Best way to heat.

tom_tarbucket

Hello.

I live in a 5 bedroomed 2 storey house so can be tricky enough to heat.

Main heating system is oil.
Have 2 children under 3 - and a wife at home all day so house needs to be warm.

What is the best way to use the oil on a very cold day without breaking the bank ?

1. Turn it on at a high temperature and only put on for an hour at a time a few times a day.

2. Medium temperature and turn on for longer periods.

3. Just leave on all the time at the lowest temperature.

I've heard in relation to number 3 that it may sound silly but it is in fact a good way to heat the house and is kind of efficient - or am I talking complete rubbish.

roy rodgers

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Hello.

I live in a 5 bedroomed 2 storey house so can be tricky enough to heat.

Main heating system is oil.
Have 2 children under 3 - and a wife at home all day so house needs to be warm.

What is the best way to use the oil on a very cold day without breaking the bank ?

1. Turn it on at a high temperature and only put on for an hour at a time a few times a day.

2. Medium temperature and turn on for longer periods.

3. Just leave on all the time at the lowest temperature.

I've heard in relation to number 3 that it may sound silly but it is in fact a good way to heat the house and is kind of efficient - or am I talking complete rubbish.

You probably need to break the your heating into separate zones. One for water one for downstairs heating and the other for up stairs heating as a minimum. Each zone would be controlled by a room thermostat so you would be able to heat an area that you want to heat and the room stat would cut in and out to keep the house at an even temperature
There is grants available to help to cover the cost of this works

tom_tarbucket

roy rodgers wrote: »

You probably need to break the your heating into separate zones. One for water one for downstairs heating and the other for up stairs heating as a minimum. Each zone would be controlled by a room thermostat so you would be able to heat an area that you want to heat and the room stat would cut in and out to keep the house at an even temperature
There is grants available to help to cover the cost of this works

Thanks. But before getting in to zones etc. Does number 3 make sense ?

MicktheMan

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Thanks. But before getting in to zones etc. Does number 3 make sense ?

Depends...What thermal mass have you and how good is your airtightness.
For example:
My heating is "on" from 6am to midnight and yet burn oil for 2-2.5 hours per day this time of the year. It is controlled by a room stat (digital) set to 20 degC during the "on" period. House is 211m2, has high thermal mass and good airtightness.
I'm pretty sure that if I had a thermally light house with poor air tightness I could easily burn 4 to 5 times this amount of oil for similar internal temperatures.

Wearb

Thermal mass will not reduce heating costs. It would just take longer to heat and to cool. Insulation and air tightness will reduce costs.

Anyone could increase thermal mass by putting a few big rocks on the floor, but that wouldn't in itself reduce your costs.

Op, when you you speak of turning down heating, are you talking boiler stat or room stat?

tom_tarbucket

MicktheMan wrote: »

Depends...What thermal mass have you and how good is your airtightness.
For example:
My heating is "on" from 6am to midnight and yet burn oil for 2-2.5 hours per day this time of the year. It is controlled by a room stat (digital) set to 20 degC during the "on" period. House is 211m2, has high thermal mass and good airtightness.
I'm pretty sure that if I had a thermally light house with poor air tightness I could easily burn 4 to 5 times this amount of oil for similar internal temperatures.

I know what you mean. But that is a project for before next winter so just wondering about high level for the "right now "

I don't even know what thermal mass means

But the house would not be great from an air tightness etc point my of view.

loyatemu

when you turn off the heating, does the house feel cold again fairly quickly? If so no. 3 is probably not a great plan as the boiler will be running a lot. Put on a jumper

Markcheese

Can you do basic draught proofing ..attic hatch, unused chimneys, letter boxes . (not blocking vents though) , if you can pick up a few digital timer thermostatic rad valves ,(they had them cheapish in lidl recently,) at least you wont be heating unused rooms, ordinary thermostatic valves for the constantly used rooms... its a start.

freddyuk

Wet the back of your hand and go round windows, doors, letterboxes and even keyholes. You will feel the cold draughts and know where to put some sponge draught proofing which is a cheap way to stop heat loss.

MicktheMan

Wearb wrote: »

Thermal mass will not reduce heating costs. It would just take longer to heat and to cool. Insulation and air tightness will reduce costs.

Anyone could increase thermal mass by putting a few big rocks on the floor, but that wouldn't in itself reduce your costs.

Where did I suggest that thermal mass would reduce heating costs?
The OP asked which heating regime might suit his situation best. Thermal mass in this context is an important factor.

Wearb

MicktheMan wrote: »

Where did I suggest that thermal mass would reduce heating costs?

I'm pretty sure that if I had a thermally light house with poor air tightness I could easily burn 4 to 5 times this amount of oil for similar internal temperatures.

MicktheMan

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

I don't even know what thermal mass means

Thermal mass is the ability of heat storage in the structure of the house. Examples of high thermal mass are concrete floors and walls (not faced with plasterboard). Examples of low thermal mass are timber suspended floors and internally slabbed walls.
A house with high thermal mass is easier to keep at a constant temperature by supplying small amounts of heating over a longer period of time.

MicktheMan

Wearb wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that if I had a thermally light house with poor air tightness I could easily burn 4 to 5 times this amount of oil for similar internal temperatures.

Thermally light + poor air tightness is not the same thing as thermally light on its own.

tom_tarbucket

Wearb wrote: »

Thermal mass will not reduce heating costs. It would just take longer to heat and to cool. Insulation and air tightness will reduce costs.

