is tasty and the description is accurate I don't care.

Calling it carboneire is genius though. Miss Flitworth for president!

anothernight

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Who cares if it's made with cream and mushrooms ? If that's what the person cooking it wants and like then so be it.

To me, it stinks of snobbery and I really don't understand how it annoys someone that much to start a thread about it. For the record I prefer it without cream and made the traditional way with egg yokes.

Too true. I make a great paella, only I make it with pasta. And no seafood. Oh and it's got a creamy sauce. But yeah, I'll continue calling it paella because I'm the person cooking it and so be it.



Carboneire! I like it.

Dinkie

Another vote for carbonneire

I add crumbled black pudding into mine. I tend to leave out the cream and just use the traditional egg version. However, Thats mainly because I never have cream in the fridge.

Also sometimes make a 'salmon carbonara'

the beer revolu

anothernight wrote: »

Too true. I make a great paella, only I make it with pasta. And no seafood. Oh and it's got a creamy sauce. But yeah, I'll continue calling it paella because I'm the person cooking it and so be it.



Carboneire! I like it.

Why bother with names for dishes at all if one can substitute any or all of the ingredients. Why not just call all dishes paella or carbonara irrespective of the ingredients or process?

anothernight

the beer revolu wrote: »

Why bother with names for dishes at all if one can substitute any or all of the ingredients. Why not just call all dishes paella or carbonara irrespective of the ingredients or process?

Seriously? Your sarcasm detector is broken, I take it. :P

PLL

If it's renamed it'll confuse people. It's only the bare minimum of people like yourselves that know what carbonara actually is. Here it will always be in the cream dish. Even the Italian restaurants make it the way it is loved here.

In the same way Tikka Masala and other Indian dishes were westernised for our palette.

Walter Sobchak III

"I can"t believe its not Carbonara"?

Dizzyblonde

Celtic Carbonara! That way we could add anything we liked...... throw in a bit of cabbage with the bacon :eek:

Italy would probably declare war on us

nosietoes

PLL wrote: »

In the same way Tikka Masala and other Indian dishes were westernised for our palette.

The most likely origin of tikka masala is British so...

And our 'carbonara' is really closer to an Alfredo sauce

JackHeuston

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

Italy would probably declare war on us

Your actions have already been noticed.

(and will be reported to the authorities)

Taboola

Another vote for Carboneire. I like traditional carbonara and the Irish version of it. Sometimes I just want a richer creamier dish and Carboneire is great for that.

enda1

Traditional carbonara is way richer than the version ye're all on about. Btw

Neyite

I've had Lasagne made with seafood, or vegetarian versions. It's still called Lasagne.

My Spag bol would make an Italian cry, because in a desperate bid to stealthily get veggies into my boys, I now put finely diced carrots and lentils in it. When I'm satisfied that they are actually eating a bit more fruit and veg and we have successfully avoided the threat of scurvy in the house, then I'll omit the carrots. The lentils in it are lovely though (never thought I'd say that about lentils.)

I make Carboneire. I know its not Carbonara, I've tasted the real thing in its homeland. But it's still nice. I've never heard of it with peas though. I was initially like "whaaaat??" but if I can get veg into a meal (see above re: Scurvy) then I'm game.

enda1

^
Carrot is in a tradition Bolognese ragu, so no need to get rid of it at all!

Neyite

Excellent news. :P

Dial Hard

Neyite wrote: »

I've had Lasagne made with seafood, or vegetarian versions. It's still called Lasagne.

The name lasagna just refers to the type of pasta used as opposed to the filling, though. Unlike carbonara, which refers specifically to the sauce.

A friend of mine once asked for a carbonara without the cream in a restaurant and they refused. Wtf, like, it's easier to make it without the cream than with.

enda1

Dial Hard wrote: »

The name lasagna just refers to the type of pasta used as opposed to the filling, though. Unlike carbonara, which refers specifically to the sauce.

A friend of mine once asked for a carbonara without the cream in a restaurant and they refused. Wtf, like, it's easier to make it without the cream than with.

Maybe they had a pre-made batch of the mystery sauce. Wouldn't surprise me!

Dial Hard

enda1 wrote: »

Maybe they had a pre-made batch of the mystery sauce. Wouldn't surprise me!

Wouldn't surprise me either but still, it would have taken them all of 5 minutes to just whip up a real one for her.

the beer revolu

anothernight wrote: »

Seriously? Your sarcasm detector is broken, I take it. :P

It was away being serviced over the weekend, all fixed now.

Although, given some of the arguments I've had here over naming dishes, nothing surprises me any more.

