Ford fiesta nct repairs

lolo62

Hi,

Im just back from the nct, failed on the following and was wondering if anyone could advise me what I'm looking at paying for these repairs?

brake lines/hoses rear offside and nearside replace
transmission cv joint locking device (needs to be bent apparently?
door sills offside and nearside structural corrosion (nct guy said they need to be welded)

Also when getting oil topped up at Halfords girl said oil was v brown and coolant tank empty so looks like another repair there.


Looking at other threads rust on the sils not a good thing and some people advise scrapping. It's just all four tyres are new enough, Ive just recently taxed if for 3 months and a new battery went in recently too. I find the fiesta a great little car otherwise so would like to hang onto it if possible. It's 20011.25 zetec.

Thanks

colincork

The brake lines and CV lock are standard enough jobs shouldn't cost you too much.

I had to do the rust on my own fiesta last year, nearly every fiesta has it. I got all the rust on both sills cut out and sheet metal welded in for €250.

The biggest worry there is the engine. If the Head gasket is gone aswell I'd say she'll be heading to the scrap yard. Is the engine overheating at all?

Seth Brundle

colincork wrote: »

The biggest worry there is the engine. If the Head gasket is gone aswell I'd say she'll be heading to the scrap yard. Is the engine overheating at all?

By the sounds of it, the nct said nothing about it so I reckon the Halfords girl knew sweet FA!

colincork

kbannon wrote: »

By the sounds of it, the nct said nothing about it so I reckon the Halfords girl knew sweet FA!

The NCT wouldn't tell you if the head gasket was gone they only check the safety of the car not the general condition.

Look under the oil cap for yellow/brown gunk this will tell you if water has gone into the oil.

If you're based anywhere around cork I've a guy that would do all the work and very cheap

TheChizler

Have you ever had an oil change or topped up the coolant?

JohnBoy26

colincork wrote: »

The NCT wouldn't tell you if the head gasket was gone they only check the safety of the car not the general condition.

Look under the oil cap for yellow/brown gunk this will tell you if water has gone into the oil.

If you're based anywhere around cork I've a guy that would do all the work and very cheap

It might be a guide but it won't tell you for sure that the hg is gone. Many cars have gunk under the cap due to a build up of condensation, usually caused by short drives.

savagethegoat

coolant tank looked empty.....surely you would have topped it up immediately. Did you change the oil? (ever)

lolo62

Thanks for the replies, they're very helpful.

No over heating.
Coolant tank was practically empty which surprised me when i went to top up, Halfords girl pointing out oil dirty and mentioning coolant water leaking got me a bit worried but I'm guessing no over heating is a good sign?

Its been a couple of years since I had the oil changed, have been topping up the coolant regularly as a couple of years ago it was overheating due to thermostat problems. Had to drive to the mechanics with bottles of water in the car stopping to top up, was great fun.

Will check the oil cap see if I can spot anything.

lolo62

colincork wrote: »

I had to do the rust on my own fiesta last year, nearly every fiesta has it. I got all the rust on both sills cut out and sheet metal welded in for €250.

Where did you get that done? €250 not as bad as i thought.

Edit... you're in cork

TheChizler

Not changing the oil for a few years would account for it being brown all right! You should change it and the filter every 6 to 12 months, wouldn't cost more than €30-50 to do yourself.

cletus

lolo62 wrote: »

Where did you get that done? €250 not as bad as i thought.

Edit... you're in cork

Corks a lovely spot to visit though. Some great pubs. Sure you could make a weekend out of it

colincork

cletus wrote: »

Corks a lovely spot to visit though. Some great pubs. Sure you could make a weekend out of it

JDM garage on the tramore rd. Literally gave him the fail sheet and came back a week later everything was done

jimmyw

What year is this fiesta?

lolo62

jimmyw wrote: »

What year is this fiesta?

2001

jimmyw

Boards are still hit and miss when it comes to email notifications

Sorry, I didn't see you mentioned the year in your post.
Oh right!....the reason I ask is that we have an 03 fiesta and it was/is leaking coolant a little.I discovered it was coming from the expansion tank itself.I changed it, but it still leaked some, but I think its still leaking from the thermostat housing which on this model is hidden behind the plastic intake manifold (coolant leaks underneath).

