No leaving cert (or any education) - CV/interview advice

timmythesheep

I am helping a friend write up her CV. In summary:

• She did not sit her leaving cert, left school in 5th year
• Has been working is hospitality industry since 2007 (started whilst still in school)
• First job was of the longest duration of approx 3 years, part and full time
• Since 2010 all jobs have been 1 year or less, a few only a number of months

She is looking to change direction and get out of hospitality. She is 24. I had suggested that the only way to go is some kind of course, training, apprenticeship - but this is falling on deaf ears. If she wants to continue the job search, what is the best way to tackle the no leaving cert (or any formal education) on a CV/interview?

Thanks

Speedwell

Skills based CV. After so many jobs, she has got to have learned something marketable. Since you're probably creating the CVs on the computer, I advise targeting the CV to the individual job she's applying for, tailoring the skills list to the job advertisement.

B.A._Baracus

For what it's worth I have known a few people who do not have their Leaving Cert. I even know one person who does not have their Junior Cert. Want to know what they all have in common? :P

They all lied on their cv's and said they passed the LC and JC. Even going back to when they were 18, all said they passed as it never gets checked. I know it's only a minor detail but a detail that does not have to be truthfully stated. Besides only 18 year olds might get asked for LC results in a job as they could be fresh out of school with no prior work experience. No one asks a 24 year old!

And to mirror what Speedwell said above, just tell her to blow herself out. Truth be told most people do. For example, if she answered phones well she didn't JUST answer phones. No, she obtained an excellent telephone manner while she was a 'Front Office Representative' (fancy term for receptionist)

Konata

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

For what it's worth I have known a few people who do not have their Leaving Cert. I even know one person who does not have their Junior Cert. Want to know what they all have in common? :P

They all lied on their cv's and said they passed the LC and JC. Even going back to when they were 18, all said they passed as it never gets checked. I know it's only a minor detail but a detail that does not have to be truthfully stated. Besides only 18 year olds might get asked for LC results in a job as they could be fresh out of school with no prior work experience. No one asks a 24 year old!

Just wanted to say that I don't think lying is the way to go - it's not worth it if you get caught out. And for the record, I'm 26 and got asked for an original copy of my leaving cert results after I got a job offer at the end of last year.

pillphil

My cv doesn't say anywhere that I passed the leaving cert. It just says under education

1999-2005 Name of School.

Konata wrote: »

Just wanted to say that I don't think lying is the way to go - it's not worth it if you get caught out. And for the record, I'm 26 and got asked for an original copy of my leaving cert results after I got a job offer at the end of last year.

Did the job have a specific point requirement? Accenture, for example, require you to have 400 points in the leaving cert regardless of what you got in college if you want to be part of their graduate analyst programme.
It would make sense someone to want a copy in that scenario, but I've never been asked for leaving cert results in any job I've had.

Speedwell

It's far too late for anyone who isn't professionally established already to lie about their school credentials. My father could, and did; he once admitted to me that he told employers in the US as a brand new immigrant in his early 20s that his former school in Europe was no longer operating (true, it was destroyed during one unfortunate incident during a local revolution). He went on to fib that despite not having the actual records to prove it, he nevertheless had a full engineering degree (stretching the truth quite a lot, he had training and experience for the equivalent, but only from high school and under-the-table work). Since he had a long and successful career as a well-thought-of engineer after that, it obviously wasn't an impediment. I'm 49 and I theoretically could lie about my own credentials since they would have been in the mid 80s and in America, but I was the first generation to have my paper records transferred to microfilm and then on to actual computer databases... no, I wouldn't risk it. Anyone born after me? Your records are on a computer somewhere, almost surely.

That said, I haven't been asked, and I haven't mentioned, my pre-university school record basically since I left university.

Konata

pillphil wrote: »

My cv doesn't say anywhere that I passed the leaving cert. It just says under education




Did the job have a specific point requirement? Accenture, for example, require you to have 400 points in the leaving cert regardless of what you got in college if you want to be part of their graduate analyst programme.
It would make sense someone to want a copy in that scenario, but I've never been asked for leaving cert results in any job I've had.

It had a degree requirement but not a points requirement. I think OP should do just as you did and put down the school they went to and the years and only mention the Leaving Cert if it specifically comes up in an interview. Just don't ever lie would by my advice!

BreadnBuddha

I've never listed secondary school exam results on my CV. I've also interviewed and hired approximately 150 people for a range of roles, from entry level through to senior engineering positions. Not once have I asked for or seen leaving certificate level results listed on their CV's.

The leaving certificate examinations are for all intents and purposes used to grade applicants in their late teens for their next step, be it a university course or a theory intensive trade. Once you've hit your early 20's and have been employed for more than a wet week, they're no longer a significant measure of your ability or likelihood to succeed in a role.

If the OP's friend has been employed since 2007, is 24 years of age (over 23 years old requirement) and has the determination to change career, she should just go for it. Apply as a mature student for a relevant foundation degree and take it from there. Don't be intimidated by not having a leaving cert, it doesn't represent the obstacle teachers would have you believe.

Teyla Emmagan

The OP'S friend doesn't want to go to college.

Whst are they looking for OP? There are a lot of industries that are going to be out of reach without any qualifications whatsoever. Your friend may always be doing semi skilled work with limited hope of progression. Everyone else their age has qualifications coming out their ears these days. There is a lot of competition out there.

In the long run not training in something it's not the best plan. To be recession proof you need valuable skills and to be hard to replace. Especially as you get older. I would really be encouraging your mate to settle on a goal and train towards it, even if if means studying part time. They could end up one of those unfortunate people in their 50s who are let go and never work again otherwise.

BreadnBuddha

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

The OP'S friend doesn't want to go to college.

Whst are they looking for OP? There are a lot of industries that are going to be out of reach without any qualifications whatsoever. Your friend may always be doing semi skilled work with limited hope of progression. Everyone else their age has qualifications coming out their ears these days. There is a lot of competition out there.

In the long run not training in something it's not the best plan. To be recession proof you need valuable skills and to be hard to replace. Especially as you get older. I would really be encouraging your mate to settle on a goal and train towards it, even if if means studying part time. They could end up one of those unfortunate people in their 50s who are let go and never work again otherwise.

Yeah, I know that.

The OP's friend needs to wise up. At 24, they can get into college part time and catch up. Not having a leaving cert is not a barrier, within reason.

If the friend wants a career change without studing or training, well, good luck with that then.

Musicman2000

Plenty of options for Training if you don't want to go the third level route . But do a few courses it will look better with your experience.

Mrs OBumble

OP, what does your friend want to change direction into?

What training / experience did s/he get in hospitality: Presumably customer service - almost every job has aspects of that. What about staff supervision? Security? Stock management? HCCAP? Specialist drinks?

Seriously if she didn't bother getting training in anything related to the industry, then she's most likely looking at minimum wage retail. Pretty much everything else requires some degree of certification.

Mrs OBumble

OP, what does your friend want to change direction into?

What training / experience did s/he get in hospitality: Presumably customer service - almost every job has aspects of that. What about staff supervision? Security? Stock management? HCCAP? Specialist drinks?

Seriously if she didn't bother getting training in anything related to the industry, then she's most likely looking at minimum wage retail. Pretty much everything else requires some degree of certification.