Psychology vs Psychotherapy

voz es

I really hope that boards puts sub category for 'Psychotherapy' in the Science, Health & Environment category page. Putting it in the 'Psychology' category a very brilliant profession in itself is wrong.

Psychotherapy is quite lost in this discussion category, similar to trying to fit a large multi-dimensional shape into a small shallow square hole.

JuliusCaesar

Really?


Do explain.






.

voz es

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Really?
Do explain.
.

I'm sorry for the delay in this JuliusCaesar.

They are not the same or there would be no distinction, don't you agree?

dar100

voz es wrote: »

I'm sorry for the delay in this JuliusCaesar.

They are not the same or there would be no distinction, don't you agree?

They are more alike, than unlike each other. Psychotherapy is basically applied psychology

voz es

That is true there is elements of psychotherapy that encompass psychology and visa versa.
The treatment of the psyche is psychotherapy while psychology is the study/knowledge of the psyche, both have learnt from each other, Say Bowlby's attachment theory and Rodgers 'Nineteen Propositions'. But in the end of the day Psychology is not Psychotherapy or is Psychotherapy Psychology.

You have quite a similarities as well as differences and that is why I propose that it would be better for boards having a mental health Topic with sup categories 'Psychiatry' 'Psychotherapy' 'Psychology' of course there is the argument for 'holistic therapy' are there are many hundredths of therapy outlined out there.

Even the growing movement of Psychedelic therapy is closer to Psychiatry in its conception no matter how much ones stance on this.

Or simply to re assign this forum to 'mental health' and leave it at that but I feel there is value in having sub categories.

I must apologize for the title of the thread the whole concept of rivalry in anything reduces learning.

The Black Oil

From what the powers that be/admins have said before, they are not keen to have a dedicated mental health forum on the site. That is, one where people post personal problems. Boards isn't really the right place, posters aren't qualified to respond and you'd have some fairly tricky crisis management protocols and issues to consider.

If you want to discuss the more theoretical aspect of mental health, or how it affects people in general, and the literature, I think this forum is fine. The same for the practice of professional psychology and psychotherapy, imo.

I don't imagine the forum generates enough footfall to warrant subcategories.

JuliusCaesar

If only psychotherapy were actually based on the science of psychology! In many psychotherapy approaches, it's a very uneasy alliance indeed. But I would always recommend a base degree in psychology to anyone contemplating becoming a counsellor.



There is a Personal Issues forum. The odd poster posts personal problems here but gets moved over there.

PI mods are aware that we have a nice sticky here for finding out about how to access what kind of mental health professional.

voz es

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

If only psychotherapy were actually based on the science of psychology! In many psychotherapy approaches, it's a very uneasy alliance indeed. But I would always recommend a base degree in psychology to anyone contemplating becoming a counsellor.



There is a Personal Issues forum. The odd poster posts personal problems here but gets moved over there.

PI mods are aware that we have a nice sticky here for finding out about how to access what kind of mental health professional.

I see that in your posts on other topics Julius Ceasar and for that very reason having you as a mod of a the only window of opportunity for a educated conversation on the most public forum in the country on mental health modded by a hard line psychologist is very inadequate indeed.

What I would suggest rather than a degree in psychology that a counselor hold a masters in the studies of mental health to include psychology, psychotherapy studies, philosophy, neurology and the very essential personal process. It is impossible to be totally subjective on humanity while being a human. The non state regulation of psychotherapy as you have also highlighted is not he case in the uk is very important in order to reduce some of the ignorance around Psychotherapy.

The concept of putting a time frame of symptoms, diagnosis and cure is not something that lends its self very well to psychotherapy thus its difficulty in attaining status in many medical boards, a prominent professor of psychiatry called I. Yalom (Stanford university) would draw to the same ideals.

IMO it would be very beneficial for a psychologist to do a masters in psychotherapy that include personal process rather than just a degree in Psychology in order to be a counselor. Which would be going with the trend of holders of a psychology degree doing just that.

I am not suggesting that posters talk about their personal problems for discussion in this area I think 'The Black Oil' is very right in highlighting the inappropriateness of this.

JuliusCaesar

There is no abnormal psychology, just psychology.

Those subjects that you mention are all part of undergraduate studies in psychology. Any counselling or psychotherapy would be a Master's level course, on top of this basic knowledge of human processes.

Psychologists do not diagnose, we work from an individual formulation.

You might want to look at the work of Peter Kinderman.