I dont know if you have this model of engine in yours though.

I wonder though with the other faults,a bit of coolant leak might be the least of your problems, though it may be fixable, I could be wrong.As others have said, symptoms of a HC leak are mayonnaise on the oil filler, and maybe steam from the exhaust, mucky oil in the expansion tank.

Get the NCT failure points accessed first though.

This is our model, 1.4 duratec.

http://www.askthemechanic.co.uk/images/Duratec%20misfire.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=8465654

lolo62

Hi thought I'd do the courtesy of an update with my fiesta fiasco ��

So got my car to the mechanic with my nct report. Told him it needed to be welded over the phone and that the brake lines/hoses had advanced corrosion. He put the car up to show me the corrosion wasn't advanced at all and that all he needed to do was sand them and coat them instead of taking the car apart.

He looked at the rusted sills and said he would knock out the hole, fill them with fiber glass and that would sort that problem. Charged me €130 all inwhich I was delighted with, and skipped off to the nct for a retest.
Failed on both the sils and the brake lines! Watched the nct guy practically go at the under side of the car with a knife and fork, picking and pulling, brought over another guy they were ages underneath it.

Seemed like his day was made presenting me with the failed report and telling me what should have been done. I pointed out to him that I had paid a mechanic to do the repairs and as far as i was concerned they had been done. I also asked him where did it say on my report exactly what it was the nct wanted done as the repairs. He couldn't say anything and just said go back to my mechanic.

So I'm now off the road. Done with mechanics, nct centre etc its a load of b****x. I feel like drivers like my self on low income driving old cars are being pushed off the road because theres far too much grey area in the whole nct process.
Cant wait to scrap the thing and watch my incomings/outgoings develop a healthy relationship with eachother again ��

Btw...the coolant apparently isn't leaking into the oil at all and the halfords girl doesnt know what she is talking about! Is there some weird thing between mechanics thinking every other mechanic is full of **** and constantly undermining eachother?!

ongarite

At least upload us a photo of your NCT sheet and the state of the rust on the sills to go with this rant!

lolo62

ongarite wrote: »

At least upload us a photo of your NCT sheet and the state of the rust on the sills to go with this rant!

It just says brake lines/hoses advanced corrosion, bodywork primary structure corrosion door sills. Which is kind of bull**** actually because neither of those are observable on the car.
Saw the sills myself there was some rust each side about 4 inches or so. That has since been repaired.

visual

lolo62 wrote: »

Hi thought I'd do the courtesy of an update with my fiesta fiasco ��

So got my car to the mechanic with my nct report. Told him it needed to be welded over the phone and that the brake lines/hoses had advanced corrosion. He put the car up to show me the corrosion wasn't advanced at all and that all he needed to do was sand them and coat them instead of taking the car apart.

He looked at the rusted sills and said he would knock out the hole, fill them with fiber glass and that would sort that problem. Charged me €130 all inwhich I was delighted with, and skipped off to the nct for a retest.
Failed on both the sils and the brake lines! Watched the nct guy practically go at the under side of the car with a knife and fork, picking and pulling, brought over another guy they were ages underneath it.

Seemed like his day was made presenting me with the failed report and telling me what should have been done. I pointed out to him that I had paid a mechanic to do the repairs and as far as i was concerned they had been done. I also asked him where did it say on my report exactly what it was the nct wanted done as the repairs. He couldn't say anything and just said go back to my mechanic.

So I'm now off the road. Done with mechanics, nct centre etc its a load of b****x. I feel like drivers like my self on low income driving old cars are being pushed off the road because theres far too much grey area in the whole nct process.
Cant wait to scrap the thing and watch my incomings/outgoings develop a healthy relationship with eachother again ��

Btw...the coolant apparently isn't leaking into the oil at all and the halfords girl doesnt know what she is talking about! Is there some weird thing between mechanics thinking every other mechanic is full of **** and constantly undermining eachother?!

