Help! Not sure what to do...

tara m

Hello boards people...

Im looking for help or advice regarding a situation I got myself into. I moved here with my partner in 2012. In early October last year, my partner started giving me a few driving lessons. I have a provisional Uk licence, and a good few lessons under my belt with instructor there.

We went out one evening, and were pulled over at a checkpoint. I was asked if I had a licence, and I said I had, but didnt have it with me.

I was asked to produce my licence within a month to local garda station.

As we got home, I realised how stupid I'd been and to be truthful, I hadn't really thought about the fact i should have applied for an irish provisional driving licence, until then, as it was a sort of spur of the moment thing to rekindle my learning before i started booking lessons etc here.

I searched house high and low and couldnt locate my licence - now it would have been from way back in 1990 that I got this licence, had several tries to get my UK Full licence, but couldnt afford to keep the lessons going.

And then, I completely forgot about trying to get a copy, or going to the station and explaining my predicament until i received a summons in post today for 24th May.

I am totally scared and not sure what to do, or what will happen. Id really appreciate some advice as to what to do next, or what will happen to me.

L1011

UK provisional licence was never valid here in the first place.

You need to talk to a solicitor as you were driving without a licence.

whippet

you won't get advise here .. it is against the charter.

Speak to a solicitor he or she will give you all the advise you need.

The reality is you are facing charges of driving without a license and driving without insurance (i'm assuming you were not insured as you didn't have a valid license) . Both of which are serious and may (or may not) result in a fairly hefty fine and / or period of disqualification.

tara m

thanks. will follow up with solicitor. A naive and looking back, silly thing to do.

tara m

Anyone any experience of how these things pan out in terms of sentencing?

tara m

Here's the full list of the charges as follows, now i have properly read through the summons and I have calmed down and only broke a few dishes in despair at my stupidity - im just wondering what sentence im looking at if i admit guilt?

Driving without Driving Licence
Failiure to produce valid driving licence / learner permit

Use of Vehicle without NCT Cert - At the time of the stop, the guard never mentioned this as we would have explained that the car had failed the NCT a week previous and we were waiting for the retest a few weeks later which was booked. Have paperwork to support this.

No Insurance (User) - My partner has full insurance and full UK licence, is this to me, or the owner?
Failure to produce insurance -

Valid NCT disc not displayed - see above, it didn't have one as it had failed but we were waiting for retest and the fails had just been fixed day before, have reciepts and paperwork supporting this. Does the NCT part if proved mean this wouldnt go to court or could be settled by fixed penalty?

Thanks for your opinions or experience in these matters, this is just to help me get a bit of sleep tonight at the moment i feel like ive committed serious offences, having a nervopus breakdown and am completely terrified ill go to jail. I have no previous convictions at all, unless they decide to give them out for stupidity.

davo2001

So basically you were driving without insurance, a licence or an NCT.

You need to talk to a solicitor ASAP.

No offence OP, but its people like you that put all our insurance rates up so i hope they throw the book at you.

whomitconcerns

It's not stupidity that's not a crime. It's pure and utter negligence and that is a crime.

Penny Tration

Driving uninsured with no license or nct? You need a solicitor asap

Arbiter of Good Taste

OP, you said you got this provisional licence in 1990. :eek: Please tell me that was a typo. Sure it wouldn't even be legal to drive on that in the UK, never mind over here.

Sorry, but this is complete disregard for the laws of the land and gross negligence.

Get a good solicitor.

Steve

Tara, it's highly unlikely you will go to jail, at most you will get a fine.

People who have stolen cars, drive whilst drugged up to the eyeballs, break into houses and rob stuff and have 100 previous convictions only get a hug and a lollipop in most cases.. It's not as if you were importing Garlic..