Are you confusing psychiatry with psychology?

The Black Oil

I don't want to get too much into other forums, the Soccer forum is presumably moderated by people passionate about that sport. Food and Drink is the same. Sailing and Boating happens to have a mod who knows how to build and repair boats. I was asked about moderating this forum and I said no due to time constraints and other online responsibilities. I'm not a psychologist, btw. JC obviously is and that'll inform the tone of the forum at some level, which is fine.

Psychotherapy is potentially as broad as professional psychology - integrative, humanistic, etc and I suspect the public misuses the terms psychotherapist and psychologist fairly regularly. I don't know if people who do a BA in psychology then potter off to become a counsellor with some other non-traditional psychological but perhaps therapeutic qualification. I presume some do. Full training in clinical or counselling psychology takes years, including personal work and supervision. All must do CPD of some sort too, afaik. You haven't really said which type of psychologist you feel would benefit from a Masters in psychotherapy. Not having a go here.

Lavinia

Couldn't the OP open a thread on the topic of Psychotherapy and see where it leads. Psychotherapy is an interesting topic. With all its modalities.

I see that threads on this topics were opened before (http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?query=psychotherapy&forum=604) but perhaps the OP could give a new light or approach to it?

voz es

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

There is no abnormal psychology, just psychology.

Those subjects that you mention are all part of undergraduate studies in psychology. Any counselling or psychotherapy would be a Master's level course, on top of this basic knowledge of human processes.

Psychologists do not diagnose, we work from an individual formulation.

You might want to look at the work of Peter Kinderman.



Are you confusing psychiatry with psychology?

I'm sorry about the delay I seen your reply and I have been weighing up my response.
I am not a qualified Psychotherapist nor am I a qualified Psychologist or psychiatrist. I'm not sure if it is my place to have a debate with you on this.

I greatly value my interactions within psychotherapy.

The concept of regression the therapeutic relationship, unconditional positive regard are things I have personally gained form. I would feel that CPT is in ways hiding the symptoms of a underlying problem and the rust to analysis and diagnosis can at times be unwarranted.

I have not had time to do any substantial research into Peter Kinenman but I did read his and others open letter to the BBC with regard to a documentary which seemed slanted in communication to the viewer, this was interesting.

So maybe the best way to take forward our conversation should you or the other posters on this forum wish too is to focus on understanding why there has been fragmentation off studies/therapy of the psyche. The emergence of Psycho-therapeutic practices outside of the frameworks of clinical psychology.

The acceptance in some of the finest universities in this country of the benefits of teaching Psychotherapy in its own right, in independence of the psychology while accepting the value of the workings of the Psychology field among others, but not solely.

voz es

The Black Oil wrote: »

I don't want to get too much into other forums, the Soccer forum is presumably moderated by people passionate about that sport. Food and Drink is the same. Sailing and Boating happens to have a mod who knows how to build and repair boats. I was asked about moderating this forum and I said no due to time constraints and other online responsibilities. I'm not a psychologist, btw. JC obviously is and that'll inform the tone of the forum at some level, which is fine.

Psychotherapy is potentially as broad as professional psychology - integrative, humanistic, etc and I suspect the public misuses the terms psychotherapist and psychologist fairly regularly. I don't know if people who do a BA in psychology then potter off to become a counsellor with some other non-traditional psychological but perhaps therapeutic qualification. I presume some do. Full training in clinical or counselling psychology takes years, including personal work and supervision. All must do CPD of some sort too, afaik. You haven't really said which type of psychologist you feel would benefit from a Masters in psychotherapy. Not having a go here.

Black oil thank you for posting I alluded to the limits in my knowledge of psychology in a previous posting. Is there any forms of qualified Psychologists that do have not experienced personal process?

I don't think you are having a go, thank you for taking the time to read my posting.

My point of view would be that, the development of an integrative perspective within Psychotherapy is a very worthy development in mental health studies.

voz es

Lavinia wrote: »

Couldn't the OP open a thread on the topic of Psychotherapy and see where it leads. Psychotherapy is an interesting topic. With all its modalities.

I see that threads on this topics were opened before (http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?query=psychotherapy&forum=604) but perhaps the OP could give a new light or approach to it?

That is a spot on Lavinia, I'm afraid that that link would not work for me.

Lavinia

http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?query=psychotherapy
Oh sorry, I just typed a word "psychotherapy" in the Boards search box t the top.