present for my boyfriend

mille100piedi

I found this box on a German web site

https://www.dictum.com/en/tools/woodworking-metalworking/workshop-accessories-toolkits/tool-sets/718812/dictum-tool-carrier-cabinet-making-interior-work-equipped-43-items

could anybody advise if it is made of good quality tools and if it is suitable for a person that want to start traditional woodworking?
he will mainly build boxes, serving tray, towel hanger and small piece of furniture useful for the house.
Unfortunately I don't know anything about woodworking and there are so many tools and I don't have idea which ones are the basic tools
thanks

woodturner

Seems quite expensive for whats in it. I know the Japanese chisels could be worth up to 150 but the other basic tools could be picked up cheaply. He wouldn't need the carrier as he could use that as his first project.
Narex chisels are quite good value for money. After that he'd need a good mallet, marking out tools etc

recipio

Its a bit like buying a car for somebody else - you will never get it quite 'right'. A cordless drill from a quality brand like Makita might be a better bet ?

jack of all

I've bought from Dictum in the past and while they do carry nice gear that kit is very expensive- half that budget would get a nice starter set of tools from Axminster in the UK or Dieter Schmid in Germany. I don't have any Japanese chisels but I'd imagine they'd be tricky enough to sharpen and maintain for a beginner- I'd second the recommendation on Narex- I have a couple and they're excellent.

BreadnBuddha

Does he have any woodworking tools now?

How about space to work? Shed, garage, utility room or where will he be able to make a few bits?

The reason I ask is that I'm pretty sure folks can suggest a kit of specific tools ideally suited to his workspace and your budget, if you can give just a little more information.

Quite importantly, is this something he's going to stick with, or just a thing to try and see if he enjoys it?

the_pen_turner

tools of that level and quality are for high end carpenters and cabinet makers
the average hobby or tradesman wouldn't need tools like that.

I think you would be better off buying a decent set of Stanley, bahco, brand tools.
they are good enough for someone starting out . they will be abused until he learns to use them properly

the_pen_turner

tools of that level and quality are for high end carpenters and cabinet makers
the average hobby or tradesman wouldn't need tools like that.

I think you would be better off buying a decent set of Stanley, bahco, brand tools.
they are good enough for someone starting out . they will be abused until he learns to use them properly

mille100piedi

recipio wrote: »

Its a bit like buying a car for somebody else - you will never get it quite 'right'. A cordless drill from a quality brand like Makita might be a better bet ?

exactly! we have already a cordless drill, we have just finished to decorate our house and we have several power tools

mille100piedi

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Does he have any woodworking tools now?

How about space to work? Shed, garage, utility room or where will he be able to make a few bits?

The reason I ask is that I'm pretty sure folks can suggest a kit of specific tools ideally suited to his workspace and your budget, if you can give just a little more information.

Quite importantly, is this something he's going to stick with, or just a thing to try and see if he enjoys it?

unfortunately our space is very small and we do most of our job in the living room. He is very creative and he did amazing things with wood just with a few and very cheap tools!

BreadnBuddha

mille100piedi wrote: »

unfortunately our space is very small and we do most of our job in the living room. He is very creative and he did amazing things with wood just with a few and very cheap tools!

I'll put a suggestion list together for you tomorrow evening. You don't need to spend a hell of a lot to get started. To be honest, a lot of what's in the kit you listed is nice but there are a fair few tools I'd consider quite pointless or of disappointing quality.

What's a comfortable and realistic budget? Does he have a decent claw hammer, hand saw and square already? How about a hand plane?

mille100piedi

the_pen_turner wrote: »

tools of that level and quality are for high end carpenters and cabinet makers
the average hobby or tradesman wouldn't need tools like that.

I think you would be better off buying a decent set of Stanley, bahco, brand tools.
they are good enough for someone starting out . they will be abused until he learns to use them properly

we already built several things in our home, we built our own kitchen, the table was a fire door I just didn't like it and when my boyfriend went home he found the door lying down over some kind of support and we decided to build the table. I really hated the fire door, but as table it is very sturdy! we are not professional and we didn't have professional tools, but I am confident that if we have better tools we can create more professional looking items!

endacl

https://subscribe.finewoodworking.com/magazine/theme/ppc/source/W1031PPC?utm_source=google-ppc&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=sub&gclid=CNaRs5Xx4coCFQae2wodaVULcw

How about a subscription? Let him pick up the tools he needs as he goes?

mille100piedi

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

I'll put a suggestion list together for you tomorrow evening. You don't need to spend a hell of a lot to get started. To be honest, a lot of what's in the kit you listed is nice but there are a fair few tools I'd consider quite pointless or of disappointing quality.