Get a good solicitor and a good nights sleep.

tara m

Thanks all for the advice, and I can assure you since that Evening when I realised how out of order my documentation was I haven't been out on the road. It was only the third time we'd been out on public roads, and even bearing in mind we live I the middle of nowhere, it was a wrong decision, I should have stayed practising on our land and farm and done things by the book and I fully accept that. It's unfortunate that a week after the checkpoint incident, I Had a breakdown and for the last few months been battling depression and the PTSD, and today when I got the summons was the first time I actually remembered that I should have gone to station and explained myself properly instead of just leaving it. Which has put me back on the edge. i have contacted a local solicitor and have an appointment this week.

And the garlic? No, they're just miniature apples Judge...

MarkAnthony

Speak to a solicitor, you can do it on the day if you need to but I'd suggest not leaving it until then.

In the meantime, breath, relax, it's very minor. Follow the advice of your solicitor but turn up, apologise and make sure you pay the fine. You won't be looking at prison or anything like that.

I'm not condoning the behaviour of the OP but it's utter nonsense to suggest it's people like the OP who have any appreciable affect insurance premiums. It's middle-ages morons in large German cars who've had their licence for 20+ years in the main who go ploughing into the back of people because they're driving too close or hit people head on - on country roads because the little blue pill was wearing off. Oh and fecking Micra drivers or anyone with a baby on board sticker.

Incidentally I hope all these high horses are being well fed and watered.

whomitconcerns

How the hell can you say it's very minor to drive with no licence or nct or insurance???? How is that highhorse?? If you have no insurance you don't drive there's no exceptions for anyone regardless of circumstances. Sorry for the bluntness op.

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Speak to a solicitor, you can do it on the day if you need to but I'd suggest not leaving it until then.

In the meantime, breath, relax, it's very minor. Follow the advice of your solicitor but turn up, apologise and make sure you pay the fine. You won't be looking at prison or anything like that.

I'm not condoning the behaviour of the OP but it's utter nonsense to suggest it's people like the OP who have any appreciable affect insurance premiums. It's middle-ages morons in large German cars who've had their licence for 20+ years in the main who go ploughing into the back of people because they're driving too close or hit people head on - on country roads because the little blue pill was wearing off. Oh and fecking Micra drivers or anyone with a baby on board sticker.

Incidentally I hope all these high horses are being well fed and watered.

MarkAnthony

whomitconcerns wrote: »

How the hell can you say it's very minor to drive with no licence or nct or insurance???? How is that highhorse?? If you have no insurance you don't drive there's no exceptions for anyone regardless of circumstances. Sorry for the bluntness op.

I usually rate the height of the horse in extraneous question marks.

whomitconcerns

Pure incredulity at the post and advice. But whatever.

MarkAnthony

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Pure incredulity at the post and advice. But whatever.

Ah the witty retort of american youth in sitcoms everywhere.

Look putting aside the ridiculous overuse of punctuation and answering your post seriously; it's a collection of traffic offences, each fairly minor in the grand scheme of things. Combined it's not great but no public interest is served by the OP being locked up or even fined a huge amount. They know they've done wrong and all the punishment needs to do is reinforce that.

As for putting the OP under undue stress over this, that I have more of a problem with. Leaving people with the impression they're going to face a possible custodial sentence because people want to have a rant is at best a bit of a dick move and at worst potentially bloody dangerous if someone is in a vulnerable mental state.

As for the high horse comments, my flippant nature sometimes gets the better of me, it bloody easy in here though sometimes.

SteM

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I usually rate the height of the horse in extraneous question marks.

But you don't answer his questions?

MarkAnthony

SteM wrote: »

But you don't answer his questions?

Click refresh.

NUTLEY BOY

OP the sum total of the possible convictions you face may come to a lot of penalty points and heavy fines.

The insurance issue is actually quite a serious matter as far as road traffic offences are concerned.

In relation to the medical issue(s) you mention you really need to speak to your solicitor and fill them in now about the full background details. You need to do this now to give your solicitor enough time to investigate and prepare adequately for court if the medical issues are of any relevance to the matters of culpability and or mitigation.