To Elland Back

Carbon Arrah go on, sure you'll have some more

rubadub

Don't name it, just describe what's in it and it shuts the ridiot pedants up and lets those genuinely interested know what is in it. I find some who ask "what are you cooking" are just itching for an argument so I say nothing at all, say "I have no idea what it's called, but it's made from", sometimes pisses them off by denying them a good argument, if I am unsure if they are looking for an argument I would say "some might calll it XYZ, but I know some idiots would get upset over that...". You can usually tell by the tone they use, don't give them the satisfaction.

That's not real blah blah blah, --yeah, nobody gives a damn, most already know too...

The OP is still seemingly undecided anyway with the comment about mushrooms.

pwurple

Dial Hard wrote: »

Wouldn't surprise me either but still, it would have taken them all of 5 minutes to just whip up a real one for her.

... They didn't know how maybe.

I was on a "cookery course" where they did a carbonara with no eggs or cheese. Cream, mushrooms, rashers and peas. From a qualified chef.

Billy86

Carb O'Nara? Carb O'Meara? I'll be leaving. I'm so sorry.

ezra_pound

Mianadóra

Or

Mianadóra uachtarach

ezra_pound

Dial Hard wrote: »

The name lasagna just refers to the type of pasta used as opposed to the filling, though. Unlike carbonara, which refers specifically to the sauce.

A friend of mine once asked for a carbonara without the cream in a restaurant and they refused. Wtf, like, it's easier to make it without the cream than with.

Carbonara does not refer to the sauce.

Dial Hard

ezra_pound wrote:

Carbonara does not refer to the sauce.

Yes it does.

There's no consensus on where the name came from (coal-fired braziers on which the bacon was cooked, etc) but the name absolutely refers to the sauce as opposed to the pasta. What do you suggest it refers to?

ezra_pound

Dial Hard wrote: »

Yes it does.

There's no consensus on where the name came from (coal-fired braziers on which the bacon was cooked, etc) but the name absolutely refers to the sauce as opposed to the pasta. What do you suggest it refers to?

It refers to the entire dish not to the sauce. There isn't really a sauce as such anyway.

ezra_pound

Dial Hard wrote: »

Yes it does.

There's no consensus on where the name came from (coal-fired braziers on which the bacon was cooked, etc) but the name absolutely refers to the sauce as opposed to the pasta. What do you suggest it refers to?

No.

Carbonara (Italian: [karboˈnaːra]) is an Italian pasta dish from Rome[1][2] based on eggs, cheese (Pecorino Romano or Parmigiano-Reggiano),[1] bacon (guanciale or pancetta), and black pepper. Spaghetti is usually used as the pasta; however, fettuccine, rigatoni, linguine or bucatini can also be used. The dish was created in the middle of the 20th century.

It's a dish not a sauce.

Dial Hard

ezra_pound wrote:

Carbonara (Italian: [karboˈnaËra]) is an Italian pasta dish from Rome[1][2] based on eggs, cheese (Pecorino Romano or Parmigiano-Reggiano),[1] bacon (guanciale or pancetta), and black pepper. Spaghetti is usually used as the pasta; however, fettuccine, rigatoni, linguine or bucatini can also be used. The dish was created in the middle of the 20th century.

It's a dish not a sauce.

So if the pasta isn't prescribed then the sauce (such as it is) is the defining factor. Which is exactly what I said.

ezra_pound

Dial Hard wrote: »

So if the pasta isn't prescribed then the sauce (such as it is) is the defining factor. Which is exactly what I said.

Carbonara is not a sauce. It is a dish.

ezra_pound

The sauce is literally pasta water and egg so I can't see how that defines the dish. The dish is the entirety.

keane2097

rubadub wrote: »

Don't name it, just describe what's in it and it shuts the ridiot pedants up and lets those genuinely interested know what is in it. I find some who ask "what are you cooking" are just itching for an argument so I say nothing at all, say "I have no idea what it's called, but it's made from", sometimes pisses them off by denying them a good argument, if I am unsure if they are looking for an argument I would say "some might calll it XYZ, but I know some idiots would get upset over that...". You can usually tell by the tone they use, don't give them the satisfaction.

That's not real blah blah blah, --yeah, nobody gives a damn, most already know too...

The OP is still seemingly undecided anyway with the comment about mushrooms.

Do you invite ezra pound into your kitchen regularly?

Arkady

It's a bit like "chinese" dishes like General Tso's chicken and Chicken Chop Suey.
I think it should be called Pasta Kilnascully. Much more appropriate.
Not the real thing, but no one really cares because it's tasty.