Swapping religions

spurious

Ever so slightly OT - I am getting a couple of baptisms returning as C of I on rootsireland, followed by RC marriages in parish registers for the same people without any annotations - would that be usual?

pinkypinky

What parish were the baptisms in? They might be on Irishgenealogy.ie if Dublin/Kerry/Carlow.

Can you use the NLI registers to look at the original image for the marriage to see if annotations have been omitted?

Hermy

Don't know if this helps but I have an instance in my tree of the first three children of a family being baptised COI and the next being baptised Catholic and all subsequent descendants being Catholic. I'm told by someone who was researching the same family that the wife was Catholic and the husband was Protestant and following the husbands death they all reverted to Catholicism. This was late 1700's in Dublin City.

The Chieftain

spurious wrote: »

Ever so slightly OT - I am getting a couple of baptisms returning as C of I on rootsireland, followed by RC marriages in parish registers for the same people without any annotations - would that be usual?

Not entirely clear what the situation is.
- Do you mean that both parties to the marriage were baptized Protestant, but then married in Catholic church? That would be unusual.
- Or, do you mean one party to some marriages was baptized Protestant. That is not so unusual.

Can you also say what date and place you are researching? Marrying a Protestant in a Catholic church was very highly illegal for many years. In fact, I have a feeling that such "marriages" may actually have been null and void - unrecognized (legally). Should check...

As an aside, this fact that Protestant-Catholic marriages in Catholic churches were illegal is a primary reason why registration of Catholic marriages was delayed until 1864. The Church worried that the resulting registers would be used to send clergy on a free holiday to Van Diemen's Land.

spurious

She is Catherine McKeon, Baptism 24 Jul 1842 (we have that as her birthdate direct from her and know that she was from Kilkenny) - that matches a baptism in Fertagh (Johnstown)

Then we have the parish record of marriage (to Stephen Loughman):
Rathdowney parish - 11 Feb 1862
Microfilm 05014 / 03

There is also the complication I mentioned in an earlier post of a civil record:
Name: Stephen Loughman
Date of Registration: 1861
Registration district: Roscrea, Ireland
Volume: 10
Page Number: 36
FHL Film Number: 101248
Records on Page:
Name
Kate McKeogh
Stephen Loughman

I know the name there is not exact match to hers, but might it throw some light on things?

The Chieftain

spurious wrote: »

She is Catherine McKeon, Baptism 24 Jul 1842 (we have that as her birthdate direct from her and know that she was from Kilkenny) - that matches a baptism in Fertagh (Johnstown)...

Thanks for the additional details. Do I take it then that there are two possible marriages? That would actually be very consistent with a Catholic-Protestant marriage, where it was quite usual to have two ceremonies, one Protestant, one Catholic.

pinkypinky

Spurious

Did you get that 1861 marriage cert?

spurious

pinkypinky wrote: »

Spurious

Did you get that 1861 marriage cert?

It is on my list for certs to get tomorrow. It is the one the American relatives on ancestry linked to - perhaps they did not know of the church one three months later.

Chieftain, would a three month gap between the civil and the religious marriage be usual?
Should I perhaps look for a Protestant church marriage too or could the 1861 marriage be a Protestant one?
All children were brought up and baptised catholic.

pinkypinky

Three month gap would be very unusual.

The Chieftain

spurious wrote: »

It is on my list for certs to get tomorrow. It is the one the American relatives on ancestry linked to - perhaps they did not know of the church one three months later.

Chieftain, would a three month gap between the civil and the religious marriage be usual?
Should I perhaps look for a Protestant church marriage too or could the 1861 marriage be a Protestant one?
All children were brought up and baptised catholic.

I think the advice to get the certs, and check the original registers online, where available, is sound - we could do a lot of speculation, but the documents should cut that down.

pinkypinky

MOD note: I've deleted a number of off-topic posts, including some of mine, in the interest of fairness.

Mollymoo19

spurious wrote: »

Should I perhaps look for a Protestant church marriage too or could the 1861 marriage be a Protestant one?

The 1861 marriage was a non-Catholic marriage, as registration of Catholic marriages only began in 1864. It seems likely this was the same couple, and a mixed marriage.(in my humble opinion).

tabbey

There was nothing illegal about a catholic marrying in an Anglican church. As the established church, it was obliged to facilitate all parishioners, regardless of denomination. Of course the local PP would not have been pleased, and probably would not have recognised it.

There are many instances of cross denominational baptisms and marriages, especially where children of mixed marriages were baptised according to the faith of the parent of that gender.

Always check the register, any transcriber can make an error. I have found errors in familysearch.ie,rootsireland.ie, FMP and irishgenealogy.ie , this is no criticism, as speaking for myself, I too would make mistakes, and have no doubt everyone would.

spurious

I got the cert for the civil marriage - 20th November 1861.

It lists a Kate McKeogh and a Stephen Loughman marrying from what I know for sure is the correct address in the Rathdowney area.

Although her name is spelled McKeogh on the civil cert and McKeon in the Protestant baptism, the father's name and occupation match, plus she named her second child after him, so I'd feel sure they are the same person, despite the spelling.

The cert says they were married according to (what looks like) 'the provisions of the Act 7 and 8 Vic. Ch. 81 on certificate' by the registrar.

It is interesting that they appear to have again married in the Catholic Church in Rathdowney 11th February 1862. To be sure, to be sure.

pinkypinky

I think that's a reasonable assumption to make, based on the evidence.