Site with full planning, construction started.

Grecco

I have bought a site with full plannig for a house. The house was only constructed to foundation level and abandoned/owner went bankrupt.
Now as it stand the planning permission has sence lapsed/expired.
Question now is, can I still go ahead and build the house and say feck all to the local authority. Or will I need to re-apply for planning again?

TeaBagMania

Saying feck all to the local authority probably isn’t the best idea, re-apply and plead your case

davo10

The planning on my own house was running out about 10 years ago and I wasn't keen to move at that time and didn't want to have to reapply again. I asked the planners could foundation satisfy the planning and they said no, it had to be up to roof level and preferably closed ie roof/windows/doors. I had to build the whole house in the end or risk agro with the neighbours and a notice that new application would be needed.

Gumbo

Grecco wrote: »

I have bought a site with full plannig for a house. The house was only constructed to foundation level and abandoned/owner went bankrupt.
Now as it stand the planning permission has sence lapsed/expired.
Question now is, can I still go ahead and build the house and say feck all to the local authority. Or will I need to re-apply for planning again?

The planning has lapsed I'm afraid. We get a lot of this here in Dublin. You need to reapply for planning and lodge a commencement notice and also comply with current building regulations with regards to new dwellings.

This may mean significant alterations to comply with Part L, Part M etc
Is the original engineer still around to sign off on the existing foundations?

I'm thinking to myself if it be better to removed existing build up and start again.....

newacc2015

Grecco wrote: »

I have bought a site with full plannig for a house. The house was only constructed to foundation level and abandoned/owner went bankrupt.
Now as it stand the planning permission has sence lapsed/expired.
Question now is, can I still go ahead and build the house and say feck all to the local authority. Or will I need to re-apply for planning again?

Have you had it checked for pyrite? If it is in Leinster. I would rip up for that reason.

Grecco

Well I don't want to spend a 100k building the dam thing only to be told to knock it again. As for the original foundations they were done by local tradesmen, no engineer involved so I'm not sure how to proceed their. The foundation looks correct and the guy that put them in has a good reputation. But will I have to get an engineer now to pass this foundation? Maybe ripping it out may be the best option.

Gumbo

Grecco wrote: »

Well I don't want to spend a 100k building the dam thing only to be told to knock it again. As for the original foundations they were done by local tradesmen, no engineer involved so I'm not sure how to proceed their. The foundation looks correct and the guy that put them in has a good reputation. But will I have to get an engineer now to pass this foundation? Maybe ripping it out may be the best option.

You have options.

Are you paying with your own cash?
Are you using a mortgage?

If a mortgage is being used, the bank will insist on stage certificates from a qualified Engineer, Architect, Surveyor, Relevent professional such as a Technician registered with particular institutions etc

You now have a problem of sourcing somebody that will put their name and PI insurance to foundations and in particular stone hardcore / fill material put down by cash merchants with no traceability. If something goes wrong in the future, even though your new engineer didn't design and inspect the foundations, it will be his PI insurance and name that goes down the drain!

My personal opinion / recommendation would be to carry out the following process :

1. Approach the area planner to confirm 100% that a new planning application is required. If yes, get over that hurdle.

Then

2. Engage an Engineer and see if he will stand over the existing foundations. Everything is only a guess until we know what is the current status with those.

Grecco

Just a quick question, why would paying by cash make any difference. As it stands I was just going to build the house out of my own money and not bother with the banks. So by doing that, would it be possible to continue building on top of existing foundations. Ive checked them out myself, I know the guy that put them in and as far as I`m concerned they are more than 100% ok.
Question is what effect that would have on the future sale/title etc for the house regardless of the planning situation?
Second question is can I approach the county council first to make inquiries before committing to get planning straight away?

davo10

Grecco wrote: »

Just a quick question, why would paying by cash make any difference. As it stands I was just going to build the house out of my own money and not bother with the banks. So by doing that, would it be possible to continue building on top of existing foundations. Ive checked them out myself, I know the guy that put them in and as far as I`m concerned they are more than 100% ok.
Question is what effect that would have on the future sale/title etc for the house regardless of the planning situation?
Second question is can I approach the county council first to make inquiries before committing to get planning straight away?

If you don't need a mortgage you won't have to worry about the bank requiring certificates. The poster doesn't mean cash in the sense that you are handing over notes, it means you are using your own rather than borrowed money.

How did you buy a site without first checking out the planning position? If you have to reapply for planning it will be subject to planning regulations including local development plans which may prohibit the granting of planning to anyone not from the area. Even the existing planning may have a residency clause.

