Land Cost: W or W/O Planning Permission

jiminho

Hey,

I've started a search for a plot of land in South Dublin and I had a quick question about land valuation. What I've noticed is that residentially zoned land w/ planning permission (PP) costs a significant sum of money, sometimes getting close to 80% of the price of surrounding houses. No surprises there!!, however the area I'm looking in, while actually has a few plots of land for sale, only has them for sale w/ PP. So my question is: how does a plot of land w/ PP affect the price? For example, two identical plots of land adjacent to each other are for sale. Same soil conditions, road frontage etc. carbon copies of one another but one has PP and the other does not. What in your opinion, would the difference in cost be? Double the price, 10% or the exact same. Your opinions please.

Thanks

Metric Tensor

Depends on how easy or difficult it is to get planning permission in a particular area but for example in a typical rural setting an acre of agricultural land might be 15K so half an acre would be 7.5k. With a fairly clean planning permission in a desirable location a half acre site could make 50k - so that's 6 times the price

On the other hand a vacant, numbered, serviced site in the right conditions in housing estate might be a shoe in to get PP and so light be almost the exact same value with or without PP.

Location, location, location OP!

jiminho

So another question. The areas I'm looking at are invariable zoned either A, B, or G. Zone A being primarily for residential , Zone B is classified as "To protect and improve rural amenity and to provide for the development of agriculture" and Zone G is classified as "To protect and improve high amenity areas". The only plots of land for sale are Zoned A and as mentioned above the prices are ludicrous. Now i have seen plots of land for sale in the last 2 years that have been in areas zoned either B or G which are much more reasonably priced. I realise it will be tougher to get planning permission but they do have residential developments as "open to consideration".

Now I've read the local area plan and County Policy for Development in Rural Areas but they are vague to say the least. How do i increase my likelihood of getting planning permission in one of these two zones?

Rackstar

Are you a gambler OP? That's what you're doing here, gambling. For arguments sake you buy a 1 acre site that may get planning for 20-30k, it doesn't get planning it's worth 7.5-10k and if it does it's worth 50-60. The person selling it more than likely knows more about it than you and has a fair idea if it'll get planning or not, they aren't going to let you take it off their hands for a knock down price is the fancy it'll get planning.

Site down the road from me, planning withdrawn previously prior to refusal. Looking for 30k for the acre.

jiminho

Well I wouldn't buy anything that wasn't subject to planning permission and there's a lot of Zoned B and G land near the area i grew up in. Ultimately I would like to approach some of the landowners in the area who are within these zones to see if they would sell a small section of their land. But what are the criteria the planning authorities typically look for in this instance? I grew up close to the area, I have family living within the area but what else would they be looking for from me personally opposed to the physical building itself? Any of the documents I've read don't really nail down that aspect.

Appreciate the comments so far.

Rackstar

They look for your links to the area. Copies of school records, club memberships, dated bills to show you've been living in the area. Clearance from revenue clarifying that you've never claimed mortgage interest relief. Go to your local authority's website and look at applications in the area, look at the scanned files especially further information where the LA have requested proof of ties to the area, they list off what they want to see there.

Get a local architect or engineer involved, they will be able to advise on the likelihood of obtaining planning or identify a site and try and arrange a pre planning meeting with a planner.

jiminho

Rackstar wrote: »

They look for your links to the area. Copies of school records, club memberships, dated bills to show you've been living in the area. Clearance from revenue clarifying that you've never claimed mortgage interest relief. Go to your local authority's website and look at applications in the area, look at the scanned files especially further information where the LA have requested proof of ties to the area, they list off what they want to see there.

Get a local architect or engineer involved, they will be able to advise on the likelihood of obtaining planning or identify a site and try and arrange a pre planning meeting with a planner.

Some good points there particularly about checking planning permission approval/rejections. I've only fleetingly looked at some in the past so I'll do my homework on that aspect.

I'm a civil engineer currently living out of the country but looking to move home within the next 9 months. Only at the early but would like to gather as much info that is available to the public before I engage a pre planning meeting. Also I'm going to attempt to do the majority of the work myself during the design/planning phase. I say that now but we'll wait and see. Appreciate the comments Rackstar.

Metric Tensor

Some counties have special clauses regarding looking favourably on applications from returning immigrants. Well worth looking into from your point if view OP.

You will probably need a job in the area to come back to. Not a tremendous amount of civil engineering jobs in rural areas so get looking now. Local builders might be an option.

jiminho

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Some counties have special clauses regarding looking favourably on applications from returning immigrants. Well worth looking into from your point if view OP.

You will probably need a job in the area to come back to. Not a tremendous amount of civil engineering jobs in rural areas so get looking now. Local builders might be an option.

Hmm I'll have to look into that more. I did notice the following wording in the Rural Housing Guidelines

"Returning emigrants who lived for substantial parts of their lives in rural areas, then moved abroad and who now wish to return to reside near other family members, to work locally, to care for elderly family members, or to retire should be also be accommodated."

For those last few points though from that sentence, is just one of them required i.e.reside near family members or work locally or care for elderly family members? I'm in relative close proximity to family members but i'll unlikely fulfill the work locally role unless I'm extremely lucky. And silly question but how would the planning authority define "reside near family members"? Would we have to be next door neighbours or would a radius of a couple of km be sufficient? Bearing in mind this is South County Dublin so not the largest area to begin with.

Dudda

jiminho wrote: »

And silly question but how would the planning authority define "reside near family members"? Would we have to be next door neighbours or would a radius of a couple of km be sufficient? Bearing in mind this is South County Dublin so not the largest area to begin with.

It varies. You'll have to provide a drawing showing your site and the land your family own highlighted too. What usually happens in rural areas is the applicant is trying to build on their parents farmland so its always adjacent or close to the family home. From experience they often request copies of folios or deeds of the family as additional proof. It would be good to check these exist and are in order.