Advice on beginner pistol

PSXDupe

Guys

I am looking for a beginner pistol, currently looking at either a Beretta 87 Target or the Hammerli X-esse.

It will be used to take up Target Shooting.

Looking on the net it seems quite difficult to get additional mags for the Beretta 87T

Can anyone share their experience with either of these pistols

Thanks

cw67irl

There hard to pass either one, The beretta does have a slightly small grip on it so if you have big hands thats something to consider. Look at the Ruger MK3 aswell its another great pistol, It has plenty of aftermarket parts and being an all steel pistol they are indestructible

Wadi14

There are 3 versions of the X-esse,4 if you include the shorter barrel, there's the standard basic model, the IPSC model and the Target model, the IPSC and Target are slightly more refined to the basic model both having different front and rear adjustable sight and more adjustability in the trigger. Target model has the red Olympic type grip, I have the IPSC version and have replaced the standard black grip with the Target grip.
The xesse is a very accurate pistol in the right hands, I have fired the 87 and I'm happy with the xesse Probably the only pistol that could tempt me away from the xesse is the S&W 41, that's until I see the price tag lol.

clivej

PSXDupe wrote: »

Guys

I am looking for a beginner pistol, currently looking at either a Beretta 87 Target or the Hammerli X-esse.

It will be used to take up Target Shooting.

Looking on the net it seems quite difficult to get additional mags for the Beretta 87T

Can anyone share their experience with either of these pistols

Thanks

Of those 2 I found the X-Esse better,
Also look at the Ruger hunter, Buckmark, S&W 22A. All around the same price

Double the price for a S&W 41 or a Feinwerkbau AW93 (the best handgun out there that I've owned and shot)

Forget any of the 1911's they all look cool but shoot sh!t compered with any target handgun.

BattleCorp

I tried the Beretta 87T and found the grip a bit too small for me and I don't have particularly large hands. I found the same with the Smith & Wesson 22A but I was able to get larger wooden grips and I'm happy with it now.

Of the two you spoke about, I'd go with the Hammerli. That said, don't limit yourself to one of those. Try out as many as you can and see what suits you better.

I'll agree with CliveJ, don't go for a 1911 style pistol.

k31

Don't be in a hurry to buy anything. As has been advised try as many pistols as possible to see which one suits you best. Also do avoid the 1911 style pistols , they look good but most don't shoot that accurately and the quality isn't there. Personally, I find the Ruger Mk III an excellent pistol, not too expensive and super quality. Best of luck with your choice.

LB6

And for my 2c worth. Stay miles away from the Ruger Mk II or III. Lovely to shoot, but a PITA to clean!

mick65cm

Lad quick question... where are you looking at the Beretta 87 target. Ive been looking around and cant be got anywhere.

PSXDupe

Courtlough Shooting Grounds

Liam got some in, sold but is waiting on more serial. I also spoke with Sean in Gillilands and he has 3 on the way.

cw67irl

LB6 wrote: »

And for my 2c worth. Stay miles away from the Ruger Mk II or III. Lovely to shoot, but a PITA to clean!

Easy to fix that LB just needs a hammer bushing. Costs about a tenner!

turismo2142

My two cents is that if you're getting into pistol shooting and you're competitive you're either going to;

A) pursue it and try to do as well as you can and will do it for years.

Or

give up after a while as its not for you

If it's a) then you'll probably end up wanting the best which is generally considered to be the s&w model 41. If you buy something cheaper and lighter initially there's a decent chance you'll want to upgrade to the 41. In doing so you'll loose a few hundred in the trade up so why not just get the 41. However, 41s are shocking expensive at the moment. €1800 for a new one. It wasn't that long ago that you could pick one up for not much more than a grand. Demand is high and they're rare.

If the answer is b) then if you've bought a 41 you will definitely get your money back and there will be a que of people willing to take it off your hands.

So either way I think the 41 is the way to go. You'll loose value in any of the other pistols but not the 41.

clivej

turismo2142 wrote: »

My two cents is that if you're getting into pistol shooting and you're competitive you're either going to;

A) pursue it and try to do as well as you can and will do it for years.

Or

give up after a while as its not for you

If it's a) then you'll probably end up wanting the best which is generally considered to be the s&w model 41. If you buy something cheaper and lighter initially there's a decent chance you'll want to upgrade to the 41. In doing so you'll loose a few hundred in the trade up so why not just get the 41. However, 41s are shocking expensive at the moment. €1800 for a new one. It wasn't that long ago that you could pick one up for not much more than a grand. Demand is high and they're rare.

If the answer is b) then if you've bought a 41 you will definitely get your money back and there will be a que of people willing to take it off your hands.

So either way I think the 41 is the way to go. You'll loose value in any of the other pistols but not the 41.

If your going on this advice then get the Feinwerkbau AW93. SO much better than a 41

Sparks

Think you need to specify the kind of pistol shooting you're talking about - certainly the 41 wouldn't be considered the best out there for ISSF shooting, for example...

Sparks

clivej wrote: »

If your going on this advice then get the Feinwerkbau AW93. SO much better than a 41

And there's been better since, though it's still a damn good pistol and one of the best made in the last few decades.

BattleCorp

Sparks wrote: »

And there's been better since, though it's still a damn good pistol and one of the best made in the last few decades.

What is the top of the range ISSF pistol nowadays? Is it the Walter SSP or the Pardini or something different altogether?

