Boiler in Sitting Room?

Tar.Aldarion

Hi, just wondering if anybody has had a similar situation. We used to have hot water at all times in our apartment supplied from somewhere else in the building, and gas to heat the radiators when we wanted. Gas meter was in a storage closet in the sitting room.
There was a fire in the apartment block and so the water/heating was gone for 6 weeks. Let the lads work away in the apartment and discovered we now were going to have a boiler in this sitting room closet.

Asked would it be loud? "No no, maybe turn off the pump at night". So anyway I come back last night and it's all done. Our gas meter is gone, we have a boiler with a new control system, and three on /off switches in the closet (no idea how to use it yet).

Now the situation is that I won't have hot water until I put on the immersion etc, which is a pain enough as it is when you are used to hot water 24/7. The real problem is that the boiler is so freaking loud whenever anybody uses a tap or the shower or the toilet, and it is right in the sitting room.

The pump/water will go mad for a while after. Anybody else have a boiler practically in their living area like this? Seriously puts me off the place. The gas meter is gone now, so everything must go through this electric boiler instead? Not sure how it even works, we were told nothing.

The final problem is things like the shower have much less pressure now too, which is ****. I'm not sure how the toilet is affected but we flushed it like five times today and it wouldn't flush away, maybe it's taking longer to fill the cistern or something? All seems a balls really.

Gumbo

The gas boiler shouldn't make noise when you use taps etc????
Can you post a picture of what you have now?

Did they fit a Carbon Monoxide alarm for you?

Tar.Aldarion

The gas boiler is gone now I believe, and the meter. No alarm that I can remember. Here are some pictures (that room was for storage so that is annoying too, no room there now!):


Boiler being installed, that is the couch on the left so you can see it's pretty damn close to where you are sitting.



One of the on/off switches, don't have a bath. I imagine this is the immersion.




Controls, heat boost is on in the top right and that works fine, radiators come on. On the top left is the tap boost symbol, we tried that out and it didn't seem to warm anything.

Butters1979

That is a big ass boiler for an apartment. It's an electric boiler.

It sounds like all apartments used to get their water from a central water and heating system in the building but they have now created isolated systems. As a result you need a pump to create water pressure as the system cannot use gravity. We used to have one in our apartment but the pump was much smaller. That's really awkward but I don't think there's anything against regulations there.

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah what you describe sounds spot on. it seems gigantic to me for a one bedroom apartment. Noise from it is ridiculous due to the pump. Like if I went into an apartment and saw that I wouldn't want to move there, but I'm here already so...

When it was a central system also I didn't really have to pay anything for hot water. Now I will be paying electricity to power this monstrosity.

Michael D Not Higgins

BTW, bath and sink are the two different elements in the boiler. Sink will be half way down and only heat the top half of the water and bath will be at the bottom and heat the whole boiler.

I'd also suggest looking for a manual online if you didn't get one with the installation so you can figure out the different programmes like setting it to come on half an hour before you wake up so you have water for the morning shower.

seamus

That contraption on the floor to the right of the boiler is the pump. Looks like an exceptionally large pump (and boiler!) for a one-bed apartment, but maybe they just decided to stick the same one in all apartments regardless of size.

One thing to check is whether the pump is resting against anything in particular causing it to be louder than it needs to be. You could then stick something between them to damp the sound.

Maybe also see if you can fit a couple of polystyrene sheets under the pump to dampen the noise against the wooden floor.

Tar.Aldarion

I'll see what we can do about the sound dampening the sound thanks, doesn't seem to be anything it is against, it's just fecking loud and so is the water moving so was a bit shocked by that being installed right in somebodies living area.

The guy installing it said the other apartments they were putting them in (6 apartments are getting them after the fire) had smaller boilers and it was weird that I were getting the biggest boiler in the smallest apartment, but is just doing what he is told.

emeldc

seamus wrote: »

That contraption on the floor to the right of the boiler is the pump. Looks like an exceptionally large pump (and boiler!) for a one-bed apartment, but maybe they just decided to stick the same one in all apartments regardless of size.

One thing to check is whether the pump is resting against anything in particular causing it to be louder than it needs to be. You could then stick something between them to damp the sound.

Maybe also see if you can fit a couple of polystyrene sheets under the pump to dampen the noise against the wooden floor.

Yep, it's a double negative head stuart turner pump. It's needed to pump the water around the appt as there is no gravity pressure. I was going to say the same as you and suggest a cushion or something similar under the pump to get it off the floor.

