Thinking of buying an apartment - FTB

Benny122

Hi there looking for advice please!

I am 32 working full time in permanent employment in the private sector.

I am currently living at home. My earnings at present are 26k per annum. I can save €700 a month and pay rent to my mother of €150pm.

My salary is due to go up to 29k in the next year or two due to my studies

My partner is on JSA at present earning €208pw (€1100per year).

I am thinking of buying an apartment. As my wages are so low I have shopped to BOI for mortgage. The asking price of apartment is 69k so bank will only give me €54k and they said its tight at that!! As I will be getting a gift of €15k.

The mortgage on 54k is only €250 a month - id have my own place for €100 more. There are also maintamvence fees of €900 per year.

Even though we are not married my partner will be helping with the mortgage repayments 50:50.

I will be getting sole mortgage.

Any advice on mortgage lenders at the moment? Or any advice full stop would be much appreciated

c montgomery

Benny122 wrote: »

Hi there looking for advice please!

I am 32 working full time in permanent employment in the private sector.

I am currently living at home. My earnings at present are 26k per annum. I can save €700 a month and pay rent to my mother of €150pm.

My salary is due to go up to 29k in the next year or two due to my studies

My partner is on JSA at present earning €208pw (€1100per year).

I am thinking of buying an apartment. As my wages are so low I have shopped to BOI for mortgage. The asking price of apartment is 69k so bank will only give me €54k and they said its tight at that!! As I will be getting a gift of €15k.

The mortgage on 54k is only €250 a month - id have my own place for €100 more. There are also maintamvence fees of €900 per year.

Even though we are not married my partner will be helping with the mortgage repayments 50:50.

I will be getting sole mortgage.

Any advice on mortgage lenders at the moment? Or any advice full stop would be much appreciated

Don't put partners name on mortgage and get him a rent book as he will be renting from you rather than helping with mortgage. This is to help you if you ever break up.

NinjaTruncs

Benny122 wrote: »

I am currently living at home. My earnings at present are 26k per annum. I can save €700 a month and pay rent to my mother of €150pm.

The mortgage on 54k is only €250 a month - id have my own place for €100 more. There are also maintamvence fees of €900 per year.

Don't underestimate the cost of owning a property. Maintenance works out at 75pm. Your statement of "my own place for €100 more" has almost doubled with your immediately after saying it.

You also don't say what is covered by your mammy rent, if you pay all other bills yourself you're fine if not, heating electricity, water, food, TV, internet will all add substantially to your costs. And then you need to furnish the new place which again adds up.

You say you are saving each month but don't mention what savings you have, does the 15 k include your savings? If not where will you get the money to buy the things you need to live in your new place?

riclad

You could maybe buy an old house 2bed for 120k,
that needs modernisation,decoration, basic repairs .
eg new pvc windows installed .
maybe electrical rewiring .
IF you intend to live work in dublin, my advice is buy somewhere to live .
A house gives you a parking space outside,
you could rent out one room.
There,s property tax on a house ,
any apartment in dublin will have service charges , 1000 euro at least per year .

I cant see to point of buying a btl ,the loans for btl are more expensive ,larger deposit needed ,
The return on a btl is maybe 5 per cent ,
the tax on rental income could be 40 per cent .

Benny122

c montgomery wrote: »

Don't put partners name on mortgage and get him a rent book as he will be renting from you rather than helping with mortgage. This is to help you if you ever break up.

Is this s special rent book?

Benny122

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Don't underestimate the cost of owning a property. Maintenance works out at 75pm. Your statement of "my own place for €100 more" has almost doubled with your immediately after saying it.

You also don't say what is covered by your mammy rent, if you pay all other bills yourself you're fine if not, heating electricity, water, food, TV, internet will all add substantially to your costs. And then you need to furnish the new place which again adds up.

You say you are saving each month but don't mention what savings you have, does the 15 k include your savings? If not where will you get the money to buy the things you need to live in your new place?

Thanks I appreciate where you are coming from alright. We have €3500 to furnish the place which includes the €1100 cash back from BOI - its only 57square meters! So it won't take all that much. I know where your coming from I'm prob in for big shock cause the €150 I paid in rent to my mother was just for her. She paid all the bills. Not me

Based on the figures I present would you recommend I back out - is it doable

Benny122

c montgomery wrote: »

Don't put partners name on mortgage and get him a rent book as he will be renting from you rather than helping with mortgage. This is to help you if you ever break up.