What's a comfortable and realistic budget? Does he have a decent claw hammer, hand saw and square already? How about a hand plane?

Thank you, it will be great, I am doing a very intensive course on hand tools for wood working at the moment and I think you are right we don't need some tools in the kit. we do have claw hammer and saw and square already. we don't have an hand plane. which one should I buy?

mille100piedi

endacl wrote: »

https://subscribe.finewoodworking.com/magazine/theme/ppc/source/W1031PPC?utm_source=google-ppc&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=sub&gclid=CNaRs5Xx4coCFQae2wodaVULcw

How about a subscription? Let him pick up the tools he needs as he goes?

He is not going to buy any tool, he is a type of guy that he can do everything with very few tools and he hate shopping. I am the one that buy the tools/machine and after a while, if I am lucky and they are the right tools, he will start to use them!I want to learn as well, so I will use them

BreadnBuddha

mille100piedi wrote: »

Thank you, it will be great, I am doing a very intensive course on hand tools for wood working at the moment and I think you are right we don't need some tools in the kit. we do have claw hammer and saw and square already. we don't have an hand plane. which one should I buy?

A No. 4 Stanley smoothing plane. A plane for lifelong use. Buy the real thing, not a copy nor a cheaper Handyman version.

Also look up Bahco chisels, with shatterproof handles. 1/4", 1/2", 3/4" & 1" (6,12,18 & 26mm) are perfectly good enough. Easy to sharpen, hold an edge and can be hit with a normal hammer if need be.

2 Record/Irwin type C or G clamps, 8" size.

A good quality Tenon saw. 13TPI, 12". Stanley Fatmax are comfortable to use. Also check for versions by Bahco etc.

A mitre box might be helpful.

A decent set of screwdrivers, not the electricians type. Pick a well known brand and something in the midrange price-wise.

A brad awl. Flat blade tip.

A good quality tape measure. Stanley classic type with a shiny metal body and a metal scale, not a crappy cheap special.

Cork sanding block and a selection of sandpapers to get started.

Evo-Stik wood glue, green bottle for furniture making, blue for outdoors stuff.

A good quality dust mask. Look for 3M brand.

A good Stanley craft/paring knife.

Everyone will have their own ideas of course, but these few things will cost about half the price of that kit and you'd get a lot of work done with it. It'll also be a starter set of tools that will last a lifetime and time and experience will help you decide what to add in the future as your skills develop.

recipio

Sounds like he is a good handyman not a cabinet maker so he doesn't need Japanese chisels etc.
All woodwork needs crosscutting and ripping (cutting sheets and wood on the length ) so I'd be looking at a good miter saw and track saw if funds permit.

..Brian..

It really depends on what tools you have already but for getting into traditional woodwork here is a list of what I would call essential and where I would buy them.

1) A Stanley / Record No.4 smoothing plane. Buy it from eBay. Take your time and don't pay more than €20 plus postage which will usually be about €10 to Ireland. You may need to clean it up a bit and you will have to sharpen it but that's part of the fun! These old planes are proper high quality that you will not find in a modern Stanley and have already lasted a life time, with a bit of TLC they will happily last another lifetime. All this without spending €200 - €300 per plane on Lie Nielsons or the like.

2) A Veritas Crosscut Carcass Saw. IMO cheap back saws are rubbish to use and will leave you more frustrated than anything else. The Veritas saw is a great saw and won't break the bank like a Lie Neilson or Bad Axe for example. This saw is more than capable of rip cutting for tenons and dovetails which is why I say get this one first. I used it for everything for months before I bought the rip cut dovetail variation as well. If your budget allows, buy this one now also.

3) A good cast iron stock combination square is essential. Cheap aluminium squares will not stay square for long, you need a heavy accurate one. This Stanley from eBay is a great piece of kit that will last a lifetime.

4) A marking knife is also essential for accurate work.

5) A good mortise gauge like this. You want one where the mortise marking pins are wound by a thumb screw on the end as this will make life much easier for accurately setting it up.

6) Similarly, you will want a simple marking gauge so you can leave the mortise gauge set. This will do fine.

7) A set of bevel edge chisels will do just about everything you need at the start. You don't need to spend a fortune to begin with, this set will be fine once you flatten the back and sharpen and polish them. Later you can start to buy really nice chisels if you want to spend €50 per chisel but to start with, these will do nicely.