Losty Dublin

A bit more than naive and silly, Tara. You know well what you were up to. Get a solicitor and for your own sake, be honest with them

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=87451174

tara m wrote: »

thanks. will follow up with solicitor. A naive and looking back, silly thing to do.

tara m

Blimey, yep that Internet will catch you... In complete honesty, I wrote that in the first person, though my partner was doing, does the driving. Totally honestly. My partner is a quiet sort, and it leaves me to do most of the talking in garages, dealing with the public, finding answers, solutions sort of thing. So I say it died on me, it died,on us. It was just easier to write and ask the questions in first person, it seemed to me at the time. I was probably wishing that I was driving back then but there you go. this probably makes no sense to you, and you can make up your own mind. I am grateful for the advice given. If anything, that historical post serves to document the extreme bad luck we have had since moving here as it was the start of our run of bad luck. We swapped the van for a load of firewood.my partner lost his job because He couldn't get to it via public transport. My uncle lent us some money for the current car after feeling sorry fo us out here in the hills with no transport and no income.

davo2001

And the lies continue.................

whomitconcerns

So 1/2 the people here based on the thanks believe that if you have problems its ok not to have tax/insurance/nct, etc and to drive..(again sorry for the bluntness op), I am not advocating jail like the other poster said, but you should be fined in whatever format that is and you should be given points.

The roads are for all of us, and we all have our own problems. Deal with them or stay off the road.

Kepler 186f

tara m wrote: »

Here's the full list of the charges as follows, now i have properly read through the summons and I have calmed down and only broke a few dishes in despair at my stupidity - im just wondering what sentence im looking at if i admit guilt?

Driving without Driving Licence
Failiure to produce valid driving licence / learner permit

Use of Vehicle without NCT Cert - At the time of the stop, the guard never mentioned this as we would have explained that the car had failed the NCT a week previous and we were waiting for the retest a few weeks later which was booked. Have paperwork to support this.

No Insurance (User) - My partner has full insurance and full UK licence, is this to me, or the owner?
Failure to produce insurance -

Valid NCT disc not displayed - see above, it didn't have one as it had failed but we were waiting for retest and the fails had just been fixed day before, have reciepts and paperwork supporting this. Does the NCT part if proved mean this wouldnt go to court or could be settled by fixed penalty?

Thanks for your opinions or experience in these matters, this is just to help me get a bit of sleep tonight at the moment i feel like ive committed serious offences, having a nervopus breakdown and am completely terrified ill go to jail. I have no previous convictions at all, unless they decide to give them out for stupidity.

A solicitor is the best option to represent you, they will be able to outline all the circumstances clearly to a Judge. These are all fairly serious enough road traffic offences (not criminal offences) but without previous convictions it is highly unlikely you will be imprisoned. You can expect a rather large fine and probable ban from driving for several years.

ollieo

For all the people saying you'll get penalty points - NO LICENCE means you can't get points.

OP I would be surprised if you are not banned off the road for a period of time and fined.

tara m

I did wrong. I accept that. im asking for experience on what will happen with this process. Yes perhaps I'm seeking a bit of sympathy by showing you the miles my shoes have walked that got me Into this predicament. I live in an isolated rural area and have no friends here so wanted to talk to someone or thing in a moment of need. I am being naive again, as the last time I experienced asking for help on the Internet when my dog went missing, someone saw fit to post up a video,of dog baiting so I'm expecting the harsh opinions.

Yep, I read my post about the Peugeot and I come off as grandiose but as I explained, It's just written in the first person as have to do pretty much everything when a problem happens, apart from the driving, sorry if that sounds flippant, my other half finds it hard to communicate here has mild autism and I tend to bear the brunt of finding out how to solve this and that etc. And at that time, van had to be scrapped, swapped,it for some firewood at least, other half lost his job due to no public transport within walking distance and we had no car for a year. Until last July, when my uncle lent us some money for an old bucket which is the car we were in when I was caught. I couldn't and never drove the Peugeot it was manual and I couldn't have managed it. The new car was automatic, so,it was much like the forklift I used to drive in my job in the uk, which, ironically enough, I do have a full current license for.


