"Sure they are all the one god..."

py2006

I hear this from some older folk I occasionally get into the conversation/debate about religion/s and god/s etc. It is difficult to get into any conversation about it as they think any questioning of the nonsensical is nonsense!!

Anyway, is it the arrogance of Catholicism that they assume that those who follow other religions and other gods are actually following the same god as them.

I tried to convey to them that no, that is not the case. If you were born in a different part of the world or a different time in our history you would be following a completely different god and religion.

What do you think?

Pherekydes

Well, from the POV that they believe that one guy made earth, the universe and everything in it, then they are all following the same god.

What god didn't make is the stupid, contradictory, made-up religions.

smacl

py2006 wrote: »

What do you think?

I think the person in question hasn't seen the Hindu pantheon.

Custardpi

If you're talking about the Abrahamic religions - Christianity, Islam & Judaism then yes they are essentially worshipping the same deity. They'd obviously disagree on the exact role played by lesser figures such as angels, prophets etc but there's a huge amount of overlap between them. Those three faiths make up the majority of religious people around the world so it's not entirely wrong to talk about "the one god" in that context, just incomplete as obviously there are other minority religions like Hinduism, Scientology, various Animist belief systems, etc.

One eyed Jack

Custardpi wrote: »

If you're talking about the Abrahamic religions - Christianity, Islam & Judaism then yes they are essentially worshipping the same deity. They'd obviously disagree on the exact role played by lesser figures such as angels, prophets etc but there's a huge amount of overlap between them. Those three faiths make up the majority of religious people around the world so it's not entirely wrong to talk about "the one god" in that context, just incomplete as obviously there are other minority religions like Hinduism, Scientology, various Animist belief systems, etc.

You must be thinking of another religion surely?

At more than 1.03 billion, Hindus are the world's third largest group after Christians and Muslims. The vast majority of Hindus, approximately 966 million, live in India, according to India's 2011 census. After India, the next 9 countries with the largest Hindu populations are, in decreasing order: Nepal, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, United States, Malaysia, United Kingdom and Myanmar. These together accounted for 99% of the world's Hindu population, and the remaining nations of the world together had about 6 million Hindus in 2010.

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu

Custardpi

Perhaps that was the wrong word to use, I meant a minority relative to the size of the Abrahamic group of religions.

Nodin

py2006 wrote: »

I hear this from some older folk I occasionally get into the conversation/debate about religion/s and god/s etc. It is difficult to get into any conversation about it as they think any questioning of the nonsensical is nonsense!!

Anyway, is it the arrogance of Catholicism that they assume that those who follow other religions and other gods are actually following the same god as them.

I tried to convey to them that no, that is not the case. If you were born in a different part of the world or a different time in our history you would be following a completely different god and religion.

What do you think?

Tbh, that's actually a "liberal" attitude, in that it says the other shower are at least kicking the ball towards the correct goalposts - one god manifesting himself in different ways at different times usually being the thought behind it. You'll hear quite different in some circles as regards Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and so on, and its less than pleasant.

You won't believe its the same god because you don't believe he popped up the once, let alone for all the rest on separate occasions.

fisgon

If you get into the details, the Abrahamic religions' gods are actually quite different, even if they have the same origin. In fact, even the different variations within the three great faiths are quite different.

One god wants women to cover their faces, another doesn't want you to use a rubber on your wanger, another has actually elected the saved before they are born, another has requires you to wear magic underwear, another orders us to separate meat from dairy, one wants us to keep Friday holy, another Saturday, the other Sunday. One turned his son human in order that he could be murdered, another chose an seventh century merchant to dictate his rules to, another parted the Red Sea. One turns wafer and wine into the physical stuff of humanity, another requires you to face a certain direction when you pray to him. One god only used to want people to read about him in Latin, while another one has elected Arabic as the holy tongue. One requires you to confess your misdeeds to his proxies before you can get into heaven, another will give you a certain number of virgins if you get there (though does not specify if women will get male virgins as, presumably, sex-slaves too), another requires you to snip the tip of your penis, and still another requires you to believe that the combined work of human science is a conspiracy theory designed to make people think that humanity did not begin in the garden of Eden.

Oh yeah, they're all the same god.....

robindch

fisgon wrote: »

If you get into the details, the Abrahamic religions' gods are actually quite different, even if they have the same origin.

The deities are basically identical - all-knowing, all-powerful and all-giving. In fact, so powerful that once this power had come to its fullest statement in christianity's NT, god really disappears from the narrative as a figure with stirs much interest.

Absolam

I think the idea is that by saying that everyone else worships the same omnipotent singular deity as you, simply with a different understanding, the claimant is introducing the idea that you shouldn't hate other people because actually they're just like you, and maybe if you don't try to kill them or oppress them for a while you might find you start to get along.
Rather than an arrogance of Catholicism I think it's more like a ground level kind of détente which lets people rationalise going for a pint together instead of chucking stones (or bullets) at each other like they secretly suspect they're supposed to be doing... but don't really want to.

Having said that, post this in Christianity or Islam and you might hear some fundamentally different opinions

pauldla

Reminds me of the story Bertrand Russell told of his incarceration during WW1 for pacifism (or such, can't remember the exact details). Anyway, on his admission the warder asked his religion and Russell replied 'Atheist', to which the warder sighed and remarked, 'Well I suppose there are many paths but they all lead to the same god'.

Stealthfins

Just don't mention polytheism please 😱

endacl

smacl wrote: »

I think the person in question hasn't seen the Hindu pantheon.

Flying monkey gods? Elephant head gods? Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom gods? That's the one for me!

smacl

Absolam wrote: »

I think the idea is that by saying that everyone else worships the same omnipotent singular deity as you, simply with a different understanding, the claimant is introducing the idea that you shouldn't hate other people because actually they're just like you, and maybe if you don't try to kill them or oppress them for a while you might find you start to get along.

While inwardly smiling in the knowledge that all those filthy heathens will eventually burn for all eternity for not worshipping the exactly correct version that you do...

Zillah

Absolam wrote: »

Rather than an arrogance of Catholicism I think it's more like a ground level kind of détente which lets people rationalise going for a pint together instead of chucking stones (or bullets) at each other like they secretly suspect they're supposed to be doing... but don't really want to.

Exactly this. We have so much to complain about, do we really want to get snarky about the fact that some religious people are happy to say we're all really on the same team, even if we've got slightly different ideas?

Also bear in mind that a lot of religious people don't actually believe in the literal book-described dude in the sky that represents the official position - they're all just expressions of an encounter with something beautiful and numinous, and they practice their faith in the manner they're used to.

They're all bonkers, of course, but this element of it should hardly register on secular radar.

Absolam

smacl wrote: »

While inwardly smiling in the knowledge that all those filthy heathens will eventually burn for all eternity for not worshipping the exactly correct version that you do...

If it means they don't kill each other to get there... fine by me!

redfacedbear

Zillah wrote: »

numinous

What a lovely word! I had never heard of it before.

looksee

Zillah wrote: »

They're all bonkers, of course, but this element of it should hardly register on secular radar.

Quite true, the problem is that the radar in Ireland is not secular.

Zillah

redfacedbear wrote: »

What a lovely word! I had never heard of it before.

I've got our own dear departed Hitchens to thank for that one actually

Quite the font of obscure and beautiful vocabulary.