Sparks

Probably the SSP-E but you're talking fractions of a percent really. But the SSP is noticably better for most shooters than the AW93 was, just from the way it sits so low in the hand. Picking that thing up... it'd make you think it was easy, it lines up so naturally

A pain to clean though, or so I hear from the lucky sods who have one.

BattleCorp

Sparks wrote: »

Probably the SSP-E but you're talking fractions of a percent really. But the SSP is noticably better for most shooters than the AW93 was, just from the way it sits so low in the hand. Picking that thing up... it'd make you think it was easy, it lines up so naturally

A pain to clean though, or so I hear from the lucky sods who have one.

I've seen a guy try to shoot gallery pistol comps with the Walther SSP a few years ago, but it isn't really suitable for that type of competition. It is more difficult to shoot these type of competitions due to the top loading magazine. They put you at a disadvantage when it comes to quick mag changes.

Really nice pistol though. He said that there was practically no recoil.

Sparks

Yeah, they really are built to a specific set of disciplines. You can shoot most of the ISSF 22 pistol disciplines with one (you could *try* with 50m I suppose, but you'd have about equal chances of winning if you used a pliers to take the round apart and then threw the bullet downrange by hand), but anything that's built around >6 rounds or mag changes, you're going to have fun keeping up with. And even a 6-round rule is going to lead to you doing something iffy to keep up. Not recommended.

turismo2142

Sparks wrote: »

Think you need to specify the kind of pistol shooting you're talking about - certainly the 41 wouldn't be considered the best out there for ISSF shooting, for example...

Forgive me but I assumed we were talking about gallery. I think it's fair to say that it was obvious that he was referring to gallery when he mentioned 87t etc.

And, how shall I put this, those issf pistols wouldn't suit the gallery competition course of fire like the 41 et al when (we hope) the day comes that the five round mag limit is increased....

Which is more or less what sparks had said. I think

so I'm still plugging the 41!!!

BattleCorp

turismo2142 wrote: »

Forgive me but I assumed we were talking about gallery. I think it's fair to say that it was obvious that he was referring to gallery when he mentioned 87t etc.

And, how shall I put this, those issf pistols wouldn't suit the gallery competition course of fire like the 41 et al when (we hope) the day comes that the five round mag limit is increased....

Which is more or less what sparks had said. I think

so I'm still plugging the 41!!!

I know the OP is talking about gallery pistol and I know ISSF pistols aren't suited to it. We both mentioned that. I just sidetracked Sparks there. Sorry.

garrettod

PSXDupe wrote: »

Courtlough Shooting Grounds

Liam got some in, sold but is waiting on more serial. I also spoke with Sean in Gillilands and he has 3 on the way.

Unless somehing has changed in Courtlough, then I'd hardly think thats the best place to go if you want to try a few pistols. Also, do they even have a pistol range these days ... they certianly didn't in times past ?

As the lads above have mentioned, part of your decision making will depend on what sort of pistol shooting you are looking at getting into (and where you live). As you've indicated tha you initially want someting basic (a "beginner pistol"), I'd go for a more popular established pistol as parts will be easily obtained and there's usually a second hand market for them. Pistols like Browning's Buckmark or the Beretta would be included in my thinking here, although others are also worth mentioning.

I'd suggest putting some time in at either Hilltop or Harbour House before you buy anything (sorry I'm not sure what pistol clubs are in easy reach of Cavan btw), as both will be in a position to offer tuition and advice, will have a range of different pistols (including some club pistols which you could try) etc. There is also the obvious follow on benefit of both having a lot of experienced pistol shooters in their respective clubs, who could help out as you progress with your sport assuing you join one of the clubs mentioned.

dc99

I had a GSG 1911, really cool, but could not shoot consistantly well. You'd hit the target, but not in a group of any use.

I then changed to the Hammerli Xesse (IPSC) and absoloulty love it to bits. Very accurate.
I just added the Nills grips on it and it's even better to shoot.

I should have brought the hammerli day one....wasted a year with the gsg....

BattleCorp

dc99 wrote: »

I had a GSG 1911, really cool, but could not shoot consistantly well. You'd hit the target, but not in a group of any use.

I then changed to the Hammerli Xesse (IPSC) and absoloulty love it to bits. Very accurate.
I just added the Nills grips on it and it's even better to shoot.

I should have brought the hammerli day one....wasted a year with the gsg....

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is excellent advice.

Buy once, buy right.

cw67irl

BattleCorp wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is excellent advice.

Buy once, buy right.

+1 Don't always buy the first one you see. I started with a 22a I bought after a quick look over (hadn't even shot it) changed 3 months later.

Its really worth looking at a few options. The 1911s look cool alright but if you plan on competing at all even at a low level you are at a major disadvantage.

Check out the Xesse, Buckmark, Beretta 87t, Ruger Mk Series.

All great guns with a few customisable options!!

PSXDupe

Ended up going with the Hammerli X-esse Sport.

Grant letter arrived today so hopefully will have everything sorted in the next week or so.

dc99

Grant letter is a go - pay for the licence and take the grant letter and the receipt from the post office - dealer should accept this for you to take the FA away
:-)
The sport has the one handed grip fitted? The red striped grip?
In my mind this ales it difficult to shoot - two handed. I'd advise getting a set of ambidextrous grips. Either stock Hammerli ones or the Nills aftermarket ones (like I just got - fantastic - I replaced the originals with these (no won't sell the originals :-) )
Nills cost me about 170-00 posted (outrageous cost for shipping from them....30 yours I think!