I was thanking the posters who were able to give me unbiased realistic scenario of what punishment I can expect.

I have been communicating with solicitors this morning, so will accept advice from that area now. If you feel the need to further drive nails through my hands, fill your boots. I envy your ability to live in the black and white of life's trials.

whomitconcerns

I'm sorry for your trouble but who's driving nails in? This is the real world, and no matter how bad your/our troubles are it keeps going and it's not your/our individual right to stop that.

There are no excuses for your offences. You asked a question and got honest answers. In saying that, anyone saying more than a fine and points/ban is talking nonsense.

Dial Hard

ollieo wrote:

For all the people saying you'll get penalty points - NO LICENCE means you can't get points.

Points can still be issued in the absence of a licence and become active if and when that person ever applies for a licence.

vdlounge

hopefully you will get a slap on the wrist

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

getaroom

davo2001 wrote: »

No offence OP, but its people like you that put all our insurance rates up so i hope they throw the book at you.

Thats bullying. The OP Knows what she did was wrong and is upset at the ramifications of same.

A flippant remark could be enough to push someone over the edge.

Dial Hard

getaroom wrote:

Thats bullying. The OP Knows what she did was wrong and is upset at the ramifications of same.

When you post the details of your illegal activity on an internet forum you should be well aware that not all the replies are going to be pleasant.

And nowhere have I seen anything that even approaches "bullying" the OP.

hullaballoo

Kepler 186f wrote: »

A solicitor is the best option to represent you, they will be able to outline all the circumstances clearly to a Judge. These are all fairly serious enough road traffic offences (not criminal offences) but without previous convictions it is highly unlikely you will be imprisoned. You can expect a rather large fine and probable ban from driving for several years.

I don't know where this myth comes from but offences under the Road Traffic Acts are criminal offences. We don't really have any other kinds of offences in this jurisdiction.

It needs to stop now.

Even a parking violation is a criminal offence here.

deni20000

tara m wrote: »

Anyone any experience of how these things pan out in terms of sentencing?

Should be no more than 2 years imprisonment.

Arbiter of Good Taste

getaroom wrote: »

Thats bullying. The OP Knows what she did was wrong and is upset at the ramifications of same.

A flippant remark could be enough to push someone over the edge.

The OP is upset at getting caught.

Kepler 186f

hullaballoo wrote: »

Kepler 186f wrote: »

A solicitor is the best option to represent you, they will be able to outline all the circumstances clearly to a Judge. These are all fairly serious enough road traffic offences (not criminal offences) but without previous convictions it is highly unlikely you will be imprisoned. You can expect a rather large fine and probable ban from driving for several years.

I don't know where this myth comes from but offences under the Road Traffic Acts are criminal offences. We don't really have any other kinds of offences in this jurisdiction.

It needs to stop now.

Even a parking violation is a criminal offence here.

So you reckon for example a Theft which is a criminal offence and is defined under the Criminal Justice Theft and Fraud Offences Act is not different to driving without insurance which is a breach of the Road Traffic Act. Vast differences in seriousness and potential penalties, hence traffic offence and criminal offence (it's in the name)

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Victor

Kepler 186f wrote: »

So you reckon for example a Theft which is a criminal offence and is defined under the Criminal Justice Theft and Fraud Offences Act is not different to driving without insurance which is a breach of the Road Traffic Act. Vast differences in seriousness and potential penalties, hence traffic offence and criminal offence (it's in the name)

Can you name the relevant acts that refer to "traffic offence", because Google can't find them: https://www.google.ie/search?q=isite%3Airishstatutebook.ie&oq=isite%3Airishstatutebook.ie&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.7903j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=isite:irishstatutebook.ie+%22traffic+offence%22

The insurance thing can be much more serious than a theft. There have been recent cases in the courts, where young people have been profoundly injured and will need care for the rest of their lives (which could easily be another 50-70 years). Such situations could normally depend on there being substantial investment income on the amount of the award. However, with interest rates at zero, there is no investment income and consequently, the principal of the award needs to be much larger. http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/9m-for-student-hit-by-bus-30249369.html Are you honestly suggesting €9m isn't more serious than stealing a bottle of wine from a supermarket?