Anyone could increase thermal mass by putting a few big rocks on the floor, but that wouldn't in itself reduce your costs.

Op, when you you speak of turning down heating, are you talking boiler stat or room stat?

Hi

I'm talking about boiler stat.

tom_tarbucket

Markcheese wrote: »

Can you do basic draught proofing ..attic hatch, unused chimneys, letter boxes . (not blocking vents though) , if you can pick up a few digital timer thermostatic rad valves ,(they had them cheapish in lidl recently,) at least you wont be heating unused rooms, ordinary thermostatic valves for the constantly used rooms... its a start.

Suppose I could. In regard to these thermostatic rad valves - what do they do exactly ?

I have about 12 year old radiators, so not sure if these rad valves would be compatible even.

Wearb

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Hi

I'm talking about boiler stat.

It will not make a great difference to your useage by turning it right down during this cold weather. Boiler will just run oftener trying to get your house up to temperature. It depends on how your radiators were sized for their rooms. In the absence of exact heat loss calculations, I would suggest leaving the boiler thermostat about mid position.

A timer and room stat would improve your efficiency greatly.
Also -as mentioned- TRV's. (I would suggest the more controllable Programmable Rad Valves) These are fitted on the radiators control the water flow through them depending on the room temperature and what they are set at.
During daytime you should try and properly heat the areas in regular use and other areas just enough to prevent dampness.

tom_tarbucket

Just on water flow through radiators and thermostatic rad valves

So going back to basics -- > on standard radiators, we have these twisty knobs, will twisting them half way only allow half the water in to the radiator and therefore only take half the amount of fuel to heat them etc i.e are these old school twisty knobs just doing the same as the thermostatic rad valves - controlling the water flow through the radiators

Or do these twisty knobs just simply turn them on and off and there is no "half way" "three quarter way " etc.

Markcheese

No problem on compatability with the rads - but they wont just sit on your existing rad valves --- half closing your existing rad valves wont do much ...
Thermostatic valves you can set the level of heat for each room (and the timer ones allow you to do the same + set the time they come on ) ,

Wearb

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Just on water flow through radiators and thermostatic rad valves

So going back to basics -- > on standard radiators, we have these twisty knobs, will twisting them half way only allow half the water in to the radiator and therefore only take half the amount of fuel to heat them etc i.e are these old school twisty knobs just doing the same as the thermostatic rad valves - controlling the water flow through the radiators

Or do these twisty knobs just simply turn them on and off and there is no "half way" "three quarter way " etc.

Those knobs will probably only start to influence water flow about a 1/4 or 1/2 rotation from the off position. Experimentation will show what position is best. However it will also reduce the heat produced by the radiator, perhaps resulting in a cold room.

tom_tarbucket

Markcheese wrote: »

No problem on compatability with the rads - but they wont just sit on your existing rad valves --- half closing your existing rad valves wont do much ...
Thermostatic valves you can set the level of heat for each room (and the timer ones allow you to do the same + set the time they come on ) ,

Thanks.

How do you mean " but they wont just sit on your existing rad valves" Do you mean that extra work has to be done to make them fit an dits not just "plug n play"


But is the twisting of the existing knobs not acting like a thermostat - where it controls the flow of water in and out and therefore the temperature ?

loyatemu

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Thanks.

How do you mean " but they wont just sit on your existing rad valves" Do you mean that extra work has to be done to make them fit an dits not just "plug n play"


But is the twisting of the existing knobs not acting like a thermostat - where it controls the flow of water in and out and therefore the temperature ?

they'll just heat up slower. TRVs heat up at the same speed as normal then when the room reaches the right temp they close the valve to turn the radiator off.

If you want the rads to be at a lower temperature all the time, you set that on the boiler.

Markcheese

tom_tarbucket wrote:

How do you mean " but they wont just sit on your existing rad valves" Do you mean that extra work has to be done to make them fit an dits not just "plug n play"

Yeah, it involves changing the entire valve. So probably means draining your system ..

tom_tarbucket

Markcheese wrote: »

Yeah, it involves changing the entire valve. So probably means draining your system ..

****e. Right. How much per rad would this installation cost ?

tom_tarbucket

loyatemu wrote: »

they'll just heat up slower. TRVs heat up at the same speed as normal then when the room reaches the right temp they close the valve to turn the radiator off.

If you want the rads to be at a lower temperature all the time, you set that on the boiler.

Oh ok. So when the heat up to a certain temp, they then mechanically close and then open again when it drops ?

How does it know the temperature, is there some inbuilt thermostat that monitors water temp ?

loyatemu

tom_tarbucket wrote:

How does it know the temperature, is there some inbuilt thermostat that monitors water temp ?

Thermostat monitors the air temperature. Hence "thermostatic" radiator valve.

Markcheese

tom_tarbucket wrote:

Oh ok. So when the heat up to a certain temp, they then mechanically close and then open again when it drops ?

tom_tarbucket wrote:

How does it know the temperature, is there some inbuilt thermostat that monitors water temp ?

Yup , thermostat in the "head" of valve-
Reacts to air temp rather than hot water temp..
I've no idea of the cost, not a difficult job, and shouldnt take too long per rad..

tom_tarbucket

Markcheese wrote: »

Yup , thermostat in the "head" of valve-
Reacts to air temp rather than hot water temp..
I've no idea of the cost, not a difficult job, and shouldnt take too long per rad..

thanks Mark.

If I have a "sealed" system, does that make the job more difficult?