I'm glad in a way NCT picked up on bogus repair attempt to hide the problem rather than fix it.

The sills are what gives the car strength and if unfortunate to be involved in a crash a bit of fibre putty and covering of paint isn't going to protect you and stop the car crumpling.

Brake lines the pipes are thin and surface rust doesn't take account of pitting that's not easily seen by eye. Emergency stop brake pressure could easily rupture a corroded pipe and all brakes would be lost.

Sanding and repainting is just trying to fool inspection it's not solving anything.
New brake pipes aren't that expensive. Neither would have cutting out the rusted parts of sills and welding in new steel.

It would have been more expensive than the bogus work your mechanic done but was a total waste of money and time as you discovered.

NCT is a safety test your safety and other road users. It shouldn't come down to cheating a safety test and your mechanic should have known this.

jimmyw

I know you are peed off with mechanics right now, but this area of a car is important as its structural to the car, so its important that its solid.You probably wont like this, but try another mechanic as I wouldn't have much faith in your current one.

My sister has a mark 1 Ford KA, which are notorious for rusting in the sill, and it failed the NCT for corrosion in this area some time ago (last year I think).Her mechanic patched it up somehow, and it passed, which I was surprised at, but it did.So it is possible.I didn't see the corrosion, so I don't know how bad it was.


I feel your annoyance which is understandable.

XLR 8

kbannon wrote: »

By the sounds of it, the nct said nothing about it so I reckon the Halfords girl knew sweet FA!

In defence of the girl in Halfords she commented on the brown oil and also noticed an empty coolant bottle. Both are signs of overheating and a coolant leak. The OP is where you should lay your criticism, he owns the car and noticed neither..

porsche boy

lolo62 wrote:

Its been a couple of years since I had the oil changed

Sweet Jesus lad, look after your car a bit better than that will ya.

lolo62

visual wrote: »

I'm glad in a way NCT picked up on bogus repair attempt to hide the problem rather than fix it.

The sills are what gives the car strength and if unfortunate to be involved in a crash a bit of fibre putty and covering of paint isn't going to protect you and stop the car crumpling.

Brake lines the pipes are thin and surface rust doesn't take account of pitting that's not easily seen by eye. Emergency stop brake pressure could easily rupture a corroded pipe and all brakes would be lost.

Sanding and repainting is just trying to fool inspection it's not solving anything.
New brake pipes aren't that expensive. Neither would have cutting out the rusted parts of sills and welding in new steel.

It would have been more expensive than the bogus work your mechanic done but was a total waste of money and time as you discovered.

NCT is a safety test your safety and other road users. It shouldn't come down to cheating a safety test and your mechanic should have known this.

I agree with everything you have said. I was happy to have what was needed done. The problem is I'm not a mechanic.

My issue is if nct are going to hold the driver responsible for the kind of work done and not the mechanic , then hand me a print out of exactly what is needed when giving me the fail report.

Otherwise I'm putting my trust in the paid professional to know what to do on behalf of nct and paying out money on that basis.

Why isn't it regulated properly so that this kind of thing can't happen? That's why I'm off the road now. Can't put another can't into such a dysfunctional system.

jelutong

A panel beater rather than a mechanic would be better option in your case.

jimmyw

For your mechanic to just put filler into the sill is not acceptable. They should be welding metal in there,nothing less.

Now we can't say so well on here as we are not seeing it,but putting filler there is NOT ON. If you can at all,throw up a few pics of the sill and the oil on the dipstick if you can.

EazyD

Fiestas are known for corrosion issues along the sills. Was in the NCT in fonthill yesterday and overheard a lady with the same car failing for this exact reason. I've had sills redone before and there is no easy or quick way about it, the rotten metal needs to come out and be replaced.

It's also worth remembering that any rust on the surface is more than likely only a fraction of what you'll find beneath it (rusts from inside out). Preventing it happening again after a repair requires a good underbody wash every once in a while (especially in winter) to remove salt and grit from every crevice. I think many people underestimate the effects of this on bodywork, even over a short space of time and allow it to fester.