Well his name wasn't going on the mortgage but it was going on the property? So what do we do now. I was doing sole mortgage with joint ownership. How can he be a silent owner in the property. Enless I will him 100% of the property and not put his name on the deeds

riclad

Mortgages last 25 years plus,
you can make a will and give him 50 per cent share of any property you own.
I don,t think you can put someone on the deeds if the loan is just in your name,
at least until the loan is paid off 100 per cent.
The book mentioned in a previous post is a rental book ,
ask for Rental book from any stationary shop or easons stationary dept.
Any payments he makes towards mortgage should be written down and records kept until the loan is paid off.
When the loan is paid you,ll recieve the deeds from the bank.

otwb1

Benny122 wrote:

Well his name wasn't going on the mortgage but it was going on the property? So what do we do now. I was doing sole mortgage with joint ownership. How can he be a silent owner in the property. Enless I will him 100% of the property and not put his name on the deeds

Oh man, even if the bank and your solicitor let you do this then you could be left with the full mortgage debt while your partner walks off with half the price of the house.... (if anything went wrong with the relationship).

There are also automatic rights for cohabiting couples after a period of time (length of time varies depending on whether you have children or not)

It's definitely worth talking to a solicitor before doing anything

riclad

for a mortgage with one person on it ,
Theres no way of changing the deeds, to put on another person
until the loan is paid off .

johnnyskeleton

Benny122 wrote: »

Thanks I appreciate where you are coming from alright. We have €3500 to furnish the place which includes the €1100 cash back from BOI - its only 57square meters! So it won't take all that much. I know where your coming from I'm prob in for big shock cause the €150 I paid in rent to my mother was just for her. She paid all the bills. Not me

Based on the figures I present would you recommend I back out - is it doable

Have you factored in:
Stamp duty c. 600
Solicitors fee c. 1k
Registration fees c. 700
Survey c. 400
Valuation report c. 150
As one off fees? That may have to come out of your furniture fund. The bank will probably want to see that you have those funds plus enough for furniture before drawdown.

Also, in adddition to management fees, you will have to pay, on an annual basis:
Life insurance c. 100
Local property tax c. 100
Repairs (depends on state of apartment)
Water charges c. 160

If the current owner has paid these fees in advance e.g. pays the managament fees in april and you buy in may, you will have to pay them 11 months worth of the fees etc.

Not trying to be overly negative, but I think you might be trying to buy too early. Can you waqit until next year when you will have anothet c. 8k saved and so be in a much better position? Maybe your girlfriend will get a job in the meantime so you can both be on the mortgage?

Mrs OBumble

What are the chances of your partner getting a job in the area? I think it's madness committing him/herself to lifetime of unemployment because of a property in a poor location.

whatnext

I have only one observation to make.

Is having kids on your agenda? If so, is there space in the apartment for a child and everything that comes with one. I lived in a 2 bed 70m2 apartment and when the second one arrived we cracked.

If kids are not on the horizon then I'd go for it. When we got our apartment we ended up more than compensating for the additional costs incurred by savings generated by having a place to stay at home in.

c montgomery

c montgomery wrote: »

Don't put partners name on mortgage and get him a rent book as he will be renting from you rather than helping with mortgage. This is to help you if you ever break up.

What ever you do, don't give your partner a rent book. He will be a licensee, in fact don't even mention he is your partner just someone renting a room from you.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What are the chances of your partner getting a job in the area? I think it's madness committing him/herself to lifetime of unemployment because of a property in a poor location.

The op has a permanent job they would be mad to leave the area and leave a permanent job behind them so buying makes a lot of sense.

Benny122

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Have you factored in:
Stamp duty c. 600
Solicitors fee c. 1k
Registration fees c. 700
Survey c. 400
Valuation report c. 150
As one off fees? That may have to come out of your furniture fund. The bank will probably want to see that you have those funds plus enough for furniture before drawdown.

Also, in adddition to management fees, you will have to pay, on an annual basis:
Life insurance c. 100
Local property tax c. 100
Repairs (depends on state of apartment)
Water charges c. 160

If the current owner has paid these fees in advance e.g. pays the managament fees in april and you buy in may, you will have to pay them 11 months worth of the fees etc.

Not trying to be overly negative, but I think you might be trying to buy too early. Can you waqit until next year when you will have anothet c. 8k saved and so be in a much better position? Maybe your girlfriend will get a job in the meantime so you can both be on the mortgage?

Well our deposit is now €18000 and the bank has factored in all the above cost that you mentioned. We both have 20000 BOI shares plus my partner has other savings. Plus I currently live at home and my family home will fall to me in years

Benny122

Yes I have a permanent job - and there is a tenant in the property at the moment and the rent on the property is making €550!! So if all came to all couldn't we rent it and it would pay for itself?

mahamageehad

I think you'd be mad to do this. Have you considered renting somewhere with your partner first for a year so you can fully understand the cost of bills, food and even small things like entertainment. Internet bills, tv license. There's a lot that goes into renting, not to mind owning a house!