Paulw

That is a fairly normal setup for an apartment.

The top tank is hot water, the bottom is cold. Usually around 220L and 30L.

The pump will always be the noisy part. You can put something under it to dampen the sound, but it will only be pumping when you are running water. You could put some foam padding around it, but make sure it doesn't overheat when running, especially considering it will be pumping hot water too.

seamus

Just looking at the pictures again - is there no door? Or is that just a "work in progress" picture?

Cos if there's no door, then that's gonna be a major source of pain. Not to mention the heat it'll pump out in the summer. A good solid door on that gap will help a lot with the sound.

Michael D Not Higgins

Oh I also found this manual for your control panel.

http://www.ephcontrols.com/contentFiles/Product-Downloads/11%20-%20R27-HW%20Operating%20Instructions.pdf

Tar.Aldarion

Thanks for the manual will check it out!


That was very much a work in progress pic seamus, door is there now. Needs to be soundproofed

seamus

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

That was very much a work in progress pic seamus, door is there now. Needs to be soundproofed

Do a little bit of research, it may just be a matter of getting some rubber beading to create a draughtproof seal around the edges.

As it's a new-ish looking apartment I would expect the door to be a solid firedoor which should provide a good deal of soundproofing itself. But pinning some styrofoam to the inside of the door can be effective too.

Do a google for cheap and easy soundproofing tips and check with the landlord if he's happy for you to do it.

Marcusm

kceire wrote: »

The gas boiler shouldn't make noise when you use taps etc????
Can you post a picture of what you have now?

Did they fit a Carbon Monoxide alarm for you?

It will if it's a combi boiler and only fires up when a hot tap is opened. I suspect that's they system which has been installed. Frankly I think it's crazy. THere's a block of apartments on the quay in Dublin which had just this set up. It was ready in 2008 so was put up for rent rather than sale. I would have assumed that only a Celtic Tiger development could have considered this an approrpiate siting for a boiler.

Edit: I've now seen the pictures and can see it's the pump. The issue is absolutely the siting of the pump, it's moronic; it will never be silent irrespective of the amount of sound insulation or rubber feet. I'll bet it's a fairly cheap loud pump. Do you own the apartment or rent? If I owned, I would never have allowed that siting of the service room.

Nekarsulm

There is no gas boiler. That's just another type of immersion heater. With a built in cold water tank. In a standalone house you would have a water tank in the attic. App. has no attic, thus the side of the new unit.

ted1

Get them to change the immersion switch it should be programmable and have boost features , that switch is something from the 60
Also regulations don't let the cable just hang out if it .

I'm sure planning permission would have insisted on storage space which would mean that you no longer wet this criteria

Tar.Aldarion

The switch is ridiculous. Also when I press the tap boost symbol is seems to heat nothing, have to use the immersion manually to have hot water.

Yeah, there is essentially no storage now, all the stuff we took out of that closet has nowhere to go...

Tar.Aldarion

Marcusm wrote: »

It will if it's a combi boiler and only fires up when a hot tap is opened. I suspect that's they system which has been installed. Frankly I think it's crazy. THere's a block of apartments on the quay in Dublin which had just this set up. It was ready in 2008 so was put up for rent rather than sale. I would have assumed that only a Celtic Tiger development could have considered this an approrpiate siting for a boiler.

Edit: I've now seen the pictures and can see it's the pump. The issue is absolutely the siting of the pump, it's moronic; it will never be silent irrespective of the amount of sound insulation or rubber feet. I'll bet it's a fairly cheap loud pump. Do you own the apartment or rent? If I owned, I would never have allowed that siting of the service room.

Just renting, no say in it, had no idea what was even being done really as the estate agents don't seem to tell us when we ask these things. Was waiting on it for a month too..

ted1

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The switch is ridiculous. Also when I press the tap boost symbol is seems to heat nothing, have to use the immersion manually to have hot water.

Yeah, there is essentially no storage now, all the stuff we took out of that closet has nowhere to go...

The tap boost won't work because there's s separate switch. I'd question the level of qualifications and intelligence of the person who designed the new system.

TheChizler

Where does the water for your radiators come from? Is that part still communal?

I have a nearly identical tank, immersion and control panel. The panel is very easy to use. There is a switch that you flick to program to set the timers, press ok or select to move between start and finish times, of which there are 3 pairs per day. Press boost button for it to come on for an hour, twice for two hours, and advance to come on until the next programmed time.