EazyD

EazyD wrote: »

It's also worth remembering that any rust on the surface is more than likely only a fraction of what you'll find beneath it (rusts from inside out).

+million

EazyD wrote: »

Preventing it happening again after a repair requires a good underbody wash every once in a while (especially in winter) to remove salt and grit from every crevice. I think many people underestimate the effects of this on bodywork, even over a short space of time and allow it to fester.

That's the difficult part. Washing the salt from outside helps mainly for cosmetic rust but what really needs to be done in the long term is to protect inside the sills (with Waxoyl or similar). And even then if the rust has already gotten a hold more holes will sprung up every year unless the full outer sills are replaced and properly protected.

The best would be to protect the car when it was new but nobody does that as it would only benefit the 5th owner.

EazyD

samih wrote: »

+million



That's the difficult part. Washing the salt from outside helps mainly for cosmetic rust but what really needs to be done in the long term is to protect inside the sills (with Waxoyl or similar). And even then if the rust has already gotten a hold more holes will sprung up every year unless the full outer sills are replaced and properly protected.

The best would be to protect the car when it was new but nobody does that as it would only benefit the 5th owner.

Yep, should have added that. Dinitrol is usually the best for sealing the underbody as it tends to be a lot neater to apply than waxoil. However on a car with existing structural rust, sealing it will more than likely only trap what rot is already there and possibly even worsen the problem. On a new car though (that you intend to keep for a long time), it is most definitely a worthy investment.

mickdw

Its quite funny how the op has reacted to this dodgy work.
The op themselves picked the craftsman to carry out the repair. Now if the nct people had nominated this guy, I could see your point. They didn't. You choose him probably based on cheapest quote therefore you are responsible or at least it's up to you to bring it back to the guy who did the botched repair.
The fact here is that you brought it to a cowboy for cheap repair and it came straight back and bit you in the ass.
Having failed the car previously, the nct guys were going to look for proof of proper repair. Had you done the botch prior to original test, you had some small chance of passing but certainly not once they knew it needed welding.
Regardless of all that, it's safety critical so they are only saving you from yourself really.

JohnBoy26

People always seem to bring their cars to a mechanic when their car fails on rust. A panel beater is really the best option in these cases, especially if the rust is major like on a will or a wheel arch.

It's hard to argue with the nct in this case. You may have gotten the rust repaired but you didn't get it repaired correctly. It needs to welded for it to pass an nct.

visual

lolo62 wrote: »

I agree with everything you have said. I was happy to have what was needed done. The problem is I'm not a mechanic.

My issue is if nct are going to hold the driver responsible for the kind of work done and not the mechanic , then hand me a print out of exactly what is needed when giving me the fail report.

Otherwise I'm putting my trust in the paid professional to know what to do on behalf of nct and paying out money on that basis.

Why isn't it regulated properly so that this kind of thing can't happen? That's why I'm off the road now. Can't put another can't into such a dysfunctional system.

The only unregulated part was the mechanic who didn't do you any favours
between the rust and coolant loss and lack of servicing it doesn't bow well for your fiesta.

might be better off with something else be careful of fords as rust is a killer on them.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/01-hyundai-accent-hatchback-n-c-t-300416/11726675

This looks a cheap run about with a little NCT left might be worth a look €350
but get someone to check it out as at that price it is all a gamble.

scrap your car and a little haggle it might cost only cost you €250 and you be back on the road.

jimmyw

mickdw wrote: »

The op themselves picked the craftsman. You choose him probably based on cheapest quote therefore you are responsible or at least it's up to you to bring it back to the guy who did the botched repair.
The fact here is that you brought it to a cowboy for cheap repair and it came straight back and bit you in the ass.
Having failed the car previously, the nct guys were going to look for proof of proper repair. once they knew it needed welding.

To be honest, you are making assumptions about the OP, you don't know if he/she was going on the cheapest quote for sure.Its not always clear if when you entrust car repairs to a garage, that they will do a proper job, or just botch it.

I would firmly place the blame on the mechanic.OP, you should go back to them, (if you have any faith in them).I would assume that the NCT people thought that it is possible for a repair, so if so,get the mechanic, or some other to do a proper repair and dont hand over a cent until its done.

The other issues you have with the car can be repaired more easier.

George Dalton

The only one of the three parties that comes out of this with any credit is the NCT.

The OP clearly isn't big on car maintenance.
The mechanic didn't fix the issues highlighted by the NCT, just covered them up.
The NCT werent fooled by the half arsed attempt to fix the car and failed it again on the retest, and rightly so IMO.

lolo62

mickdw wrote: »

Its quite funny how the op has reacted to this dodgy work.
The op themselves picked the craftsman to carry out the repair. Now if the nct people had nominated this guy, I could see your point. They didn't. You choose him probably based on cheapest quote therefore you are responsible or at least it's up to you to bring it back to the guy who did the botched repair.
The fact here is that you brought it to a cowboy for cheap repair and it came straight back and bit you in the ass.
Having failed the car previously, the nct guys were going to look for proof of proper repair. Had you done the botch prior to original test, you had some small chance of passing but certainly not once they knew it needed welding.
Regardless of all that, it's safety critical so they are only saving you from yourself really.

Glad you think it's funny. I don't. I didnt get quotes, I went to the guy I always go to. If the nct had nominated someone to do the work the way they wanted it done, I would have been happy to go there and pay what it costs.
They didnt and as I am not a mechanic I took it to one to carry out the work needed for it to pass nct standards.

What I dont understand here is how I can be held accountable by nct for the standard of work done and not the mechanic? Surely the government dont want people working this way for the same reasons they set the nct up in the first place?

I just think its madness in this day and age that that kind of thing goes on. Ive since looked up the nct guidelines that anyone can download from the site and it clearly says where there is advanced corrosion and the car fails for this, it will fail if filler is used and not welding for the retest. Are mechanics not legally obliged to work from this document? Arent they being monitered and regulated in some way to ensure that they do?

And if I am ultimately responsible for the standard of repairs, why amnt I given the sections from the guidelines on what is and isn't acceptable , so I can tell the mechanic verbatim what he has to do and not get left to find out when its too late?

VeVeX

Surely you don't have to be a mechanic to know that covering up a problem rather than fixing it is not the correct course of action?

I think you're looking for someone to blame rather than chalking it down to wanton obliviousness of common sense and moving on.

jelutong

lolo62 wrote: »

Glad you think it's funny. I don't. I didnt get quotes, I went to the guy I always go to. If the nct had nominated someone to do the work the way they wanted it done, I would have been happy to go there and pay what it costs.
They didnt and as I am not a mechanic I took it to one to carry out the work needed for it to pass nct standards.

What I dont understand here is how I can be held accountable by nct for the standard of work done and not the mechanic? Surely the government dont want people working this way for the same reasons they set the nct up in the first place?

I just think its madness in this day and age that that kind of thing goes on. Ive since looked up the nct guidelines that anyone can download from the site and it clearly says where there is advanced corrosion and the car fails for this, it will fail if filler is used and not welding for the retest. Are mechanics not legally obliged to work from this document? Arent they being monitered and regulated in some way to ensure that they do?

And if I am ultimately responsible for the standard of repairs, why amnt I given the sections from the guidelines on what is and isn't acceptable , so I can tell the mechanic verbatim what he has to do and not get left to find out when its too late?

It's up to you to get the car sorted . Take responsibility for it and stop blaming all and sundry.

EazyD

lolo62 wrote: »

Glad you think it's funny. I don't. I didnt get quotes, I went to the guy I always go to. If the nct had nominated someone to do the work the way they wanted it done, I would have been happy to go there and pay what it costs.
They didnt and as I am not a mechanic I took it to one to carry out the work needed for it to pass nct standards.

What I dont understand here is how I can be held accountable by nct for the standard of work done and not the mechanic? Surely the government dont want people working this way for the same reasons they set the nct up in the first place?