While it may be difficult to determine who an uninsured driver is taking (stealing) from, they are taking.

---

That said, many traffic matters are relatively minor, assuming nobody has been hit or been placed at risk of being hit by a vehicle. Just because granny wasn't actually struck by a vehicle doesn't mean it is OK to terrorise her into being trapped in her home.

Follow most people on their daily trips and you will likely see them committing a bunch of traffic offences. Consequently, there is a social demunition of traffic offences. Because otherwise, the talking classes would have to go around with the label of being criminals. In the legal system, this translates into usually modest penalties.

But they are still criminal offences.

Kepler 186f

Victor wrote: »

Kepler 186f wrote: »

So you reckon for example a Theft which is a criminal offence and is defined under the Criminal Justice Theft and Fraud Offences Act is not different to driving without insurance which is a breach of the Road Traffic Act. Vast differences in seriousness and potential penalties, hence traffic offence and criminal offence (it's in the name)

Can you name the relevant acts that refer to "traffic offence", because Google can't find them:

The insurance thing can be much more serious than a theft. There have been recent cases in the courts, where young people have been profoundly injured and will need care for the rest of their lives (which could easily be another 50-70 years). Such situations could normally depend on there being substantial investment income on the amount of the award. However, with interest rates at zero, there is no investment income and consequently, the principal of the award needs to be much larger. Are you honestly suggesting 9m isn't more serious than stealing a bottle of wine from a supermarket?

While it may be difficult to determine who an uninsured driver is taking (stealing) from, they are taking.

---

That said, many traffic matters are relatively minor, assuming nobody has been hit or been placed at risk of being hit by a vehicle. Just because granny wasn't actually struck by a vehicle doesn't mean it is OK to terrorise her into being trapped in her home.

Follow most people on their daily trips and you will likely see them committing a bunch of traffic offences. Consequently, there is a social demunition of traffic offences. Because otherwise, the talking classes would have to go around with the label of being criminals. In the legal system, this translates into usually modest penalties.

But they are still criminal offences.

Road traffic offences when googled brings up an article from the citizens advice bureau (governmental website) which lists all the different road traffic offences. The different breaches referenced are offences contrary to the Road Traffic Act.
A crime is generally contrary to the Criminal Justice Act is clearly different.
So hypothetically a 70 year old persons insurance lapses and they unknowingly don't renew it. He/ she is prosecuted in Court, is he/ she a CRIMINAL? In my book, No!
Tomato - Tomaaato

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Steve

There are quite a few 'pitchforks' in this thread.

In the spirit of the Legal discussion forum, we can offer opinions on what has happened before and, based on that, what is likely to happen given a set of circumstances.

This forum is not for determining innocence or guilt, nor is it a platform for individuals to spout what the punishment, if any, should be. That is up to a Court of law.
If you don't agree with it then write to a TD.

Kepler 186f

Ide tend to agree with you there Steve

MarkAnthony

whomitconcerns wrote: »

So 1/2 the people here based on the thanks believe that if you have problems its ok not to have tax/insurance/nct, etc and to drive..(again sorry for the bluntness op), I am not advocating jail like the other poster said, but you should be fined in whatever format that is and you should be given points.

The roads are for all of us, and we all have our own problems. Deal with them or stay off the road.

Nuance doesn't seem to be a forte of your posts.

I've not seen anyone in this thread advocating that it's okay to drive without your documents in order, problems or not. One or two, or indeed quite a few, of us seem to think a punishment should fit a crime.

Road traffic offences are minor offences. They're even legally defined as such, hence they're heard in the District Court in front of a Judge only. Now I wasn't invoking the legal definition of the word when I made my previous posts I was referring to the nature of the issue which if you go and sit in a District Court for a day or so you'll see there are much more deserving targets for ones rantings.