MouseTail

Don't forget to factor in the fact when your partner moves in with you his JSA will be means tested against your income. His payment is likely to drop substantially.

Benny122

mahamageehad wrote: »

I think you'd be mad to do this. Have you considered renting somewhere with your partner first for a year so you can fully understand the cost of bills, food and even small things like entertainment. Internet bills, tv license. There's a lot that goes into renting, not to mind owning a house!

Sur if we rented we would be paying €600 per month between us - and thats rent only!! If we bought this property all we pay each is €165 per month (240mortgage plus 90 maintanence divided by 2).

So I've worker out all our outgoings as much as I can for definite:
1750 my income + 900his= €2650pm
Motor tax €95 (for two of us)
Motor insurance  €67 (for two of us)
Health cover €75
Mom €150 (still factoring in paying my mom)
Mortgage €240
Maintenance €90
Tv €9 (Netflix)
Saving €500
Mortgage protection €10
Life cover €60 (for the two of us)
TOTAL Costings = €1296pm
€2650-€1296 = €1384pm (left over between us)

I know I know I know ye say there's no light water included above

Benny122

Du know what I'd be better off to buy it and he can be silient partner "will" him 50% sorted.

Squall Leonhart

Benny122 wrote: »

Du know what I'd be better off to buy it and he can be silient partner "will" him 50% sorted.

A will can be changed at any time though, willing him 50% of the property is of no value to him whatsoever really as you can remove him from the will if things go south between you two.

Benny122

Squall Leonhart wrote: »

A will can be changed at any time though, willing him 50% of the property is of no value to him whatsoever really as you can remove him from the will if things go south between you two.

I know but I wouldn't do that. Sur I could will him 100% of the property

Ursus Horribilis

Is your partner looking for a job? As a taxpayer I find it offensive that you're factoring in their JSA as an income.

Also, have you brushed up on cohabitation laws? After a few years your partner will be legally entitled to 50% of your apartment.

Squall Leonhart

Benny122 wrote: »

I know but I wouldn't do that. Sur I could will him 100% of the property

I understand that, and yes you could, but your partner has no security in your word unfortunately (even though I don't doubt your good intentions). Even some of the most in love couples have ended in bitter divorce, it can happen.

If I were your partner I'd be looking for something a little more bulletproof if I were to pay half a mortgage.

PhoenixParker

If you're co-habiting your partner may no longer receive job seekers. The Prsi component runs out after a period of time and then your income as a cohabiting partner would apply to the means tested amount.

In your shoes I would wait. Let your partner get a job. Save and possibly rent together after that for six months. Think of it as an insurance policy on your compatibility then buy together once your partner has passed probation.

MouseTail

You are still factoring in his JSA, his payment won't be anything near what it is now, can you afford the mortgage and all expenses on your salary alone?

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

To me paying 600 euro a month to rent when you could be paying less than half for a mortgage on an equivalent place makes buying an absolute no brainer. It's literally throwing money down the drain for nothing "renting for a while". If her partner is officially living with her he may lose his job seekers allowance but that's a bigger deal if renting than having a mortgage if you look at the figures. Paying 600 rent from a single income will stretch things a lot more than 300 in a mortgage.

My first time living with my gf wiil be in a place I or we buy, don't see any issue with that aspect of the op's plan at all.

Michael D Not Higgins

OP I see you've been trying to get advice on buying an apartment for nearly 2 years. I also see your partner has been on welfare for most of that time and that he is the one with the 'gift' for the deposit.

Benny122 wrote: »

Another question I have - the 30k would be from my boyfriend and he's not working at the moment so would we have to make it look like it cam from a blood relative??

Could he give the estate agent a cheque for 30k and I get mortgage for €50k - would that work or would there be questions asked??

You've also had JSA and JSB and means tested welfare explained multiple times in multiple forums. Were there particular barriers that you've faced before or did you not apply for a mortgage then?

You've also been looking for some strange advice with hiding the partner from the bank but still trying to get your partner onto the deeds, and getting a gift from your partner but hiding the source from the bank which could have tax implications or affect your partner's means tested payments.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

draiochtanois

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nothing Celtic tiger era about my post, some people obviously love using silly phrases like that though whether they make sense or not.

Down is the only way interest rates are going at the moment if they go anywhere and even if they went up they ain't going to go up to anything near enough to bridge the gap between the equivalent rent and mortgage.