Grecco

davo10 wrote: »

How did you buy a site without first checking out the planning position? If you have to reapply for planning it will be subject to planning regulations including local development plans which may prohibit the granting of planning to anyone not from the area. Even the existing planning may have a residency clause.

I bought it along with some other land. I don`t see my self having made a bad deal on the purchase as the whole property was zoned for planning at one stage. I bought it at less that Agricultural value.
Now it will be worth developing in the future after we are all long gone but its the site that I wanted to get sorted. The original planning had no residency clause. As the site stands its an eyesore for the area so it would be in the councils interest to get the property finished

Gumbo

Grecco wrote: »

Just a quick question, why would paying by cash make any difference. As it stands I was just going to build the house out of my own money and not bother with the banks. So by doing that, would it be possible to continue building on top of existing foundations. Ive checked them out myself, I know the guy that put them in and as far as I`m concerned they are more than 100% ok.
Question is what effect that would have on the future sale/title etc for the house regardless of the planning situation?
Second question is can I approach the county council first to make inquiries before committing to get planning straight away?

You won't need certificates issued if paying out of your own money. But if you ever go to sell you will need certs of compliance with building and planning regulations.

You can approach the planners before hand. Don't forget you may also owe financial contributions. The first call I'd make is to the contribution section of the council and give them the planning ref number and ask if the contributions have been paid.

You will need professional involvement at some stage so your best to get them from the start as you don't want to build on and then find out you can't get compliance certs from anyone.

davo10

Grecco wrote: »

I bought it along with some other land. I don`t see my self having made a bad deal on the purchase as the whole property was zoned for planning at one stage. I bought it at less that Agricultural value.
Now it will be worth developing in the future after we are all long gone but its the site that I wanted to get sorted. The original planning had no residency clause. As the site stands its an eyesore for the area so it would be in the councils interest to get the property finished

If the site was what was most important to you, you should have spoken to the planning office before you purchased. If the planning has lapsed and it's unlikely the foundation will satisfy the original planning permission, the land will now have reverted to agricultural subject to new planning permission for residential building.

You are wasting your time taking advice on a discussion forum, you need to make an appointment to discuss it with the local planning official.

Grecco

Don`t really care about the site to be honest. Its more an inconvenience than anything, If I could have got away with just building on and saying nothing that would have been the best outcome, this doesn`t look like a valid route. But I`ll go into the council planning office and find out whats what.
Thanks for the contributions

Gumbo

Grecco wrote: »

Don`t really care about the site to be honest. Its more an inconvenience than anything, If I could have got away with just building on and saying nothing that would have been the best outcome, this doesn`t look like a valid route. But I`ll go into the council planning office and find out whats what.
Thanks for the contributions

What LA is it in?

4ensic15

Grecco wrote: »

I have bought a site with full plannig for a house. The house was only constructed to foundation level and abandoned/owner went bankrupt.
Now as it stand the planning permission has sence lapsed/expired.
Question now is, can I still go ahead and build the house and say feck all to the local authority. Or will I need to re-apply for planning again?

Very risky thing to do. You could be hit with an injunction in the middle of construction. Planning laws are enforced more rigourously than before. There are now aerial photographs available so they can prove exactly when a building went up. It would be ruinous to be hit with legal bills and forced to apply for retention and comply with conditions.

Icepick

you need a new permission that complies with the current regulations

the_syco

Grecco wrote: »

I have bought a site with full plannig for a house.
Now as it stand the planning permission has sence lapsed/expired.

To me, this means no planning permission.

As said, have the foundations checked for pyrite, as it's the source of the materials that is the issue, not the person who put it there. Consider that the cost of digging up the foundations may have been what stopped the original build.

RORY O CONNOR

Grecco wrote: »

Well I don't want to spend a 100k building the dam thing only to be told to knock it again. As for the original foundations they were done by local tradesmen, no engineer involved so I'm not sure how to proceed their. The foundation looks correct and the guy that put them in has a good reputation. But will I have to get an engineer now to pass this foundation? Maybe ripping it out may be the best option.

Dig the ground beside the foundations to see what the ground conditions are-the ground may be poor or the foundations not put in deep enough. Have two or three 100mm/150mm cores taken from the foundations and have them crush tested to see what the strength of the foundation concrete is. This is a far cheaper option that taking the foundations up if they don't need to come up. As for Pyrite-the Pyrite is typically in the stone infill under the house floors and not in the concrete foundations. So if its only the strip footings/foundations and rising walls with no stone infill or floor slab installed then Pyrite should not be an issue.