8) One of these panel beating mallets are great for chisel work and the soft face is great for assembly as it won't damage the wood.

9) All these chisels and plane irons will need initial flattening and regular sharpening. You can spend big money on diamond plates or Japanese water stones but again, to get started, something like this will do perfectly well.

10) Clamps. This is probably where you will spend the most money in traditional working. You can never have enough clamps! I would definitely start out with at least 4 quick release clamps like these and another maybe 6 F-clamps. A good solid vice is also one of the most important tools you will need, I paid £50 for this one and would highly recommend it.

That list, excluding clamps and vise, will give you a great start and cover just about all the bases for about ~€335. Including all the clamps I mentioned will add another ~€170 bringing the total up to ~€500.

If you want to go fully traditional and prepare you stock with hand tools also, you will need two hand saws, one rip cut and one cross cut. For cross cutting any of the typical €20 ish hand saws you see in hardware shops will do. For rip cutting though you will need something a little bit more specialised. One of these would be a great start but will cost about €80. You can look on eBay for vintage had saws and get a good deal, but from my experience, it's a lot harder to tune up an old saw and getting it working well than it is a hand plane, so I'd personally buy a new saw.

You will also need to buy more hand planes. At the very least, you will a No.5 jack plane but realistically you will probably want to add a No.4 1/2, another No.5 to turn into a scrub plane, a No.5 1/5 and a No.7 jointer.

Eventually, to complete the joinery planes you will also want a No. 71 router, and a plough plane. Although, I'd try get a router plane fairly early as it's an incredibly useful tool.

Then you can start looking for moulding planes! It certainly adds up but seriously, the first 9 items on the list for €330 will allow you to do everything with practice and patience.

the_pen_turner

the best thing he needs is a decent bench or set of trestles . if you cant work comfortably and securely then even the best tools will be a waste.
you probably don't have the room for a proper wooden bench but even a work mate is better than using an old table or chair.

the_pen_turner

the best thing he needs is a decent bench or set of trestles . if you cant work comfortably and securely then even the best tools will be a waste.
you probably don't have the room for a proper wooden bench but even a work mate is better than using an old table or chair.

mille100piedi

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

A No. 4 Stanley smoothing plane. A plane for lifelong use. Buy the real thing, not a copy nor a cheaper Handyman version.

Also look up Bahco chisels, with shatterproof handles. 1/4", 1/2", 3/4" & 1" (6,12,18 & 26mm) are perfectly good enough. Easy to sharpen, hold an edge and can be hit with a normal hammer if need be.

2 Record/Irwin type C or G clamps, 8" size.

A good quality Tenon saw. 13TPI, 12". Stanley Fatmax are comfortable to use. Also check for versions by Bahco etc.

A mitre box might be helpful.

A decent set of screwdrivers, not the electricians type. Pick a well known brand and something in the midrange price-wise.

A brad awl. Flat blade tip.

A good quality tape measure. Stanley classic type with a shiny metal body and a metal scale, not a crappy cheap special.

Cork sanding block and a selection of sandpapers to get started.

Evo-Stik wood glue, green bottle for furniture making, blue for outdoors stuff.

A good quality dust mask. Look for 3M brand.

A good Stanley craft/paring knife.

Everyone will have their own ideas of course, but these few things will cost about half the price of that kit and you'd get a lot of work done with it. It'll also be a starter set of tools that will last a lifetime and time and experience will help you decide what to add in the future as your skills develop.

thank you very much, we bought a cordless drill in argos, does it suit the woodworking or I have to buy other screwdrivers?

mille100piedi

..Brian.. wrote: »

It really depends on what tools you have already but for getting into traditional woodwork here is a list of what I would call essential and where I would buy them.

1) A Stanley / Record No.4 smoothing plane. Buy it from eBay. Take your time and don't pay more than €20 plus postage which will usually be about €10 to Ireland. You may need to clean it up a bit and you will have to sharpen it but that's part of the fun! These old planes are proper high quality that you will not find in a modern Stanley and have already lasted a life time, with a bit of TLC they will happily last another lifetime. All this without spending €200 - €300 per plane on Lie Nielsons or the like.

2) A Veritas Crosscut Carcass Saw. IMO cheap back saws are rubbish to use and will leave you more frustrated than anything else. The Veritas saw is a great saw and won't break the bank like a Lie Neilson or Bad Axe for example. This saw is more than capable of rip cutting for tenons and dovetails which is why I say get this one first. I used it for everything for months before I bought the rip cut dovetail variation as well. If your budget allows, buy this one now also.

3) A good cast iron stock combination square is essential. Cheap aluminium squares will not stay square for long, you need a heavy accurate one. This Stanley from eBay is a great piece of kit that will last a lifetime.

4) A marking knife is also essential for accurate work.

5) A good mortise gauge like this. You want one where the mortise marking pins are wound by a thumb screw on the end as this will make life much easier for accurately setting it up.

6) Similarly, you will want a simple marking gauge so you can leave the mortise gauge set. This will do fine.

7) A set of bevel edge chisels will do just about everything you need at the start. You don't need to spend a fortune to begin with, this set will be fine once you flatten the back and sharpen and polish them. Later you can start to buy really nice chisels if you want to spend €50 per chisel but to start with, these will do nicely.

8) One of these panel beating mallets are great for chisel work and the soft face is great for assembly as it won't damage the wood.

9) All these chisels and plane irons will need initial flattening and regular sharpening. You can spend big money on diamond plates or Japanese water stones but again, to get started, something like this will do perfectly well.

10) Clamps. This is probably where you will spend the most money in traditional working. You can never have enough clamps! I would definitely start out with at least 4 quick release clamps like these and another maybe 6 F-clamps. A good solid vice is also one of the most important tools you will need, I paid £50 for this one and would highly recommend it.

That list, excluding clamps and vise, will give you a great start and cover just about all the bases for about ~€335. Including all the clamps I mentioned will add another ~€170 bringing the total up to ~€500.

If you want to go fully traditional and prepare you stock with hand tools also, you will need two hand saws, one rip cut and one cross cut. For cross cutting any of the typical €20 ish hand saws you see in hardware shops will do. For rip cutting though you will need something a little bit more specialised. One of these would be a great start but will cost about €80. You can look on eBay for vintage had saws and get a good deal, but from my experience, it's a lot harder to tune up an old saw and getting it working well than it is a hand plane, so I'd personally buy a new saw.

You will also need to buy more hand planes. At the very least, you will a No.5 jack plane but realistically you will probably want to add a No.4 1/2, another No.5 to turn into a scrub plane, a No.5 1/5 and a No.7 jointer.

Eventually, to complete the joinery planes you will also want a No. 71 router, and a plough plane. Although, I'd try get a router plane fairly early as it's an incredibly useful tool.

Then you can start looking for moulding planes! It certainly adds up but seriously, the first 9 items on the list for €330 will allow you to do everything with practice and patience.

Thank you for writing down the list, I am a bit confused about the planes. We will buy wood from shops like B&Q and the wood is already smooth, do we really need a plane to smooth the wood surface? Or we need just a small plane to refine the joints?Also I don't understand the difference between the router and the plough planes. Which one can make a groove in the wood?Does the moulding planes make grooves along to other moulding option?

..Brian..

It depends on the quality of the work you want to produce. If you buy planed timber from B&Q or anywhere it will have planer marks from the machine and it may also have other scuffs or splinters etc. You still need to hand plane it to get a great finish. Also if you're only going to buy pre cut and planed timber, you're soon going to run into obstacles as you're limited to the sizes the wood is machined to. If you need to change any of the dimensions of the wood you will need to plane it again afterwards to remove the saw marks. You will also need to plane your joinery after it's fit to get a good finish. Basically, a No.4 hand plane is absolutely essential for traditional hand tool woodwork. However, the No.4 will handle 95% of the jobs you need it for so don't worry too much about the other planes to begin with, you can grow into them and build up your collection over time as need arises and you see fit.

A router plane can be used to make groves flat but you need to chisel them out first and finish it with the router. It will make the depth of the groove even and consistent throughout. It can also be used to fine tune tenon cheeks and have the parallel to the work which is a massive help it getting everything nice and tight and accurate, and square!

A plough plane will cut the groove and make it a consistent depth at the same time but it cannot be used on tenon cheeks which is why I would prioritise the router plane first.

Moulding planes do exactly that. The create decorative mouldings on your work, round overs, beads, coves, roman ogees etc. They are a one trick pony though so I wouldn't go spending money on them to begin with.

Calahonda52

mille100piedi wrote: »

... the table was a fire door I just didn't like it and when my boyfriend went home he found the door lying down over some kind of support and we decided to build the table. I really hated the fire door....

The mind boggles here...... Part B Fire safety

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1640,en.pdf