Also rent can go up, this is much more likely in the near future than interest rates going up.

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No I mean literally, its spending twice as much money and getting less. Might as well burn the money imo.

I'm just giving my opinion like others, to me for someone in a permanent job and looking to settle down buying makes far fer more sense than renting even if there wasn't a significant price difference.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

draiochtanois

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It is actually happening in my opinion, you are throwing money down the drain. I'm sure you have something better for doing than writing pedantic posts dragging this thread off topic.

Benny122

Patricia Ripe Squad wrote: »

To me paying 600 euro a month to rent when you could be paying less than half for a mortgage on an equivalent place makes buying an absolute no brainer. It's literally throwing money down the drain for nothing "renting for a while". If her partner is officially living with her he may lose his job seekers allowance but that's a bigger deal if renting than having a mortgage if you look at the figures. Paying 600 rent from a single income will stretch things a lot more than 300 in a mortgage.

My first time living with my gf wiil be in a place I or we buy, don't see any issue with that aspect of the op's plan at all.

Yes thank you so much for the advice I am glad you can see where I am coming from. Why should pay €600 dead money on renting which is €300 each plus if my partner is renting with me any way his JSA will be cut, when I can buy a place for only €250 a month with help from him!

athtrasna

Mod note

Folks, let the modding to the mods please. Correction of other posters' choice of words is not in the spirit of this forum.

irish_dave_83

Benny122 wrote: »

Yes thank you so much for the advice I am glad you can see where I am coming from. Why should pay €600 dead money on renting which is €300 each plus if my partner is renting with me any way his JSA will be cut, when I can buy a place for only €250 a month with help from him!

I dont see anything wrong with the Op's plan. Money may be a bit tight, and the lifestyle will change, but that happens to us all when we buy our first house.

I would say this though, just be sure you actually want that property by that I mean that you really like it, don't buy it for the sake of moving out of you family home. I know you are probably getting itchy feet at home, but sometimes it may be better to wait until you can afford the property that you will be spending the next 5-10 years (at least).

Anyway best of luck OP, I hope it works out for you.

Ursus Horribilis

OP why is your partner not working?

johnnyskeleton

Benny122 wrote: »

Sur if we rented we would be paying €600 per month between us - and thats rent only!! If we bought this property all we pay each is €165 per month (240mortgage plus 90 maintanence divided by 2).

So I've worker out all our outgoings as much as I can for definite:
1750 my income + 900his= €2650pm
Motor tax €95 (for two of us)
Motor insurance  €67 (for two of us)
+Petrol, car maintenance etc
Health cover €75
Mom €150 (still factoring in paying my mom)
Mortgage €240
Maintenance €90
+local property tax, water charges, repairs to the property
Tv €9 (Netflix)
+Broadband, tv licence, phone
Saving €500
Mortgage protection €10
Life cover €60 (for the two of us)
+electricity/gas,
TOTAL Costings = €1296pm
€2650-€1296 = €1384pm (left over between us)

I know I know I know ye say there's no light water included above

Well there's a lot that's not included and as stated his welfare will be reduced. However, if you're happy with the calculations then go for it.

Benny122

irish_dave_83 wrote: »

I dont see anything wrong with the Op's plan. Money may be a bit tight, and the lifestyle will change, but that happens to us all when we buy our first house.

I would say this though, just be sure you actually want that property by that I mean that you really like it, don't buy it for the sake of moving out of you family home. I know you are probably getting itchy feet at home, but sometimes it may be better to wait until you can afford the property that you will be spending the next 5-10 years (at least).

Anyway best of luck OP, I hope it works out for you.

Thanks for the advice - I will fall into my family home in the coming years also which is a 3 bed house so why would I want to be spending massive money on a big mortgage - I would get anymore money from bank anyway based on my salary. I'm just around the corner from home too so I can still call there and there at weekend or a night during the week

Ursus Horribilis

I don't think anyone should be depending on their family home as a windfall. Who knows what the future holds for your parents. You can't just assume that they'll be in rude good health right up to the day they pop their clogs. Should one or both of them fall ill and need prolonged care, are there funds to pay for that? Nursing home bills/fair deal aren't to be sniffed at.

Also OP I've asked twice about your partner's unemployment. You're working on the basis of the JSA being an income which implies your partner won't be finding a job. So my taxes will be paying your mortgage.

Squall Leonhart

Odus fell down wrote: »

You're working on the basis of the JSA being an income which implies your partner won't be finding a job. So my taxes will be paying your mortgage.

This, exactly this!