The immersion and hot water storage talk is actually on the bottom in the pic (you can see the cover for the elements and thermostat), with cold water storage talk on top to create some pressure, but not much so you have the pump as well.

Edit: looking at the picture again the hot water storage talk is definitely plumbed to take its heat source from an external heating system. Can you let the water go cold, press boost for an hour and see do any of the pipes in the closet get warm? Or do you get hot water? It might take a minute for the hot water to reach your tap from the tank. There are two motorised valves on the flow coming from the white box on the top left, you sure this isn't a gas boiler? If they're using an electric heater for space heating then that's going to work out very expensive.

johnnyskeleton

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Yeah what you describe sounds spot on. it seems gigantic to me for a one bedroom apartment. Noise from it is ridiculous due to the pump. Like if I went into an apartment and saw that I wouldn't want to move there, but I'm here already so...

When it was a central system also I didn't really have to pay anything for hot water. Now I will be paying electricity to power this monstrosity.

Are you renting? Is the lease nearly up or are you on pt 4? If so, my advice is simple - move.

You now have a significantly smaller apartment with an extra expense and noise which isnt great. But what would be fatal for me anyway is the inconvenience. Not being able to have hot water at the ready when you wake up, or a good modern shower pressure would be really irritating.

_Kaiser_

I have something similar in my place - although thankfully it's at the end of the hall rather than in the sitting room. The pump is extremely noisy as well (I can't even flush a toilet after 11 because it's so bad), but also seems to have some fault where it kicks on and off every few seconds when running a cold tap or flushing the aforementioned toilet (also randomly kicks on for a few seconds overnight). The boiler controls don't seem to work consistently either - "water only" only works sometimes.

The EA sent out a "plumber" when I moved in to have a look but these 2 lads hadn't a breeze, tinkered with the setup for 20 mins and that was that. I never bothered calling them back but if it wasn't for the location and relatively low cost I'd have also long since gone.

faceman

I had a very similar boiler when I lived in a 1 bed apartment. The large pump was necessary as I lived on 4th floor. Incidentally I also had a seperate gas boiler!

That being said the boiler was not in a living area but in the hall. Quite unusual I would imagine to have it in the living room. It's going to be noisy in the sitting room and sound proofing will only do so much.

K.Flyer

First things first.
What you have is a Combination Water Storage Tank, very common in apartments.
The Top section is your Cold Water storage tank and the Lower section is your Hot Water storage with an average water volume of 220 litres cold and 120 litres hot.
The top cold section is filled from the mains water supply and the top section in turn feeds the lower section. And both supply the water To the pump.
Because they are floor standing there is no height to provide a gravity fall for decent pressure so a pump is fitted. Your system has been fitted with a Stuart Turner Negative Head pump. This is what provides the pressure of water to taps and showers etc. It can be switched off and left off and switched back on for showers if you prefer.But it shouldn't be very noisey, generally they are very quiet.
Looking at your hot tank there are two immersion elements fitted, they are the two grey metal capped items.
Your bath / sink switch controls these water heating elements.
By selecting Bath, it heats the full volume of water in the hot section, but this could take up to a few hours from cold.
By selecting Sink, it will heat the top 30% of the hot section, and could take an hour. Enough for one quick shower. It would be preferred that there was a seperate timer fitted for these.
There does not appear to be any electric cables connected between the switch and the heating elements at least none to the top element, so you could be waiting a long time for hot water using the sink / bath switch.
Next..
There are two pipes connected to the left of the hot water section. These are the connections used from the central heating system to heat the water. This is controlled by the EPH time controller and connected to the yellow zone valve on the pipes.
You have two yellow zone valves, one controls the hot water (the one to the righr), the other for the heating of the radiators and both should be activated when you use the EPH controller.
Is there no Cable going to the right hand yellow boxe ?? I cannot see any. It would explain no hot water when you press the button on the timer :rolleyes:
The installer should have explained the system controls.
If there are no cables to yellow boxes or the heating elements, then the work is not finished properly nor operating correctly.
One alarming thing I have noticed is that your apartment is at risk of flooding!!
The white connection at the top of the tank to the left of the small copper pipe (which is the water mains supply to the tank) is not connected to anything, it should be connected to the overflow pipe.
If the filling valve fails and overfills the tank the excess water needs to be taken away by the overflow pipe, you do not appear to have one!

You should get onto whoever sanctioned this work and have them back to finish the job and explain and demonstrate how this all works.

Sorry for the long post but I hope it helps you understand it all a bit better.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »