Grant vortex condensing boiler blowing white smoke

herself81

Hi,
I'm a complete novice when it comes to plumbing issues, so I'm hoping someone here might be able to help me. We put in a new grant vortex condensing boiler during the summer and I've noticed when it's on it blows white smoke constantly. Is this normal? Also it comes on and off quite regularly as in it comes on for about a minute and cuts out for two minutes and then back on. Again is this normal? I'd really appreciate it if anyone with knowledge could advise me. Thanks in advance. :-)

aujopimur

The white smoke you talk of is normal condensate, the on/off cycling needs to be checked by your plumbr.

Wearb

White smoke is normal from a condensing boiler.
As for on and off; what size (output) is the boiler? What size is the house? When was it built.

DGOBS

Think of a condensing boiler like a papal election, white smoke= good news, black smoke=bad news

oinkely

Ours does the same - plumes of lovely white condensate.

On the cycling issue - we had ours come on randomly shortly after having it installed. Fixed under warranty as the frost control stat / board was faulty.

A while later it started to cycle a lot, on and off all the time. Plumber figured out that it was because the air intake was blocked by a fence i had put around it. He wasn't too pleased ;-) Anyway, removed the restriction and it has been purring away like a kitten ever since.

oinkely

Ours does the same - plumes of lovely white condensate.

On the cycling issue - we had ours come on randomly shortly after having it installed. Fixed under warranty as the frost control stat / board was faulty.

A while later it started to cycle a lot, on and off all the time. Plumber figured out that it was because the air intake was blocked by a fence i had put around it. He wasn't too pleased ;-) Anyway, removed the restriction and it has been purring away like a kitten ever since.

herself81

Wearb wrote: »

White smoke is normal from a condensing boiler.
As for on and off; what size (output) is the boiler? What size is the house? When was it built.

Thanks for reply.
The house is about 2000sq feet. Built about 2001. So you say that the smoke is normal, even if it is there for the entire time it is on? The output 90-120.

herself81

Thanks for all the replies everyone. So the general consensus is white smoke is good.

The on off thing isn't normal. Now after the boiler was installed last summer we did notice that on off thing and we said it to the plumber and he said that it was normal?! To me I wouldn't have thought it normal because it means the boiler is working hard to keep up the heat? Yes no?

Wearb

Do you have a recent service report ? How many radiators are turned on when it goes through those short cycles ? Does it short cycle when starting from cold (after being off for let's say 8 hours) with all the radiators on?

herself81

Wearb wrote: »

Do you have a recent service report ? How many radiators are turned on when it goes through those short cycles ? Does it short cycle when starting from cold (after being off for let's say 8 hours) with all the radiators on?

So we've only just installed it last summer and the plumber sent off a report thingy to grant for the guarantee. So I've nothing to hand. All I do remember is the efficiency was at 99℅ I could check with my husband later to see if he took a copy of it.
All the radiators are on when it short cycles and there are 16 radiators. I think after it warms up then it short cycles.

Wearb

It sounds like you don't have a boiler interlock.

How is your heating controlled?
Eg Is it on a timer and then a couple of room stats? Is the house zoned?

Your boiler may be over fired (set at too high output for requirements) also. That is why I was asking about service report, to see what nozzle and pump pressure it was setup at.

herself81

Wearb wrote: »

It sounds like you don't have a boiler interlock.

How is your heating controlled?
Eg Is it on a timer and then a couple of room stats? Is the house zoned?

Your boiler may be over fired (set at too high output for requirements) also. That is why I was asking about service report, to see what nozzle and pump pressure it was setup at.

So we have a timer and the house is zoned upstairs and downstairs. We asked the electrician to put in a thermostat and he put it where there was a switch for turning on and off the heating upstairs and that's all the thermostat switch still does just turns the heating on and off it doesn't control the temperature. ( we moved into the house only last may). I'll look for the service report from my husband and let you know what it says. Thanks for your help.:)

Wearb

I don't understand how your thermostat turns on and off the heating without controlling the temperature.

How are your zones controlled?

In the normal course of events, how do you turn on your heating? Is it by using the stat, a timer or some other switch?

herself81

Wearb wrote: »

I don't understand how your thermostat turns on and off the heating without controlling the temperature.

How are your zones controlled?

In the normal course of events, how do you turn on your heating? Is it by using the stat, a timer or some other switch?

Lol! We've inherited a funny heating system. So we've a timer and we updated the timer to those new timer systems where we can turn the zoned areas on and off at the timer. Originally the zoned areas were controled by a switch downstairs and a separate switch upstairs. When we updated the timer we asked the electrician to put in a thermostat. So he used the switch that used to turn on the heating upstairs and turned that into the thermostat switch. However it doesn't work as a thermostat. It just turns the heating on and off upstairs like the original switch. Does that make sense? The timer turns the heating on firstly. No other switch does that.

herself81

herself81 wrote: »

Lol! We've inherited a funny heating system. So we've a timer and we updated the timer to those new timer systems where we can turn the zoned areas on and off at the timer. Originally the zoned areas were controled by a switch downstairs and a separate switch upstairs. When we updated the timer we asked the electrician to put in a thermostat. So he used the switch that used to turn on the heating upstairs and turned that into the thermostat switch. However it doesn't work as a thermostat. It just turns the heating on and off upstairs like the original switch. Does that make sense? The timer turns the heating on firstly. No other switch does that.

I just got the service notes and oil pump pressure 9 bar and nozzle angle 80 degrees and nozzle size 0.85. Is that what you were looking for?

Wearb

As you describe it, it should be fairly easy to put in a few working stats that would improve efficiency. You also need to have the thermostat controlling the boiler.

I really don't understand, why your stat doesn't work as a stat. It would have been very easy to do.

Wearb

herself81 wrote: »

I just got the service notes and oil pump pressure 9 bar and nozzle angle 80 degrees and nozzle size 0.85. Is that what you were looking for?

Yes that is what I needed. Your boiler is set at mid position and its output can be increased, or decreased. Without knowing the insulation values of your house etc., it is hard to know whether it is set to correct output. Know your BER?

Do you have combustion readings?

In any case, you should have the things mentioned in my previous post seen to before anything else.

herself81

Wearb wrote: »

Yes that is what I needed. Your boiler is set at mid position and its output can be increased, or decreased. Without knowing the insulation values of your house etc., it is hard to know whether it is set to correct output. Know your BER?

Do you have combustion readings?

In any case, you should have the things mentioned in my previous post seen to before anything else.

Thanks for the advice. I will get the electrician back to that stat then. Not sure about the boiler stat.I assumed there is one there?
Would combustion readings be under another heading? The BER is C1.

Wearb

I didnt mention Boiler stat. It will of course have one.

2000Sq ft, zoned and C1, I would be inclined to set boiler to its lowest setting.

Combustion readings, should be in same place as efficiency readings and contain CO, CO2, O2 Flue temp etc. readings.

You didn't say how the zones were controlled?

Dtp1979

What size is your boiler? Your nozzle is set to 31kw on a vortex 90/120
Sounds like it's set to high to be honest. The boiler is prob to big for your house. Get it set to 90.

Wearb

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What size is your boiler?

90/120

herself81

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What size is your boiler?

90-120 is that what you are looking for?

Dtp1979

Ye sorry I coped it as I text.

herself81

Wearb wrote: »

I didnt mention Boiler stat. It will of course have one.

2000Sq ft, zoned and C1, I would be inclined to set boiler to its lowest setting.

Combustion readings, should be in same place as efficiency readings and contain CO, CO2, O2 Flue temp etc. readings.

You didn't say how the zones were controlled?

OK so readings are as follows
02 5.3
Co 8
Co2 11.6
Ratio 0.0001
Tem net 17
Tem flue 51
EFF net 99.2%
Xs air 34.0
Is that that you were looking for?
The zones ate controlled on the timer.

herself81

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What size is your boiler? Your nozzle is set to 31kw on a vortex 90/120
Sounds like it's set to high to be honest. The boiler is prob to big for your house. Get it set to 90.

The only thing I have on nozzle is size 0.85 and angle 80degrees. Is that how you worked out 31kw?

Wearb

herself81 wrote: »

OK so readings are as follows
02 5.3
Co 8
Co2 11.6
Ratio 0.0001
Tem net 17
Tem flue 51
EFF net 99.2%
Xs air 34.0
Is that that you were looking for?
The zones ate controlled on the timer.

Those settings are good. Were they on a printout or hand written? I only ask because anything can be written, but printout not so easily manipulated.

Anyway my previous suggestions should go a long way to sorting out the short cycling, along with efficiency and comfort.

herself81

Wearb wrote: »

Those settings are good. Were they on a printout or hand written? I only ask because anything can be written, but printout not so easily manipulated.

Anyway my previous suggestions should go a long way to sorting out the short cycling, along with efficiency and comfort.

I know what you mean. I was thinking the same but they are on a print out.
So you're saying to put in more stats and one to control temperature of the boiler. That would be a job for an electrician, yes?

Dtp1979

herself81 wrote: »

I know what you mean. I was thinking the same but they are on a print out.
So you're saying to put in more stats and one to control temperature of the boiler. That would be a job for an electrician, yes?

An electrican or a plumber who understands heating controls and does his own wiring on them.

Wearb

herself81 wrote: »

I know what you mean. I was thinking the same but they are on a print out.
So you're saying to put in more stats and one to control temperature of the boiler. That would be a job for an electrician, yes?

Ideally:
3 zones. Upstairs, downstairs and hot water.

A stat on each zone that controls it's zone valve, which in turn controls the boiler. Last part very important.

A 3 zone timer which will call on each zone as required.

This will give you good control and there is a grant (still there afaik ) for doing this.

The boiler has it's own stat, which gives none of the control that the above will give.

Well worth doing. Especially when going through grant route, as this guarantees it will be done to spec.

herself81

Wearb wrote: »

Ideally:
3 zones. Upstairs, downstairs and hot water.

A stat on each zone that controls it's zone valve, which in turn controls the boiler. Last part very important.

A 3 zone timer which will call on each zone as required.

This will give you good control and there is a grant (still there afaik ) for doing this.

The boiler has it's own stat, which gives none of the control that the above will give.

Well worth doing. Especially when going through grant route, as this guarantees it will be done to spec.

Thanks very much for the that. We already have a three zone timer-water, upstairs, downstairs. We've only one stat- upstairs and as I said I don't think it works. So we need to fix that, another stat for downstairs and another one for the water. Am I right? ALa job for an electrician yes?
Thank you so much for your help. Very much appreciated. :-)

Wearb

Follow dtp (above) advice when hiring. Explain that you are going for the grant.

@Dtp1979. Do you know if there is still a grant for this?

herself81

Dtp1979 wrote: »

An electrican or a plumber who understands heating controls and does his own wiring on them.

Sorry I didn't see that. Thanks for that. :-) I've learned a lot tonight!

herself81

Wearb wrote: »

Follow dtp (above) advice when hiring. Explain that you are going for the grant.

@Dtp1979. Do you know if there is still a grant for this?

Thanks I didn't see dtp's advice. I'll look into the grant. I know it was incorporated when updating the boiler. I didn't realise there was a stand alone grand for updating the controls.

Dtp1979

herself81 wrote: »

Thanks I didn't see dtp's advice. I'll look into the grant. I know it was incorporated when updating the boiler. I didn't realise there was a stand alone grand for updating the controls.

@wearb, yes the grant is still available. I think it's 600 for controls.

@herself81, whatever grant you got had nothing to do with the boiler. There is no grant for boiler upgrade. It's only for controls upgrade or boiler and controls upgrade.

herself81

Dtp1979 wrote: »

@wearb, yes the grant is still available. I think it's 600 for controls.

@herself81, whatever grant you got had nothing to do with the boiler. There is no grant for boiler upgrade. It's only for controls upgrade or boiler and controls upgrade.

Thanks DTP. Yes, sorry that's what i meant, a boiler and controls upgrade. I think it was 700euro. Didn't realise that there was just a controls grant. Will look into it. Thanks so much for the help and advice.

Dtp1979

herself81 wrote: »

Thanks DTP. Yes, sorry that's what i meant, a boiler and controls upgrade. I think it was 700euro. Didn't realise that there was just a controls grant. Will look into it. Thanks so much for the help and advice.

Are u saying you already got a grant for the boiler? I'm not following, sorry

herself81

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Are u saying you already got a grant for the boiler? I'm not following, sorry

No sorry. We looked into the grant option for boiler and controls upgrade but didn't go the grant route in the end.