I just think its madness in this day and age that that kind of thing goes on. Ive since looked up the nct guidelines that anyone can download from the site and it clearly says where there is advanced corrosion and the car fails for this, it will fail if filler is used and not welding for the retest. Are mechanics not legally obliged to work from this document? Arent they being monitered and regulated in some way to ensure that they do?

And if I am ultimately responsible for the standard of repairs, why amnt I given the sections from the guidelines on what is and isn't acceptable , so I can tell the mechanic verbatim what he has to do and not get left to find out when its too late?

Bring it to a decent bodyshop/panel beater (many recommendations on here if you search). Ensure the person(s) that will be working on it knows the exact fail points, what needs to be carried out (in your case cutting and welding the areas of corrosion marked on the sheet) and agree a price.

Presumably, a lot of the repair area will not be visible, therefore you could ask for them to email a few quick snaps of the work as its being done to have piece of mind that it's been finished to a good standard.

JohnBoy26

EazyD wrote: »

Bring it to a decent bodyshop/panel beater (many recommendations on here if you search). Ensure the person(s) that will be working on it knows the exact fail points, what needs to be carried out (in your case cutting and welding the areas of corrosion marked on the sheet) and agree a price.

Presumably, a lot of the repair area will not be visible, therefore you could ask for them to email a few quick snaps of the work as its being done to have piece of mind that it's been finished to a good standard.

From what the op said it seems to me like the car is pretty rusty and probably uneconomical to repair. I think that's probably why the mechanic didn't do any proper repair on it.

lolo62

jelutong wrote: »

It's up to you to get the car sorted . Take responsibility for it and stop blaming all and sundry.

OK Joe Duffy

lolo62

Thanks for all the replies. I thought about getting another run around but have had two or three now over the past ten years and just don't have the energy any more for dealing with the nct every year, dealing with mechanics, tax, fluctuating price of petrol etc. not to mention crater sized pot holes and constant road works, going out every second Monday to find my wing mirror dangling.

Now this. Done! I only really have to drive 3 days a week so I have my rambler bus ticket bought. Spraying my bike pink soon and with the money from my scrap I'll put it to a new keyboard. Can feel my stress level going down already

davidglanza

colincork wrote: »

The NCT wouldn't tell you if the head gasket was gone they only check the safety of the car not the general condition.

Look under the oil cap for yellow/brown gunk this will tell you if water has gone into the oil.

If you're based anywhere around cork I've a guy that would do all the work and very cheap

What's his phone number??

mickdw

lolo62 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I thought about getting another run around but have had two or three now over the past ten years and just don't have the energy any more for dealing with the nct every year, dealing with mechanics, tax, fluctuating price of petrol etc. not to mention crater sized pot holes and constant road works, going out every second Monday to find my wing mirror dangling.

Now this. Done! I only really have to drive 3 days a week so I have my rambler bus ticket bought. Spraying my bike pink soon and with the money from my scrap I'll put it to a new keyboard. Can feel my stress level going down already

Certainly a better option than driving a sub standard car.
I hope you keep that bike maintained. With no statutory testing required, god knows what shape it might be in.

jimmyw

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

From what the op said it seems to me like the car is pretty rusty and probably uneconomical to repair. I think that's probably why the mechanic didn't do any proper repair on it.

That may be so, but if that was the case, they should have told the OP that instead of what they did.

jelutong

Who?

lolo62

mickdw wrote: »

Certainly a better option than driving a sub standard car.
I hope you keep that bike maintained. With no statutory testing required, god knows what shape it might be in.

Haha I think the report would have been different one if the car was, as you say 'sub standard'
You better get working on your statutory testing for push bikes so. It is Friday night after all

mickdw

lolo62 wrote: »

Haha I think the report would have been different one if the car was, as you say 'sub standard'
You better get working on your statutory testing for push bikes so. It is Friday night after all

I have my policy on push bikes all wrapped up.
1 Insurance mandatory for cyclist
2 Registration mandatory for cyclist, not the bike but the person.
3 Registration printed large across back of high vis vest which must be worn.

No more cyclists damaging cars in traffic and cycling off into the traffic.